Where is the Body of Christ in the Millennium?

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,

 

Thanks for that information. It makes sense & I appreciate learning more of Hebrew & Greek.

 

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Argosy,

 

As regards the rebellion only at the end of the Milennium, there could be others as the Lord suggested.

 

`And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King. the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them. And if the family of Egypt does not go up or enter , then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the Lord smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.` (Zech. 14: 17 - 19)

 

And what sort of practice do you see us doing on earth at that time?

 

 

Marilyn. 

Edited November 4, 2014 by Marilyn C

[Enoch2021]

 

 

Is there an answer to the question?

 

Will "The Church", in their Spiritual Bodies, be in Jerusalem with Christ for a Thousand Years?

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, PeteWaldo.

 

 

Shalom, PeteWaldo.
 

 

My only answer to all this is, with no discussion nor debate ... the body of Christ will be right where He wants them to be.

There is no debate if you are talking about a tiny remnant.
But do you really think the body of Christ is right where Jesus wants it, when nearly half of the church must believe the other nearly half of the church - to necessarily be nearly 100% in error regarding their understanding of the book of Revelation (after chapter 3) - since a 1900 year gulf separates the two popular views?
What might be revealed when we take the traditional historicist approach to Bible prophecy, of all Christians and Jews to Old Testament prophecy, and the first 1800 years of the church and those great men of God of the Reformation, to New Testament prophecy?
Someone might get the wrong impression that you can square your claim with 2 Thessalonians 2:3, in spite of what has been going on in the institutional "church" and its apostasy and interfaith pluralism.

 

 
Just a quick thought: What if BOTH popular views are both correct and incorrect? The amillennial preterist view is correct about the tribulation starting in the first century, but it is wrong about it ending in the first century. The premillennial futurist view is correct about the tribulation ending in the future at the return of the Messiah, but it is wrong about it beginning 3.5 or 7 years before that point. And, the only way that could be true is if the tribulation is NOT restricted to a single Seven (“Week”) of years.

 

 
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints
 
It isn't unusual for Christians to completely ignore the church tradition of historicism as your post does, even though all Jews and Christians take the historicist approach to Old Testament Bible prophecy. So too are the terms "preterism" and "amillennialism" often married as they were codependent, but a historicist can be amillennial too. Available evidence suggests that for the first 1800 years of church history, the body of Christ approached New Testament prophecy through historicism as well. After all, wouldn't there would need to be a very compelling reason to take other than a uniform approach to all Bible prophecy?
 
Do you think it is a mere coincidence that the two pop-eschatologies that you cite, that basically rule a near unanimity of the "church", BOTH necessarily preclude even considering, that Muhammad could be THE false prophet of the book of Revelation? This even as our brothers and sisters are being beheaded and martyred for the witness of Jesus by the false prophet Muhammad's kingdom "beast", around so much of the world (and particularly throughout John's "whole world"), by people who must deny the Son of God and DISbelieve His crucifixion and thus reject His shed blood, as artlcles of their faith in the false prophet Muhammad alone. This even as there is yet another production, in the tens of millions of dollars of profiteering, "Left Behind" series industry.
It isn't like we weren't warned:
 
2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4  And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 
The 19th century alone brought us:
 
Mary Baker Eddy - Christian Science
Joseph Smith - LDS Mormon
Charles Taze Russell - Jehovah's Witness
William Miller - Millerites associated into SDA
Ellen White - SDA Seventh Day Adventists
Edward Irving - Irvingites
John Nelson Darby - dispensationalism futurism - Darby from Irving, to church via C.I. Scofield
Dr. John Thomas - Christadelphians
Hegel - Fichte - Maurice - Idealism school of eschatology
Madame Blavatsky - Theosophical Society - satanist acquaintence of Westcott and Hort
Westcott and Hort - These two men penned a minority Greek text that is the basis of the majority of modern bible versions.
Pope Pius IX - 1854 dogma of the "immaculate conception"
 
Though certainly not limited to the 19th century with Jesuit Luis Alcazar's 17th and Jesuit Francisco Ribera's 16th century counter-reformation eschatologies, that the reformers didn't buy, that were popularized in a little different form in the 20th century.

 

 

Now, regarding historicism instead of preterism, that’s fine. Make the substitution because it works the SAME WAY! I KNOW that historicism is also amillennial. Whenever one takes an allegorical view of Scripture and sees prophetic Scripture fulfilled in historic events, the end result is the same. One has said that the prophetic Scripture is already fulfilled rather than yet to be fulfilled.

 

See, I’m not a big fan of ANYTHING “traditional!” Being a Messianic Jew, I can see how “traditional” Jewish thought is JUST AS BAD as “traditional” Christian thought! They’ve been wrong about the Messiah for almost 2,000 years now. Do you really want to follow in their footsteps and be wrong for just under 2,000 years, too?!

 

It’s not the Preterism to which I object the most; it’s the amillennialism to which I object! It’s the allegorical interpretation of Scripture to which I object! Furthermore, I agree with you about ALL of the above persons who’ve been responsible for misleading so many thousands of Christians! However, just for the record, I don’t hold to the opinions of ANY of them.

[ARGOSY]

Hi Argosy,

 

As regards the rebellion only at the end of the Milennium, there could be others as the Lord suggested.

 

`And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King. the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them. And if the family of Egypt does not go up or enter , then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the Lord smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.` (Zech. 14: 17 - 19)

 

And what sort of practice do you see us doing on earth at that time?

 

 

Marilyn. 

 

Yes there could be other rebellions. Between God and us, that will be sorted out.

 

The practice could be regarding ruling and judging.  With an eternity of new projects and interesting galaxies , its possible that we continue to rule with Christ over projects widespread across the universe and even into other dimensions. We cannot even begin to imagine what God has in store for us.

[Marilyn C]

Amen bro. Argosy,
 

 

 

`With an eternity of new projects and interesting galaxies , its possible that we continue to rule with Christ over projects widespread across the universe and even into other dimensions. We cannot even begin to imagine what God has in store for us.`

 

I would like to continue our discussion on this topic when we have a thread on the purpose of the Body.

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Marilyn C

[Marilyn C]

Hi Enoch2021,

 

We agree on so much however there is one point I would like to discuss with you. On the thread `Here we go again!....` #173 you said....

 

 

 `Us "Pre-Great Tribbers" know that the Second Coming and the Rapture are 2 Entirely Different Events. One HE comes for HIS Church...the Second; HE comes with HIS Church".

 

Now I have been waiting for someone to bring up this point here on this thread, but no one has, (I don`t think) so I will highlight it here. We agree that Christ comes for His Body but have you ever thought on the last part of your statement - `He comes with His Church.?` Do you have scriptural proof of this?

 

 

Look forward to discussing this with you Enoch.

 

Blessings, Marilyn.



 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Enoch2021.

 

 

 

 

Is there an answer to the question?

 

Will "The Church", in their Spiritual Bodies, be in Jerusalem with Christ for a Thousand Years?

 

 

YES!!! The problem is in the phrase “Spiritual Bodies.” The spiritual bodies mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15 are NOT “non-physical bodies.” They are indeed “PHYSICAL bodies,” just as Yeshua`s body was a physical body after His resurrection! Furthermore, there is a significant comparison between the two Greek terms “psuchikos” (translated as “natural”) and “pneumatikos” (translated as “spiritual”). These are adjectives that are formed from the nouns, “psuchee” (usually translated as “soul”) and “pneuma” (usually translated as “spirit”), respectively. Thus, the confusion in the terms “psuchikos” and “pneumatikos” is rooted in the confusion in the terms “psuchee” and “pneuma!"

 

If one believes that the “soul” and the “spirit” are the other two parts of a human being (with “body” being the third), that one will continue to perpetuate the confusion. When one simply understands that “pneuma” means “wind” or a “blowing,” and that ...

 

Genesis 2:7

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

KJV

 

B-reshiyt 2:7

7 Vayiytser YHWH Elohiym et haa’aadaam `aafaar min haa’adaamaah vayipach b’apaayv nishmat chayiym vayhiy haa’aadaam l-nefesh chayaah:

JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh

 

7 Vayiytser = 7 And-formed

YHWH = YaHuWH/the LORD

Elohiym = God

et = (following is the direct object)

haa’aadaam = the-man/the-Adam

`aafaar = of-dust

min = from

haa’adaamaah = the-red-ground

vayipach = and-puffed

b’apaayv = in-his-nostrils

nishmat = a-puff/a-vital-breath

chayiym = of-life

vayhiy = and-became

haa’aadaam = the-man/the-Adam

l-nefesh = to-a-breathing-creature/to-a-breather

chayaah: = living:

 

7 And-formed YaHuWH/the LORD God the-man/the-Adam of-dust from the-red-ground and-puffed in-his-nostrils a-puff/a-vital-breath of-life and-became the-man/the-Adam to-a-breathing-creature/to-a-breather living:

 

Then, one will come to the realization that “soul” is something MUCH simpler than the current definition of that word! YHWH formed the Adam of dust from the Adamah - the red ground - the red earth, and puffed into his nostrils a vital breath - a kick-start, and the Adam became a living, breathing creature! A living BREATHER!

 

To supplement this verse, look at the next time that “nishmat” is used, the END of the first earth and its first sky - the FLOOD:

 

Genesis 7:21-22

21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

KJV

 

B-reshiyt 7:21-22

21 Vayigva` kaal bazaar haaromees `al haa’aarets baa`owf uwVabheemaah uwVahayaah uwVkhaal hasherets hashoreets `al haa’aarets vkhol haa’aadaam:

22 Kol asher nishmat ruwach chayiym b’apaayv mikol asher bechaaraaVaah meetuw:

JPS Hebrew-Greek Tanakh

 

21 Vayigva` = 21 And-died

kaal = all

baasaar = flesh

haaromees = the-moving/creeping/crawling

`al = upon

haa’aarets = the-earth/land

baa`owf = in-the-birds

uwVabheemaah = and-in-the-cattle

uwVahayaah and-in-the-beasts/living-creatures

uwVkhaal = and-in-all

hasherets = the-creeping/crawling-thing

hashoreets = that-creeps/crawls

`al = upon

haa’aarets = the-earth/land

vkhol = and-all

haa’aadaam: = the-human-beings:

22 Kol = 22 All

asher = whose

nishmat = puff

ruwach = of-wind

chayiym = of-life

b’apaayv = in-its-nostrils

mikol = from-all

asher = whose

bechaaraaVaah = in-the-dry-(land)

meetuw: = died:

 

21 And-died all flesh the-moving/creeping/crawling upon the-earth/land in-the-birds and-in-the-cattle and-in-the-beasts/living-creatures and-in-all the-creeping/crawling-thing that-creeps/crawls upon the-earth/land and-all the-human-beings:

22 All whose puff of-wind of-life in-its-nostrils from-all whose in-the-dry-(land) died:

 

Thus, the psuchee - the nefesh - the “soul” is the body WITH the pneuma - the ruach - the “spirit” in it. Thus, in mathematical terms, “soul” = “body” + “spirit.” And, literally, it is...

 

“breather” = “body” + “breath."

 

(Sorry, I completed the inner thought but forgot to finish the outer thought.)

 

In 1 Corinthians 1t:40-49,

 

1 Corinthians 15:40-49

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

KJV

 

Let’s zero in on verses 44-48:

 

Korinthinos A 15:44-48

44 Speiretai sooma psuchikon, egeiretai sooma pneumatikon. Ei estin sooma psuchikon, estin kai pneumatikon.

45 Houtoos kai gegraptai; egeneto ho prootos anthroopos Adam eis psucheen zoosan, ho eschatos Adam eis pneuma zoo-opoioun.

46 All’ ou prooton to pneumatikon alla to psuchikon, epeita to pneumatikon.

47 Ho proto anthroopos ek gees choikos, ho deuteros anthroopos ex ouranou.

48 Hoios ho choikos, toioutoi kai hoi choikoi, kai hoios ho epouranios, toioutoi kai hoi epouranioi.

The Greek New Testament (UBS)

 

44 Speiretai = 44 It-is-sown

sooma = a-body

psuchikon, = breathing,

egeiretai = it-is-raised

sooma = a-body

pneumatikon. = windy/blowing/blasting.

Ei = If

estin = there-is

sooma = a-body

psuchikon, = breathing,

estin = there-is

kai = and/also

pneumatikon. = windy/blowing/blasting.

45 Houtoos = 45 So

kai = and/also

gegraptai; = it-is-written,

egeneto = was-made

ho = The

prootos = first

anthroopos = man

Adam = Adam

eis = into

psucheen = a-breather

zoosan, = living,

ho = the

eschatos = last

Adam = Adam

eis = into

pneuma = a-wind

zoo-opoioun. = life-giving.

46 All’ (Alla) = 46 But

ou = not

prooton = first

to = the

pneumatikon = windy/blowing/blasting

alla = but

to = the

psuchikon, = breathing,

epeita = thereafter/after-that

to = the

pneumatikon. = windy/blowing/blasting.

47 Ho = 47 The

prootos = first

anthroopos = man

ek = out-from

gees = earth/land

choikos, = dirty,

ho = the

deuteros = second

anthroopos = man

ex = out-from

ouranou. = (the)-sky.

48 Hoios = 48 Like/As

ho = the

choikos, = dirty,

toioutoi = such/truly-this/of-this-sort

kai = and/also

hoi = the

choikoi, = dirty-(ones),

kai = and/also

hoios = like/as

ho = the

epouranios, = (one)-from-above-the-sky,

toioutoi = such/truly-this/of-this-sort

kai = and/also

hoi = the

epouranioi. = (ones)-from-above-the-sky.

 

44 It-is-sown a-body breathing, it-is-raised a-body windy/blowing/blasting. If there-is a-body breathing, there-is and/also windy/blowing/blasting.

45 So and/also it-is-written, was-made The first man Adam into a-breather living, the last Adam into a-wind life-giving.

46 But not first the windy/blowing/blasting but the breathing, thereafter/after-that the windy/blowing/blasting.

47 The first man out-from earth/land dirty, the second man out-from (the)-sky.

48 Like/As the dirty, such/truly-this/of-this-sort and/also the dirty-(ones), and/also like/as the (one)-from-above-the-sky, such/truly-this/of-this-sort and/also the (ones)-from-above-the-sky.

 

Therefore, the REAL difference is that this blasting body is far STRONGER than a mere breathing body! It doesn’t just take a deep breath; it blows like the wind! It doesn’t just breathe to keep itself alive; it has a LIFE-GIVING wind, just like the Master does!

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retro & Enoch,

 

Just a thought here.

 

Our spiritual body is `flesh & bones` as Jesus said to His disciples, (Luke 24: 39) but it will have no blood. Since the life of the body today is in the blood, it follows, I believe, that a new life principle must animate the spiritual body. Our resurrection bodies will be like our Lord`s. (Phil. 3: 20, 21)

 

`The last Adam became a life giving spirit.` (1 Cor. 15: 45)

`Christ....will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory,....`  (Phil. 3: 21)

 

Marilyn.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn C.

 

Hi Retro & Enoch,

 

Just a thought here.

 

Our spiritual body is `flesh & bones` as Jesus said to His disciples, (Luke 24: 39) but it will have no blood. Since the life of the body today is in the blood, it follows, I believe, that a new life principle must animate the spiritual body. Our resurrection bodies will be like our Lord`s. (Phil. 3: 20, 21)

 

`The last Adam became a life giving spirit.` (1 Cor. 15: 45)

`Christ....will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory,....`  (Phil. 3: 21)

 

Marilyn.

 

You’re right! And, I believe that the answer to that is found in John:

 

John 1:1-9

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

KJV

 

Why can’t this be LITERAL?! We KNOW that Yeshua` glowed in the transfiguration; we know that He will glow with the light of God when He returns! I believe that the LIFE IS THE LIGHT - THE GLORY (BRIGHTNESS) OF GOD! No more will our body need blood to carry oxygen (the essential part of our breath) to the various parts of our body to provide a necessary component for the respiration process of converting stored sunlight to energy for our cells; we will get our energy DIRECTLY from God!