Non-OSAS and sleep

[dscapp]

I speak from experiemce when I say osas is pure poison for the soul. And the thing is the whole time I really did want to live with less sin in my life. The message osas can be taken by some the wrong way. I think we should teach of eternal security in Christ, but the osas message has nothing in it about the importance of a holy lifestyle. Nothin about obedience. For a young christian who may not know scripture that well, it is NOT the whole message one needs to grow in Christ. It took me several years to get over this hump in life and this is why I speak against osas. Hosea 4:6 tells us Gods people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

 

This is not what OSAS teaches, OSAS doctrine specifically teaches a fact about God's salvation.

It doesn't just state this fact and then ignore every other scripture.

People get something drilled into their heads, and it's hard to ignore lies.

I understand brother.

[Guest Butero]

There are scriptures that seem to indicate OSAS is true, but there are just as many that would cause you to believe you can lose your salvation.  It is the easiest thing in the world for me to point to 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 and a list of behavior that will keep you from inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven.  I can just ask if you ever see a Christian behaving that way?  If so, the Bible says they won't make it to heaven, case closed.  The OSAS crowd will then say that only applies to sinners, but the Bible doesn't say that.  They will say no man can pluck us out of God's hand, and I will say they can still walk out of it on their own.  What you wind up is each side posting their favorite scriptures to back up their doctrinal position, with no resolution. 

 

My personal belief is the answer is pre-destination and election.  Those people the Bible speaks of that the Father gave to his Son Jesus that he will keep are those pre-destined to be saved, but the problem is, we don't have any assurance of who that is.  The OSAS crowd says it is everyone that says a sinner's prayer and means it, but Paul warns us to make our calling and election sure.  That is the only explanation that I know of that reconciles both sides of the scriptures.  You have to live right, because if you don't, it could mean you aren't really one of those pre-destined to eternal life.  If you do live right, you are making your calling and election sure. 

 

Anyway, this topic comes up a lot, and it usually isn't a whole lot of fun.  It usually gets pretty heated as both sides dig their heels in and won't consider anyone else's view.  You get the usual nonsense about people being fallen from grace and going back under the law, and the other side saying that if you believe OSAS, you are promoting a license to sin.  I have seen this happen more times than I can count.  Hopefully this thread will be as much fun as the OP indicates. 

[OneLight]

dscapp, are you sure you are not referring to eternal security?  It sure sounds like you are.  OSAS claims that no matter what you do, you remain saved, even if you die in your sin.  In other words, you could rob a bank, kill some people, take hostages, be shot in the process, die, and if you had accepted Christ, you will go to be with Him.

[dscapp]

In other words, you could rob a bank, kill some people, take hostages, be shot in the process, die, and if you had accepted Christ, you will go to be with Him.

 

Have you ever heard of a born again christian ever doing that. Seriously though, all sins are covered through the blood of Christ. OSAS or eternal security is simply stating this fact.

[Guest Butero]

I reject the notion that when you get saved, all past, present and future sins are automatically under the blood.  You have to confess your sins to find forgiveness.  If you sin through ignorance, that is under the blood atonement till you recognize your error.  Under the old covenant, it was known as presumptuous sins verses sins through ignorance,  In the NT, it is willful sins verses sins done through ignorance.  If a Christian were to decide to commit adultery, and they planned a place to meet and died in the act, I believe they would go straight to hell.  Their salvation experience in the past would do them no good.  To get right with God, they would have to have opportunity to repent.  At the same time, if they slipped and did something without thinking that was wrong in the sight of God, that would be covered.  When it was revealed to them, they need to repent. 

[Guest]

Saved?

 

It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 2 Timothy 2:11

 

Unsaved?

 

If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 2 Timothy 2:12

 

Saved?

 

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 2 Timothy 2:13

 

~

 

Hush Little One....

 

Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 2 Timothy 2:14

 

Hush~!

 

Rejoice evermore.

 

Pray without ceasing.

 

In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

 

Hush~!

 

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

 

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

 

'These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God;

 

that ye may know that ye have eternal life,

 

and that ye may believe

 

on the name

 

of the Son of God. 1 John 5:11-13

[OneLight]

 

In other words, you could rob a bank, kill some people, take hostages, be shot in the process, die, and if you had accepted Christ, you will go to be with Him.

 

Have you ever heard of a born again christian ever doing that. Seriously though, all sins are covered through the blood of Christ. OSAS or eternal security is simply stating this fact.

 

 

It makes no difference if I have heard it or not, that is what OSAS is all about.  I have seen people who loved the Lord with all their heart, mind and strength fall into sin and walk away from Christ.  Free will does not stop the moment we accept salvation.  Neither does Christ let people do what they want, as in OSAS.  OSAS and Eternal Security are different, they are not the same.  Eternal Security means that if you continue in Him, seeking to do His will, nobody or anything can remove you from your place, even if you fall a million times and get back up.

[other one]

1 Cor 5:1-6

5:1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2 And you have become arrogant, and have not mourned instead, in order that the one who had done this deed might be removed from your midst. 3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6

NASB

 

This little tidbit of scripture just boggles my mind......

[dscapp]

There are scriptures that seem to indicate OSAS is true, but there are just as many that would cause you to believe you can lose your salvation.

 

God did not complicated this area in the Bible. There are scripture that seem to point to both beliefs because of people taking scripture out of context.

 

I reject the notion that when you get saved, all past, present and future sins are automatically under the blood.

 

No that's not biblical. All sins are covered. All sins being covered doesn't mean you don't need to ask for forgiveness. Simply put, asking for forgiveness draws you closer to God. An unbeliever and a believer asking for forgiveness is not the same. You can't get saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved.

 

It makes no difference if I have heard it or not, that is what OSAS is all about.  I have seen people who loved the Lord with all their heart, mind and strength fall into sin and walk away from Christ.  Free will does not stop the moment we accept salvation.  Neither does Christ let people do what they want, as in OSAS.  OSAS and Eternal Security are different, they are not the same.  Eternal Security means that if you continue in Him, seeking to do His will, nobody or anything can remove you from your place, even if you fall a million times and get back up.

 

OSAS or Eternal security or whatever doesn't tell people to do whatever they want. Those are lies planted in your mind by the devil.

[OneLight]

 

There are scriptures that seem to indicate OSAS is true, but there are just as many that would cause you to believe you can lose your salvation.

 

God did not complicated this area in the Bible. There are scripture that seem to point to both beliefs because of people taking scripture out of context.

 

I reject the notion that when you get saved, all past, present and future sins are automatically under the blood.

 

No that's not biblical. All sins are covered. All sins being covered doesn't mean you don't need to ask for forgiveness. Simply put, asking for forgiveness draws you closer to God. An unbeliever and a believer asking for forgiveness is not the same. You can't get saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved.

 

It makes no difference if I have heard it or not, that is what OSAS is all about.  I have seen people who loved the Lord with all their heart, mind and strength fall into sin and walk away from Christ.  Free will does not stop the moment we accept salvation.  Neither does Christ let people do what they want, as in OSAS.  OSAS and Eternal Security are different, they are not the same.  Eternal Security means that if you continue in Him, seeking to do His will, nobody or anything can remove you from your place, even if you fall a million times and get back up.

 

OSAS or Eternal security or whatever doesn't tell people to do whatever they want. Those are lies planted in your mind by the devil.

 

 

Now you are turning to personal attacks?  They are not the same.  Do yourself the benefit of learning what the differences are.  Just claiminmg they are does not make it so.