Retrobyter Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,598 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,448 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Shalom, Enoch2021 and ARGOSY. ============================================================================================================= Moving on................ You probably should have followed your own advice here, but alas... The beauty about my point of view, is that those neutrals who follow this discussion can actually read Rev 11:15 and decide for themselves if its referring to the second coming: If they can Fog a Mirror, they should be able to unwind these baseless "a priori" adherence's in less than a Planck Time. The second coming and events surrounding the day of the Lord are often mentioned in Revelation, not just once. Another Strawman (Fallacy). When is The "Actual" Second Coming??....Revelation 19. We can talk all day about the events leading to building the Empire State Building... but that's quite a bit different than the "Actual Day" construction started. And I'm surprised at your lack of evidence for your strange philosophy that preaching stops during the tribulation. An argument from silence is not a strong argument. I'm actually quite Dumbfounded by this; As Evidenced By: Argument from Silence--is a conclusion based on the absence of statements in historical documents, rather than their presence. Ok you said... "I feel that our purpose does not change during the tribulation, we are to continue to preach and disciple the nations." Then I asked you for support..... Show "The Church" preaching The Gospel in Revelation....? You can't, because there are no statements (absence of statements) in Revelation that show "The Church" preaching the Gospel...so you then concluded the Antithesis, In other words----(Since it doesn't state that there is the preaching of the Gospel by The Church in the "great tribulation"....therefore, the Gospel is Preached by The Church in the "great tribulation") This is a Textbook Example of an Argument from Silence (Fallacy); Ergo....Pot meet kettle Moreover....The Preaching of The Gospel is mentioned in Revelation (as I've shown you): (Revelation 14:6) "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," Which drives home my point even further. Notwithstanding...The lack of evidence is not proof that the contrary is true. However, if evidence can reasonably be expected to be found, then lack of evidence is evidence to the contrary. Can we reasonably expect to find "The Church" Preaching The Gospel during the "great tribulation"? .....you betcha. Not only do we not find "The Church" preaching in the "great tribulation".....we don't find "The Church"! Moreover-furthermore, the base of your premise has "The Church" in the "great tribulation" so as to "preach"----this is a Begging The Question (Fallacy). First prove "The Church" is IN the "great tribulation".....? Anything further? ============================================================================================================= Moving on................ You probably should have followed your own advice here, but alas... The beauty about my point of view, is that those neutrals who follow this discussion can actually read Rev 11:15 and decide for themselves if its referring to the second coming: If they can Fog a Mirror, they should be able to unwind these baseless "a priori" adherence's in less than a Planck Time. The second coming and events surrounding the day of the Lord are often mentioned in Revelation, not just once. Another Strawman (Fallacy). When is The "Actual" Second Coming??....Revelation 19. We can talk all day about the events leading to building the Empire State Building... but that's quite a bit different than the "Actual Day" construction started. And I'm surprised at your lack of evidence for your strange philosophy that preaching stops during the tribulation. An argument from silence is not a strong argument. I'm actually quite Dumbfounded by this; As Evidenced By: Argument from Silence--is a conclusion based on the absence of statements in historical documents, rather than their presence. Ok you said... "I feel that our purpose does not change during the tribulation, we are to continue to preach and disciple the nations." Then I asked you for support..... Show "The Church" preaching The Gospel in Revelation....? You can't, because there are no statements (absence of statements) in Revelation that show "The Church" preaching the Gospel...so you then concluded the Antithesis, In other words----(Since it doesn't state that there is the preaching of the Gospel by The Church in the "great tribulation"....therefore, the Gospel is Preached by The Church in the "great tribulation") This is a Textbook Example of an Argument from Silence (Fallacy); Ergo....Pot meet kettle Moreover....The Preaching of The Gospel is mentioned in Revelation (as I've shown you): (Revelation 14:6) "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," Which drives home my point even further. Notwithstanding...The lack of evidence is not proof that the contrary is true. However, if evidence can reasonably be expected to be found, then lack of evidence is evidence to the contrary. Can we reasonably expect to find "The Church" Preaching The Gospel during the "great tribulation"? .....you betcha. Not only do we not find "The Church" preaching in the "great tribulation".....we don't find "The Church"! Moreover-furthermore, the base of your premise has "The Church" in the "great tribulation" so as to "preach"----this is a Begging The Question (Fallacy). First prove "The Church" is IN the "great tribulation".....? Anything further? I see you are getting quite pedantic about side issues. Jesus gave us the mandate to preach the gospel and disciple the nations, Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. The gospel will be preached and then the end will come. Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Guys, you can’t hope to have an intelligent conversation if you don’t understand the terms! What IS the “gospel of the kingdom?” And, in the words of Abbott and Costello, “I’ll break your arm if you say,” “the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ!" The truth is that the “gospel of the kingdom” has hardly STARTED to be "preached!” First, know the terminology; THEN you can have a meaningful debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,209 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,499 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 So true, Retrobyter, Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Shalom, Enoch2021 and ARGOSY. Guys, you can’t hope to have an intelligent conversation if you don’t understand the terms! What IS the “gospel of the kingdom?” And, in the words of Abbott and Costello, “I’ll break your arm if you say,” “the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ!" The truth is that the “gospel of the kingdom” has hardly STARTED to be "preached!” First, know the terminology; THEN you can have a meaningful debate! Lol , I prefer a discussion to a debate, I have tried meaningful debates with Enoch2021 but somehow his style makes this very difficult as he seems to look for points of conflict rather than points of agreement. He will probably ask for evidence for this comment I just throw in some scriptures and let the neutrals decide for themselves based on scripture alone, I know they will not be too swayed by Enoch's amusing style and offbeat comments. So if I quote a few scriptures, and some people read them, I am happy with that. Meaningful debate? Sometimes its just impossible on these sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Shalom, Enoch2021 and ARGOSY. Guys, you can’t hope to have an intelligent conversation if you don’t understand the terms! What IS the “gospel of the kingdom?” And, in the words of Abbott and Costello, “I’ll break your arm if you say,” “the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ!" The truth is that the “gospel of the kingdom” has hardly STARTED to be "preached!” First, know the terminology; THEN you can have a meaningful debate! ================================================================================================================= What was our (purported) "Unintelligent Conversation" regarding that led you to believe we would need to Define...."the Gospel of The Kingdom"? And how would that impact or raise our "purported" Unintelligent Conversation to "Intelligent Conversation"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Shalom, Enoch2021 and ARGOSY. Guys, you can’t hope to have an intelligent conversation if you don’t understand the terms! What IS the “gospel of the kingdom?” And, in the words of Abbott and Costello, “I’ll break your arm if you say,” “the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ!" The truth is that the “gospel of the kingdom” has hardly STARTED to be "preached!” First, know the terminology; THEN you can have a meaningful debate! ================================================================================================================= What was our (purported) "Unintelligent Conversation" regarding that led you to believe we would need to Define...."the Gospel of The Kingdom"? And how would that impact or raise our "purported" Unintelligent Conversation to "Intelligent Conversation"? Not only was our conversation supposedly "unintelligent", it allegedly wasn't "meaningful" either!! He's probably right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Shalom, Enoch2021 and ARGOSY. Guys, you can’t hope to have an intelligent conversation if you don’t understand the terms! What IS the “gospel of the kingdom?” And, in the words of Abbott and Costello, “I’ll break your arm if you say,” “the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ!" The truth is that the “gospel of the kingdom” has hardly STARTED to be "preached!” First, know the terminology; THEN you can have a meaningful debate! Lol , I prefer a discussion to a debate, I have tried meaningful debates with Enoch2021 but somehow his style makes this very difficult as he seems to look for points of conflict rather than points of agreement. He will probably ask for evidence for this comment I just throw in some scriptures and let the neutrals decide for themselves based on scripture alone, I know they will not be too swayed by Enoch's amusing style and offbeat comments. So if I quote a few scriptures, and some people read them, I am happy with that. Meaningful debate? Sometimes its just impossible on these sites. ===================================================================================================================== Maybe if you Support what you postulate instead of ("I believe"/"my impressions"/ "I think") ...it would start to be more meaningful? Just a thought. I look for Cogent Logical good ole fashioned Support.....anyone can believe anything....it appears few can actually Support what they believe and say; Ergo...."Blind Faith". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Shalom, Enoch2021 and ARGOSY. Guys, you can’t hope to have an intelligent conversation if you don’t understand the terms! What IS the “gospel of the kingdom?” And, in the words of Abbott and Costello, “I’ll break your arm if you say,” “the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ!" The truth is that the “gospel of the kingdom” has hardly STARTED to be "preached!” First, know the terminology; THEN you can have a meaningful debate! Lol , I prefer a discussion to a debate, I have tried meaningful debates with Enoch2021 but somehow his style makes this very difficult as he seems to look for points of conflict rather than points of agreement. He will probably ask for evidence for this comment I just throw in some scriptures and let the neutrals decide for themselves based on scripture alone, I know they will not be too swayed by Enoch's amusing style and offbeat comments. So if I quote a few scriptures, and some people read them, I am happy with that. Meaningful debate? Sometimes its just impossible on these sites. ===================================================================================================================== Maybe if you Support what you postulate instead of ("I believe"/"my impressions"/ "I think") ...it would start to be more meaningful? Just a thought. I look for Cogent Logical good ole fashioned Support.....anyone can believe anything....it appears few can actually Support what they believe and say; Ergo...."Blind Faith". I am sure you are perfectly logical and unbiased in your own eyes Enoch2021 And more so than everyone else. I just let the scriptures speak for themselves. Enjoy your day! Goodnight from Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted November 13, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Shalom, Enoch2021 and ARGOSY. Guys, you can’t hope to have an intelligent conversation if you don’t understand the terms! What IS the “gospel of the kingdom?” And, in the words of Abbott and Costello, “I’ll break your arm if you say,” “the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ!" The truth is that the “gospel of the kingdom” has hardly STARTED to be "preached!” First, know the terminology; THEN you can have a meaningful debate! Lol , I prefer a discussion to a debate, I have tried meaningful debates with Enoch2021 but somehow his style makes this very difficult as he seems to look for points of conflict rather than points of agreement. He will probably ask for evidence for this comment I just throw in some scriptures and let the neutrals decide for themselves based on scripture alone, I know they will not be too swayed by Enoch's amusing style and offbeat comments. So if I quote a few scriptures, and some people read them, I am happy with that. Meaningful debate? Sometimes its just impossible on these sites. ===================================================================================================================== Maybe if you Support what you postulate instead of ("I believe"/"my impressions"/ "I think") ...it would start to be more meaningful? Just a thought. I look for Cogent Logical good ole fashioned Support.....anyone can believe anything....it appears few can actually Support what they believe and say; Ergo...."Blind Faith". I am sure you are perfectly logical and unbiased in your own eyes Enoch2021 And more so than everyone else. I just let the scriptures speak for themselves. Enjoy your day! Goodnight from Africa. =================================================================================================== I am sure you are perfectly logical and unbiased in your own eyes Enoch2021 And more so than everyone else. Can you list the Qualitative/Quantitative Data that you used to reach your "I am sure" conclusions? So we can assess the VERACITY of your claims. Please.... 1. 2. 3.... Or should we just take this and place it in the long list of Absolute Baseless Assertions. (It's Rhetorical) The only other possibility, Is you have Special Mind Powers @ your disposal that we're not aware of. If so, let me know....I have a TEST for that also I just let the scriptures speak for themselves. Generalized Sweeping Baseless Assertion (Fallacy). And a Reification (Fallacy)----- Scriptures don't "Speak", they don't have a voice box/vocal chords. In conclusion, all these personal slights are just a diversion away from your Baseless Position......They're the "Last Port in The Storm" techniques employed and a "Tell".....for Vapor Based Positions. Plain and Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted November 13, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I am sure you are perfectly logical and unbiased in your own eyes Enoch2021 And more so than everyone else. Can you list the Qualitative/Quantitative Data that you used to reach your "I am sure" conclusions? So we can assess the VERACITY of your claims. Please.... 1. 2. 3.... Or should we just take this and place it in the long list of Absolute Baseless Assertions. (It's Rhetorical) The only other possibility, Is you have Special Mind Powers @ your disposal that we're not aware of. If so, let me know....I have a TEST for that also I just let the scriptures speak for themselves. Generalized Sweeping Baseless Assertion (Fallacy). And a Reification (Fallacy)----- Scriptures don't "Speak", they don't have a voice box/vocal chords. In conclusion, all these personal slights are just a diversion away from your Baseless Position......They're the "Last Port in The Storm" techniques employed and a "Tell".....for Vapor Based Positions. Plain and Simple. I'm just kidding around with you. You don't need to take it all so seriously No hard feelings. this discussion is going no-where as others have already recognised, lets just leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted November 13, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Shalom, Enoch2021 and ARGOSY. Guys, you can’t hope to have an intelligent conversation if you don’t understand the terms! What IS the “gospel of the kingdom?” And, in the words of Abbott and Costello, “I’ll break your arm if you say,” “the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ!" The truth is that the “gospel of the kingdom” has hardly STARTED to be "preached!” First, know the terminology; THEN you can have a meaningful debate! ================================================================================================================= What was our (purported) "Unintelligent Conversation" regarding that led you to believe we would need to Define...."the Gospel of The Kingdom"? And how would that impact or raise our "purported" Unintelligent Conversation to "Intelligent Conversation"? Not only was our conversation supposedly "unintelligent", it allegedly wasn't "meaningful" either!! He's probably right. Say it ain't so? LOL I don't do "Probably's". Maybe he'll stop back and enlighten us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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