Is Gog/Magog War=Armageddon War

[Guest Jesse]

All christians are not automatically chosen. 

The lip worshippers must go through the test which is the tribulation.rev11. and must pass the test.

Some of our brothers in irac are now persecuted. they will not become muslems for Christ sake.

They are the future saints. We need to learn from them,because it will come to all christians.

We will be seen as rebels.that needs to be done away with.

 

Christ will come as a thief  to the sleepers.

But the ones with the knowledge, can tell when He is coming. Just read rev11. 

After the two witnesses are killed, and then revived and taken up.

That same hour an earth quake and 7000died. Then QUICKLY THE 7TH TRUMPET WILL SOUND.

The day and hour no one knows.

 

jesse.

[Salty]

Your theories are so wet, I have put on boots to answer this.

 

 

Jesus' pretrib coming will not be a surprise to His bride, because we will be EXPECTING Him. And we will be watching for Him. However. Posttribers and those walking in darkess will not be expecting Him so will be caught totally be surprise. What will they get? "Sudden destruction" that will come on ALL left behind. What will those WATCHING get? They will get raptured, and "get to live together with Him" in heaven.

 

I know why you think that, it's because of who you've been listening to, charlatans that trick souls with their pre-trib rapture ideas. In Ezek.13 God said He is against the pastors that preach for His people to fly to save their souls.

 

Yet we KNOW Enoch and ELijah flew. It is scriptural. Ever sing that song. "I'll Fly Away?"

I don't listen to charlatans. I study my bible.

 

Look at what Paul said again in that 1 Thess.5:4 verse. He showed the coming of the day of the Lord, which is when Jesus returns, will be as a thief, but to whom? To those in 'darkness'. The true faithful of Christ's servants who wait for His return are not... in darkness that that day should overtake us 'as a thief'.

 

Exactly: His bride will be WATCHING for His pretrib coming. This does not mean they know when He will come, for "no man knows." But we will be expecting Him.

 

Likewise in Rev.16:15 Jesus is giving that same kind of warning. It's those who will not 'watch' to keep their 'garments' that His coming will be "as a thief" upon, not His faithful Church that will continue to make a stand for Him waiting for His return to end the coming tribulation.

 

You must learn to differentiate the bride from the church, because much of the "church" will be left behind at His pretrib coming. You will not be expecting His pretrib coming, so will not be watching, and will be left behind. ONLY those left behind will have to "make a stand" during the days of great tribulation.

 

"But wait a minute", you might say, "that all goes against what Jesus said that no man knows the day or hour"! Very correct that no man knows the day or hour of Christ's coming.. We don't know the day nor the hour, we, His Faithful Church, only know the events to occur leading up... to His return which He and His Apostles gave us, and not the specific day or hour of His return.

 

Yes, we are watching the events of today closely, such as the 4 blood red moons. They will probably turn out to be the final fulfillment of the Joel 2 prophecy. Since that is the start of the TRUE "day of the Lord," I believe the pretrib rapture is very close.

 

Of course for those left behind, they can watch as easy trumpet judgement comes, then see the abomination take place. Then most of them will either take the mark or lose their life. The ONLY way to heaven and to the marriage and supper will be the pretrib rapture or losing one's head.

 

Have you really ever wondered why the Pre-trib Rapture Churches don't teach Christ's and His Apostle's warnings about a specific coming Pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem to play God The Son? Since the basis of their Pre-trib secret Rapture theory is that the Church is raptured prior to the tribulation, they have to say that Pseudo-Christ event is for the Jews, and not upon Christ's Church. How convenient.

 

Does the truth bother you? Actually, I DO teach about the coming Beast and False Prophet. But the truth is, the Bride will be in heaven and will not be concerned with the Beast. In fact, and in truth, it is the JEWS still expecting their Messiah's first coming.

 

If the believer is not aware per Scripture like Matt.24:23-26 from our Lord Jesus that a Pseudo-Christ is to come first to deceive, then they may well be deceived by that false one coming in the role of Christ, and truly think he is our Lord Jesus, when that one will be a FAKE. Brethren that are taken in by that deception, in that kind of spiritual 'darkness', will already think Jesus has returned, and everything is just hunky-dory.

 

What is far more scary: those left behind will be faced with terrible thirst, hunger, and fear of losing their head. Many may take the easy way out and take the mark. This is the REAL danger, not your fantacy. NO true believer will be deceived. READ YOUR BIBLE! Your theory is all wet! Do you really think a true believer would think their God would be behind such murder? Only a demon possessed person would think they were doing God a favor by murdering a believer.

 

Yet when our True Lord Jesus Christ returns later to destroy that Pseudo-Christ, what emotion will overcome those deceived brethren in darkness? Jesus' coming to them will be just how a thief takes one by surprise breaking into one's house at midnight. Those deceived brethren will be taken totally by surprise, because they will have thought Jesus had already returned, when they instead fell into deception by believing the Pseudo-Christ is Jesus.

 

Complete myth: human imagination with no scripture to back it.

 

Why don't you just study your bible and believe it? Jesus did not include Luke 21:36 just to fill in space. It was just for YOU and others like you. Just go ahead and ignore that verse - and wait and see your outcome.

 

LAMAD

 

 

You obviously have yet to understand just what it is our Lord Jesus warned to 'watch' for.

 

1 Thess.5

⁶ Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

⁷ For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

⁸ But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

 

What did Paul mean by not falling asleep but instead watching and being sober? How does one "sleep in the night" and become "drunken in the night" like he said?

 

He's relating that directly to our Lord Jesus' parable of the goodman of the house at the end of Matt.24.

 

It is not only about remaining in a state of 'expecting' Christ's coming. It's about staying awake and sober watching to make sure the thief doesn't break in. If the believer instead sleeps or is drunk in the night it means to be deceived along with those who don't watch and remain sober.

 

Matt.24

⁴³ But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

 

Is there a "thief" that's actually coming for the end of days prior to our Lord Jesus' coming? YES! It's the coming Pseudo-Christ who comes first. Falling away to worship that false-Christ is to not have remained 'sober' and awake waiting for our True Lord Jesus' coming later. That's what His warning there is about, because He specifically gave the warning to not allow man to deceive us at the start of that Matt.24 chapter, and then warns us about the coming Pseudo-Christ prior to our  Lord Jesus' coming.

[Salty]

I wonder what kind of deception you are talking about here? The truth is most of the church is in some kind of deception to some degree or another. The very fact that we have so many denominations says we are deceived to some extent. If you listen to this "ultimate grace" nonsense that is growing rapidly these days, you know they are deceived.

 

What if a believer CHOOSES to just walk right out of the Father's hand? We came in by an act of our will - so what if someone wills to walk away from God?  What if someone gets deep enough into sin they just wish to remain? What if a believer just won't let go of unforgiveness?

What if a believer just wants to remain in a certain lifestyle God hates? (I could go on and on.)

 

Do WE as believers have any say in this?

 

LAMAD

 

 

See my later response to him.

[Montana Marv]

Salty

 

So it appears that you/we can lose your/our salvation; is that right?  So if someone has un-confessed sin in their life and they die, they go to hell, right.  Or if someone did not say God forgive me of my sins when they were Baptized, they missed the boat.  Or if someone dies believing in the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine, they have been deceived and should go to hell, right.  Yet they endured to their end.  I see faith plus works as an entry into the Kingdom, False Doctrine. Plus, you have no idea of what this time of great distress will really be like, yet, you think you can endure it.  I doubt you would make it through the lions and tigers in the arena.  Many Christians have already bit the dust in the times of the Roman Empire.  Many were burned alive on crosses, yet they did not give up their faith.  So don't give me this "God will protect me to the end of the Trib".  You do not know what tomorrow will bring.  You have no idea of who will die or who will live during this time.  So the Post-Trib Rapture doctrine will only have effect on the two or three who make it out alive.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[iamlamad]

 

What if a believer CHOOSES to just walk right out of the Father's hand? We came in by an act of our will - so what if someone wills to walk away from God?  What if someone gets deep enough into sin they just wish to remain? What if a believer just won't let go of unforgiveness?

What if a believer just wants to remain in a certain lifestyle God hates? (I could go on and on.)

 

Do WE as believers have any say in this?

 

LAMAD

 

 

Did someone finally settle the free will vs. predestination debate?  I missed it.

 

I guarantee it is settled in heaven!  The truth is, there are many in hell today that were once born again. Jesus has taken people to hell and shown such people, and explained why they were there. One for example, was a thief. but believed her stealing was just a "little" sin. Now she knows the truth.

 

LAMAD

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

 

Here's the "garments" idea I was referring to from what our Lord Jesus warned us, His Church, within the 6th vial timing...

 

Rev.16

¹⁵ Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

 

That's the matter we were speaking about in the previous posts about the time of the Pseudo-Christ and how many brethren will be deceived. We know that Rev.16:15 verse can only... be to believers of His Church, because He was talking about keeping your Salvation while waiting on His coming. Notice He does not say those are completely lost who don't watch and thus lose their "garments" of Salvation. Instead He said those will "walk naked" in shame, which is in the spiritual sense.

 

Salty

 

That is really nonsense;  We cannot loose our Salvation according to John 10:27-30 - My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.  I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.  My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Fathers hand.  I and the Father are one.  Jesus has sheep (Us) and they/we follow Him,  How can they then be deceived if they follow Jesus?  Impossible.

 

Those who are deceived by the A/C are non believing Israel, many of whom are/will be His elect.  These are not Christians (The Bride follows Christ).  No where in Scripture does it say the Bride follows anyone else.  No one can take the Bride/Us out of the Fathers hand.  No one can take the Bride/Us out of Jesus Christ's hand.

 

If someone is deceived, it is not the Bride.  We have already been purchased out of the marketplace of sin by Christ.  We have been redeemed, How then can we be deceived?

 

In Christ

Montana marv

 

 

...

 

Per His parable of the ten virgins, remember He closes the door on the five foolish virgins. The timing He gave within that parable is for the very end of this world, the eleventh hour before midnight that represents the day of His coming. For His Church in this last generation today, He gave a special warning to not be deceived, because of the coming Pseudo-Christ working a level of wonders and miracles on earth to deceive that has never happened before on earth, nor will ever again.

 

Why would you write of this parable of the marriage? THose who believe in a posttrib coming will MISS that marriage and supper, unless they get there by losing their head. They will be guests.  The bride will have been there in heaven for the 7 years.

 

You are right about the deceived part: Jesus warned again and again about that.  How amazing then that so many are deceived even today.

 

LAMAD

[iamlamad]

All christians are not automatically chosen. 

The lip worshippers must go through the test which is the tribulation.rev11. and must pass the test.

Some of our brothers in irac are now persecuted. they will not become muslems for Christ sake.

They are the future saints. We need to learn from them,because it will come to all christians.

We will be seen as rebels.that needs to be done away with.

 

Christ will come as a thief  to the sleepers.

But the ones with the knowledge, can tell when He is coming. Just read rev11. 

After the two witnesses are killed, and then revived and taken up.

That same hour an earth quake and 7000died. Then QUICKLY THE 7TH TRUMPET WILL SOUND.

The day and hour no one knows.

 

jesse.

Jesse, your chronology is not quite right. Verses 11:4-13 or so are written as a parenthesis. The two witnesses begin their testimony 3 1/2 days before the midpoint of the week, and will be killed just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ends the week.

 

LAMAD

[iamlamad]

 

Your theories are so wet, I have put on boots to answer this.

 

 

Jesus' pretrib coming will not be a surprise to His bride, because we will be EXPECTING Him. And we will be watching for Him. However. Posttribers and those walking in darkess will not be expecting Him so will be caught totally be surprise. What will they get? "Sudden destruction" that will come on ALL left behind. What will those WATCHING get? They will get raptured, and "get to live together with Him" in heaven.

 

I know why you think that, it's because of who you've been listening to, charlatans that trick souls with their pre-trib rapture ideas. In Ezek.13 God said He is against the pastors that preach for His people to fly to save their souls.

 

Yet we KNOW Enoch and ELijah flew. It is scriptural. Ever sing that song. "I'll Fly Away?"

I don't listen to charlatans. I study my bible.

 

Look at what Paul said again in that 1 Thess.5:4 verse. He showed the coming of the day of the Lord, which is when Jesus returns, will be as a thief, but to whom? To those in 'darkness'. The true faithful of Christ's servants who wait for His return are not... in darkness that that day should overtake us 'as a thief'.

 

Exactly: His bride will be WATCHING for His pretrib coming. This does not mean they know when He will come, for "no man knows." But we will be expecting Him.

 

Likewise in Rev.16:15 Jesus is giving that same kind of warning. It's those who will not 'watch' to keep their 'garments' that His coming will be "as a thief" upon, not His faithful Church that will continue to make a stand for Him waiting for His return to end the coming tribulation.

 

You must learn to differentiate the bride from the church, because much of the "church" will be left behind at His pretrib coming. You will not be expecting His pretrib coming, so will not be watching, and will be left behind. ONLY those left behind will have to "make a stand" during the days of great tribulation.

 

"But wait a minute", you might say, "that all goes against what Jesus said that no man knows the day or hour"! Very correct that no man knows the day or hour of Christ's coming.. We don't know the day nor the hour, we, His Faithful Church, only know the events to occur leading up... to His return which He and His Apostles gave us, and not the specific day or hour of His return.

 

Yes, we are watching the events of today closely, such as the 4 blood red moons. They will probably turn out to be the final fulfillment of the Joel 2 prophecy. Since that is the start of the TRUE "day of the Lord," I believe the pretrib rapture is very close.

 

Of course for those left behind, they can watch as easy trumpet judgement comes, then see the abomination take place. Then most of them will either take the mark or lose their life. The ONLY way to heaven and to the marriage and supper will be the pretrib rapture or losing one's head.

 

Have you really ever wondered why the Pre-trib Rapture Churches don't teach Christ's and His Apostle's warnings about a specific coming Pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem to play God The Son? Since the basis of their Pre-trib secret Rapture theory is that the Church is raptured prior to the tribulation, they have to say that Pseudo-Christ event is for the Jews, and not upon Christ's Church. How convenient.

 

Does the truth bother you? Actually, I DO teach about the coming Beast and False Prophet. But the truth is, the Bride will be in heaven and will not be concerned with the Beast. In fact, and in truth, it is the JEWS still expecting their Messiah's first coming.

 

If the believer is not aware per Scripture like Matt.24:23-26 from our Lord Jesus that a Pseudo-Christ is to come first to deceive, then they may well be deceived by that false one coming in the role of Christ, and truly think he is our Lord Jesus, when that one will be a FAKE. Brethren that are taken in by that deception, in that kind of spiritual 'darkness', will already think Jesus has returned, and everything is just hunky-dory.

 

What is far more scary: those left behind will be faced with terrible thirst, hunger, and fear of losing their head. Many may take the easy way out and take the mark. This is the REAL danger, not your fantacy. NO true believer will be deceived. READ YOUR BIBLE! Your theory is all wet! Do you really think a true believer would think their God would be behind such murder? Only a demon possessed person would think they were doing God a favor by murdering a believer.

 

Yet when our True Lord Jesus Christ returns later to destroy that Pseudo-Christ, what emotion will overcome those deceived brethren in darkness? Jesus' coming to them will be just how a thief takes one by surprise breaking into one's house at midnight. Those deceived brethren will be taken totally by surprise, because they will have thought Jesus had already returned, when they instead fell into deception by believing the Pseudo-Christ is Jesus.

 

Complete myth: human imagination with no scripture to back it.

 

Why don't you just study your bible and believe it? Jesus did not include Luke 21:36 just to fill in space. It was just for YOU and others like you. Just go ahead and ignore that verse - and wait and see your outcome.

 

LAMAD

 

 

You obviously have yet to understand just what it is our Lord Jesus warned to 'watch' for.

 

1 Thess.5

⁶ Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

⁷ For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

⁸ But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

 

What did Paul mean by not falling asleep but instead watching and being sober? How does one "sleep in the night" and become "drunken in the night" like he said?

 

He's relating that directly to our Lord Jesus' parable of the goodman of the house at the end of Matt.24.

 

It is not only about remaining in a state of 'expecting' Christ's coming. It's about staying awake and sober watching to make sure the thief doesn't break in. If the believer instead sleeps or is drunk in the night it means to be deceived along with those who don't watch and remain sober.

 

Matt.24

⁴³ But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

 

Is there a "thief" that's actually coming for the end of days prior to our Lord Jesus' coming? YES! It's the coming Pseudo-Christ who comes first. Falling away to worship that false-Christ is to not have remained 'sober' and awake waiting for our True Lord Jesus' coming later. That's what His warning there is about, because He specifically gave the warning to not allow man to deceive us at the start of that Matt.24 chapter, and then warns us about the coming Pseudo-Christ prior to our  Lord Jesus' coming.

 

You are still confused. The pretrib rapture is found clearly in the bible. Your preconceived glasses are preventing you from seeing it. You also have the day of the Lord wrong, and much of the rest of Revelation.Of course you are free to believe what you will, but if I was you, I would start over with Acts 1 & 2. You cannot bypass those 2 chapters and hope to understand scripture.

 

He showed the coming of the day of the Lord, which is when Jesus returns

 

WRONG: His coming will be the TRIGGER for the Day of the Lord. You should camp out on 1 Thes. 5 until you get it. Remember, there will be a SUDDENLY - which will be the sudden rising from those dead in Christ. Then in pico second later those who are alive and in Christ will rise.

 

So at this suddenly, two groups get two different results. Those in Christ get raptured. The sinners get sudden destruction. Note that the sudden destruction earthquake, as seen in detail in REv. 6 only moves the mountains out of their place, PROVING beyond any shadow of doubt this is a different earthquake than the 7th vial earthquake, which proves how wrong your theories are. The 6th seal is exactly where God put it, as the START of the Day of the Lord.

 

Did you ever take time to study Joel 1, where the cattle were perplexed because they had no pasture, and Joel called that event as a part of the Day of the Lord? We see that prophecy fulfilled with the first trumpet judgment, proving yet again that the Day begins with the 6th seal, and following that will be the entire 70th week - which again proves how far off from the truth your theories are.

 

I want to ask you a serious question: are you watching for His coming TODAY? Are you expecting Him to come any day now?

 

Of course you will have to answer no.  Enough said.

 

LAMAD

[Salty]

Salty

 

So it appears that you/we can lose your/our salvation; is that right?  So if someone has un-confessed sin in their life and they die, they go to hell, right.  Or if someone did not say God forgive me of my sins when they were Baptized, they missed the boat.  Or if someone dies believing in the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine, they have been deceived and should go to hell, right.  Yet they endured to their end.  I see faith plus works as an entry into the Kingdom, False Doctrine. Plus, you have no idea of what this time of great distress will really be like, yet, you think you can endure it.  I doubt you would make it through the lions and tigers in the arena.  Many Christians have already bit the dust in the times of the Roman Empire.  Many were burned alive on crosses, yet they did not give up their faith.  So don't give me this "God will protect me to the end of the Trib".  You do not know what tomorrow will bring.  You have no idea of who will die or who will live during this time.  So the Post-Trib Rapture doctrine will only have effect on the two or three who make it out alive.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

That kind of thinking has nothing to do with what I showed from those Revelation Scriptures. Why must you rely on men's doctrines you've been taught instead of reading the simplicity of those Scriptures?

[Salty]

 

 

 

...

 

Per His parable of the ten virgins, remember He closes the door on the five foolish virgins. The timing He gave within that parable is for the very end of this world, the eleventh hour before midnight that represents the day of His coming. For His Church in this last generation today, He gave a special warning to not be deceived, because of the coming Pseudo-Christ working a level of wonders and miracles on earth to deceive that has never happened before on earth, nor will ever again.

 

Why would you write of this parable of the marriage? THose who believe in a posttrib coming will MISS that marriage and supper, unless they get there by losing their head. They will be guests.  The bride will have been there in heaven for the 7 years.

 

You are right about the deceived part: Jesus warned again and again about that.  How amazing then that so many are deceived even today.

 

LAMAD

 

 

The parable of the ten virgins of Matt.25 is not a parable of marriage. And there is no such thing as a pre-trib secret rapture.

 

All of Christ's Church still alive today will go through the great tribulation He taught, excepting those of us who die beforehand of some other cause.