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Do you understand a parenthesis? You can pull a parenthesis (a phrase inserted into a text to help explain the text) out of its setting and the setting reads perfectly as if the parenthesis were not there. Try reading 11:1 - 11:2 - 11:3 - 11:14 - 11:15 - 12:6  in that order. That is John's chronology. Verse 11:14 is to follow 11:3 immediately. there is no 1260 days  or 42 months in-between these two verses as so many imagine. Those verses are written as a parenthesis.  This way John goes straight from the man of sin and the two witnesses arriving just before the abomination  - to the abomination (7th trumpet)  - to those fleeing when then see the abomination. This is the TRUE chronology.

 

 

 

 

The Rev.11:14 event is fulfilled right after the Rev.11:3 event? That's a wild jump out of the order of events given in that Rev.11 chapter. It does not fit and never will.

 

The order of events there are strictly chronological...

 

Rev.11

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

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I have hidden two posts. 

 

Please ensure that you are discussing the issue, not the person.

 

If you know you are butting heads with another member, be the first to offer an olive branch and be the peacemaker.

If you notice that you are getting heated by another’s response, walk away from the thread until you know you have His peace back in your life over the issue.

 

Debate the subject, not the person.

 

God Bless .

 

Nigel. 

Thanks, Nigel!

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Do you understand a parenthesis? You can pull a parenthesis (a phrase inserted into a text to help explain the text) out of its setting and the setting reads perfectly as if the parenthesis were not there. Try reading 11:1 - 11:2 - 11:3 - 11:14 - 11:15 - 12:6  in that order. That is John's chronology. Verse 11:14 is to follow 11:3 immediately. there is no 1260 days  or 42 months in-between these two verses as so many imagine. Those verses are written as a parenthesis.  This way John goes straight from the man of sin and the two witnesses arriving just before the abomination  - to the abomination (7th trumpet)  - to those fleeing when then see the abomination. This is the TRUE chronology.

 

 

 

 

The Rev.11:14 event is fulfilled right after the Rev.11:3 event? That's a wild jump out of the order of events given in that Rev.11 chapter. It does not fit and never will.

 

The order of events there are strictly chronological...

 

Rev.11

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

This is where your theory and my truth will never agree. I know what a parenthesis is. In fact, PURE LOGIC proves what I say.

 

When John wrote in 11:2 that the city would be trampled for the next 42 months, that makes 11:2 a MIDPOINT VERSE.

 

|<--------------------------------------------------------[11:2 Event]<------------------42 months-------------------------->:| END of week.

|123456789101112131415161718192021222324252627282930313233343536373839404142[MIDPOINT]123456789101112131415161718192021222324252627282930313233343536373839404142|

 

|<--------------------------------------------------------[11:3 Testifying]------------------------------------------------------->|

 

|<--------------------------------------------------------[12:6 Fleeing]---------------------------------------------------------->|

 

There is not a font small enough to count to 1260 on each side of the midpoint. You will just have to imagine it.

 

You want to put another 1260 days into this picture, but WHERE? There is simply NO ROOM. The trampling shows 11:2 to be a midpoint event, 11:3 shows that verse with the 1260 days to be a Midpoint event, and 12:6 shows that verse to be a midpoint event. There is NO ROOM between 11:2 or 11:3 and 12:6 for another 1260 days. All of these events, the trampling, the testifying and the fleeing begin within just a few days of each other.

 

The time line is in truth like this: all points begins near the midpoint:

 

Man of sin arrives in Jerusalem - citytrampled for 42 months -> Two witnesses show up and begin to testify - for 1260 days -> the 7th trumpet sounds to mark the midpoint. ->The city still being trampled and the two witnesses  still testifying -> Those in Judea flee the abomination, having just seen it -> The city still being trampled and the two witnesses still testifying and those who fled still fleeing ->  Michael casts Satan down. -> The city still being trampled and the two witnesses  still testifying and those who fled still fleeing -> The BEAST emerges (man of sin possessed) and is given 42 months -> The city still being trampled and the two witnesses  still testifying and those who fled still fleeing and the Beast's 42 months beginning-> Chapter 14 events -> The temple still being trampled and the two witnesses  still testifying and those who fled still fleeing and the Beast running out his 42 months  -> Chapter 15 events  -> The temple still being trampled and the two witnesses  still testifying and the 42 months of authority continuing.  -> Vials poured out -> The temple still being trampled and the two witnesses still testifying and the 42 months of authority continuing -> Two witnesses put to death just 3 1/2 days before the end of the week -> 7th vial ENDS the week.

This is a graphic showing 6 parallel times going at once in Revelation. The top line is John's general narrative.

 

 

|<----start of week-------------------------------------------------[Midpoint]----------------------------------------------------------------->| 7th vial

|<----start of week-------------------------------------------------[42 months begin]------------------------------------------------------->| 7th vial

|<----start of week-------------------------------------------------[1260 days begins]---------------------------------------------------->| Witnessed killed

|<----start of week-------------------------------------------------[1260 days begins]------------------------------------------------------>| 7th vial

|<----start of week-------------------------------------------------[3 1/2 years begins]----------------------------------------------------->| 7th vial

|<----start of week-------------------------------------------------[42 months begins]------------------------------------------------------>|Beast captured

 

This is John's true chronology. Note, nothing has to be rearranged.

 

The Rev.11:14 event is fulfilled right after the Rev.11:3 event? 

 

Yes, because 11:4 through 11:13  are a parenthesis. For chronology, just skip those verses. John had to write about them somewhere, and this was a good spot.  However, their span of testifing time will span the entire last half of the week save 3 1/2 days.

 

Read 11:1-2

Read 11:3

Read 11:14 & 15

 

THIS is John's chronology.

 

That's a wild jump out of the order of events given in that Rev.11 chapter. It does not fit and never will.

 

Of course it fits, because those verses are written as a PARENTHESIS and it is the Intent of the Author. What never will fit is trying to squeeze 1260 days between two midpoint events, which forces you to push the 7th trumpet off into later chapters. WRONG! The 7th trumpet marks the EXACT MIDPOINT, because those verses about the two witnesses are a parenthesis.

 

Notice, if you mentally attempt to force a 1260 day span after the 42 months of trampling begins, then you have those fleeing in 12:6 fleeing....from the 7th vial! (That is where you would end up if you counted out 1260 days from the time the trampling begins.  How funny! The abomination would have happened 1260 days previous. Of course that would put everything in chapter 14 out of whack also.  The warning for the mark would come long after the mark was established.

 

Read it this way and skip over the parenthesis and you will see the true chronology:

 

Rev.11

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

 

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

(4. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. )  

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

You need to understand that those verses in yellow print, although printed in chapter 11, actually take place from the midpoint all the way to the end of the week. You can't add 1260 days to the midpoint and NOT come out at the end, for the second half of the week is 1260 days. NEITHER can you move the entrance or appearance of the two witnesses backwards: John shows them appearing right after the man of sin enters the city of Jerusalem.

 

Do you see what a huge difference a parenthesis makes? So you see, it DOES fit, for this is the intention of the Author. Sadly John did not have parenthesis marks to use. We have to use WISDOM to find his parenthesis.

 

LAMAD

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Therefore I have NO DOUBT that the entire 70th week is still ahead of us. I have a GREAT advantage, for God Himself instructed me in this exact area. If God believes it is, that is good enough for me.

 

LAMAD

 

 

For the purpose of bible discussions its better to show your evidence from the bible. Even Jesus used this scriptural approach. So I don't find your last point compelling whatsoever, despite being sure that in other areas God would communicate with you directly.

 

Paul used his own personal testimony, even before kings. I certainly will not deny what really happened.

God spoke to me about this very subject and left no doubt that in HIS mind, the entire 70th week is still future, being "clearly marked" in the book of Revelation.

LAMAD

 

 

Well LAMAD your "clear markings" are subject to interpretation.  The period of the last few trumpets more logically overlaps the tribulation than precedes the tribulation. 

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become

    the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,

    and he will reign for ever and ever.

The kingdom of Jesus occurs at the second coming, and so the 7th trumpet is the second coming, and the 6th trumpet (the two witnesses) occurs just before the second coming. This is the most logical way of seeing things, so I just cannot agree with you on a purely biblical basis.  Revelation just does not mention an earlier 3.5 year period, it only mentions the final 3.5 year period.

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Therefore I have NO DOUBT that the entire 70th week is still ahead of us. I have a GREAT advantage, for God Himself instructed me in this exact area. If God believes it is, that is good enough for me.

 

LAMAD

 

 

For the purpose of bible discussions its better to show your evidence from the bible. Even Jesus used this scriptural approach. So I don't find your last point compelling whatsoever, despite being sure that in other areas God would communicate with you directly.

 

Paul used his own personal testimony, even before kings. I certainly will not deny what really happened.

God spoke to me about this very subject and left no doubt that in HIS mind, the entire 70th week is still future, being "clearly marked" in the book of Revelation.

LAMAD

 

 

Well LAMAD your "clear markings" are subject to interpretation.  The period of the last few trumpets more logically overlaps the tribulation than precedes the tribulation. 

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become

    the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,

    and he will reign for ever and ever.

The kingdom of Jesus occurs at the second coming, and so the 7th trumpet is the second coming, and the 6th trumpet (the two witnesses) occurs just before the second coming. This is the most logical way of seeing things, so I just cannot agree with you on a purely biblical basis.  Revelation just does not mention an earlier 3.5 year period, it only mentions the final 3.5 year period.

 

This is just man's imagination and reasoning. The truth is, Adam's lease runs out at the 7th trumpet. Since Satan usurped Adam's lease, suddenly Satan is found with no legal hold to anything on earth, so is cast down from his high places. And since Adam's lease (the scroll in chapter 5) has run out, the kingdoms of the world are transferred to Jesus Christ. This in NO WAY is saying that Jesus comes to earth to take physical possession. He does NOT.

 

What you have missed is that God has His WORD out, and CANNOT lie: the Beast will be given 42 months of authority. Jesus waits in heaven for those 42 months. Therefore the 7th trumpet remains exactly what the Holy Spirit chose: the mark the exact midpoint.

 

Did you realize, for your theory, you must REARRANGE the book? Neither you nor anyone else has that authority. It is in the order these things will happen when it is time.

 

PROOF:

Daniel 9:27 tells us the week will be divided by some event that causes the daily sacrifices to cease. Paul tells us that the man of sin will enter the temple and declare he is God. That will immediately stop the daily sacrifices. And Jesus told those in judea to flee the moment they see the abomination. We find that fleeing begins in 12:2, just a second or two after the 7th trumpet has sounded. They are obeying what Jesus told them: FLEE.

 

In your theory, they would be fleeing Jesus 2nd coming at the end of the week!

 

The kingdom of Jesus occurs at the second coming, and so the 7th trumpet is the second coming, and the 6th trumpet (the two witnesses) occurs just before the second coming

 

You have several errors in just this one sentence. The kingdoms of the world are transferred to Jesus right where John tells us: at the MIDPOINT of the week. Your theory is just that: a theory that does not line up with the word of God. There is no coming at the 7th trumpet. That part is MYTH. Finally, the two witnesses show up AFTER the 6th trumpet has finished. In truth, the two witnesses will show up just 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint of the week. By this time the 6th trumpet event will be history - come and gone. God knows what is about to happen and will have witnesses there to testify to what they see.

 

I don't see your theory as logical at all. No theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology will be logical.

 

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and will be proven wrong.

 

Added later:   There is another point to consider: God will destroy this planet with fire; as Paul said, our works will be tried by fire. If Satan was still God of this world during the last half of the 70th week, God would have no authority to destroy the world. He could not do it! Being God, He WOULD NOT do it. No, the kingdoms of the world MUST transfer from Satan to God before God would have the authority to destroy it. If He did, He would have to cease being God that CANNOT lie.

 

LAMAD

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Well LAMAD your "clear markings" are subject to interpretation.  The period of the last few trumpets more logically overlaps the tribulation than precedes the tribulation. 

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become

    the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,

    and he will reign for ever and ever.

The kingdom of Jesus occurs at the second coming, and so the 7th trumpet is the second coming, and the 6th trumpet (the two witnesses) occurs just before the second coming. This is the most logical way of seeing things, so I just cannot agree with you on a purely biblical basis.  Revelation just does not mention an earlier 3.5 year period, it only mentions the final 3.5 year period.

 

 

Surely you don't believe the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe occurs just prior... to the sounding of the 7th trumpet?

 

The 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period began back at Rev.9...

 

Rev.9

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

 

Lamad wants to create parenthetical clauses within the Rev.11 chapter that do not exist.

 

The Rev.10 chapter is parenthetical, because it's giving us some general info before continuing with the events that will occur on the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe that began at Rev.9:13.

 

All the events from Rev.9:13 forward to Rev.11:14 are 'within' the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period.

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Well LAMAD your "clear markings" are subject to interpretation.  The period of the last few trumpets more logically overlaps the tribulation than precedes the tribulation. 

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become

    the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,

    and he will reign for ever and ever.

The kingdom of Jesus occurs at the second coming, and so the 7th trumpet is the second coming, and the 6th trumpet (the two witnesses) occurs just before the second coming. This is the most logical way of seeing things, so I just cannot agree with you on a purely biblical basis.  Revelation just does not mention an earlier 3.5 year period, it only mentions the final 3.5 year period.

 

 

Surely you don't believe the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe occurs just prior... to the sounding of the 7th trumpet?

 

The 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period began back at Rev.9...

 

Rev.9

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

 

Lamad wants to create parenthetical clauses within the Rev.11 chapter that do not exist.

 

The Rev.10 chapter is parenthetical, because it's giving us some general info before continuing with the events that will occur on the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe that began at Rev.9:13.

 

All the events from Rev.9:13 forward to Rev.11:14 are 'within' the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period.

 

6th trumpet  - 2nd woe period:

 

Rev. 9

 

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

 

That is it. That ENDS the 6th trumpet "period." At this time the 6th trumpet and events associated (the killing of 1/3 of earth's population) is OVER, FINISHED, and HISTORY.

 

So what comes next?  John broke from his real-time discussion of the seals between the 6th and 7th seal and went into an "intermission" time. There was a good reason. Just as they draw the curtains and rearrange the set at a play, John must "rearrange the setting" before the 7th seal can be sounded, which is the official start of the 70th week. So what "setting" must be changed? There are two events that John must cover before the 7th seal is broken; the 144,000 Hebrew men MUST be sealed for their protection, and the raptured church MUST be safely in heaven. Once John has covered these events, He will continue his real-time of the seals, trumpets and vials.

 

John does the same thing between the 6th and 7th trumpets: he breaks after the 6th trumpet and goes into an intermission. Chapter 10 begins this intermission. Things are VERY BUSY around the midpoint of the week, and John will cover several things before and after the 7th trumpet, and before he gets to the vials. This "midpoint intermission" actually goes from chapter 10 to chapter 15. The only real-time event in all those chapters is the 7th trumpet. John does not get to the vials until chapter 16.

 

If Salty wishes to call this intermission a parenthesis, it is ok. I call it an intermission. It is very possible to have a parenthesis within a parenthesis, or a parenthesis within an intermission.

 

I did not create a parenthesis in chapter 11, John did that for us.

 

LAMAD

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6th trumpet  - 2nd woe period:

 

Rev. 9

 

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

 

That is it. That ENDS the 6th trumpet "period." At this time the 6th trumpet and events associated (the killing of 1/3 of earth's population) is OVER, FINISHED, and HISTORY.

 

So what comes next?  John broke from his real-time discussion of the seals between the 6th and 7th seal and went into an "intermission" time. There was a good reason. Just as they draw the curtains and rearrange the set at a play, John must "rearrange the setting" before the 7th seal can be sounded, which is the official start of the 70th week. So what "setting" must be changed? There are two events that John must cover before the 7th seal is broken; the 144,000 Hebrew men MUST be sealed for their protection, and the raptured church MUST be safely in heaven. Once John has covered these events, He will continue his real-time of the seals, trumpets and vials.

 

John does the same thing between the 6th and 7th trumpets: he breaks after the 6th trumpet and goes into an intermission. Chapter 10 begins this intermission. Things are VERY BUSY around the midpoint of the week, and John will cover several things before and after the 7th trumpet, and before he gets to the vials. This "midpoint intermission" actually goes from chapter 10 to chapter 15. The only real-time event in all those chapters is the 7th trumpet. John does not get to the vials until chapter 16.

 

If Salty wishes to call this intermission a parenthesis, it is ok. I call it an intermission. It is very possible to have a parenthesis within a parenthesis, or a parenthesis within an intermission.

 

I did not create a parenthesis in chapter 11, John did that for us.

 

LAMAD

 

 

That's gross confusion also.

 

The last 3 trumpets occur in order, which is one of the reasons why 3 WOES are attached to them. Based on your confused reasoning Christ would come on that 6th trumpet - 2nd woe of Rev.9, but behold, LOOK who it is that does... come on that 6th trumpet - 2nd woe!...

 

Rev.9

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

 

 

Nothing there about Christ's coming written in that Rev.9 chapter. It's instead written in the Rev.11 chapter on the final 7th trumpet - 3rd WOE...

 

 

Rev.11

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

Even a little child can count:

1 = 5th trumpet - 1st woe

2 = 6th trumpet - 2nd woe

3 = 7th trumpet - 3rd woe = END

 

 

You do The Father and His Son injustice by how you butcher His Word just so you can keep your own tradition.

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6th trumpet  - 2nd woe period:

 

Rev. 9

 

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

 

That is it. That ENDS the 6th trumpet "period." At this time the 6th trumpet and events associated (the killing of 1/3 of earth's population) is OVER, FINISHED, and HISTORY.

 

So what comes next?  John broke from his real-time discussion of the seals between the 6th and 7th seal and went into an "intermission" time. There was a good reason. Just as they draw the curtains and rearrange the set at a play, John must "rearrange the setting" before the 7th seal can be sounded, which is the official start of the 70th week. So what "setting" must be changed? There are two events that John must cover before the 7th seal is broken; the 144,000 Hebrew men MUST be sealed for their protection, and the raptured church MUST be safely in heaven. Once John has covered these events, He will continue his real-time of the seals, trumpets and vials.

 

John does the same thing between the 6th and 7th trumpets: he breaks after the 6th trumpet and goes into an intermission. Chapter 10 begins this intermission. Things are VERY BUSY around the midpoint of the week, and John will cover several things before and after the 7th trumpet, and before he gets to the vials. This "midpoint intermission" actually goes from chapter 10 to chapter 15. The only real-time event in all those chapters is the 7th trumpet. John does not get to the vials until chapter 16.

 

If Salty wishes to call this intermission a parenthesis, it is ok. I call it an intermission. It is very possible to have a parenthesis within a parenthesis, or a parenthesis within an intermission.

 

I did not create a parenthesis in chapter 11, John did that for us.

 

LAMAD

 

 

That's gross confusion also.

 

The last 3 trumpets occur in order, which is one of the reasons why 3 WOES are attached to them. Based on your confused reasoning Christ would come on that 6th trumpet - 2nd woe of Rev.9, but behold, LOOK who it is that does... come on that 6th trumpet - 2nd woe!...

 

Rev.9

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

 

 

Nothing there about Christ's coming written in that Rev.9 chapter. It's instead written in the Rev.11 chapter on the final 7th trumpet - 3rd WOE...

 

 

Rev.11

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

Even a little child can count:

1 = 5th trumpet - 1st woe

2 = 6th trumpet - 2nd woe

3 = 7th trumpet - 3rd woe = END

 

 

You do The Father and His Son injustice by how you butcher His Word just so you can keep your own tradition.

 

Salty, you can try to sidestep these things, or try to rewrite what I have said, or even come up with nonsense, which you do at times,  but I will catch it every time.  For example, WHO SAID 3rd woe = END? Please show us this verse! If you wish to find the END...look here:

 

Rev. 16:17 (ERV)

17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air. Then a loud voice came out of the temple from the throne. It said, “It is finished!”

 

or Phillips:

17 The seventh angel emptied his bowl into the air. A loud voice came out of the Temple, from the throne, saying, “The end has come!”

 

These translations are correct: the 7th vial ENDS the 70th week - but it sill still be an unknown space of time before Jesus returns.

 

The last 3 trumpets occur in order,

 

Salty, I have never said they didn't! You cannot make a strawman here. OF COURSE they occur in order, for they are NUMBERED. However, it is the events between the 6th and 7th that you seem not to understand as they are written.

 

Based on your confused reasoning Christ would come on that 6th trumpet - 2nd woe of Rev.9

 

I have never even hinted at such nonsense. Jesus does not return until chapter 19, after the 70th week has finished. How do you come up with such things?

 

Nothing there about Christ's coming written in that Rev.9 chapter. It's instead written in the Rev.11 chapter on the final 7th trumpet - 3rd WOE...

 

Salty, there is nothing in chapter 9 OR chapter 11 about Jesus' coming! Go back and camp out on chapter 19 until you can recognize what His real coming will be.

 

It is amazing how loud false doctrine screams when TRUTH shows up.

 

LAMAD

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Unfortunately for many Christians death comes before what ever end time layout that people want to make up in their own minds. The reality is that countless Christians have already passed from this earthly life, how is any end time layout important to them right now?

I pray that common sense and logic prevails before we have another end time epidemic on our hands, where people themselves become the enemies of their own devices and lead the world into conflict once again.

The end time layout should be called for many who condone such practices as end time WAR layout. This epidemic is bringing the world once again into conflict by those who do not know what they are doing or playing with.

For example some people advertise end time layout like, Arabs attack Israel, Israel retaliates then Russia steps in and then America fights Russia and then we have the can of worms opened up once more, therefore the world bleeds again, for the sins of those who continue in this end time layout witch hunt.

End time layout, it is the most insatiable hunger for blood, that has been played against humanity and we are seeing it unfold again and again.

One final advice, lay off it!

Edited by Defending the Name

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