Non-OSAS and sleep

[dscapp]

 

 

that's not exactly true, either.

 

So what are your thoughts on James 5:19-20 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

 

Those two verses reflect the character of the epistle.  It's all about calling people to a genuine salvation.  The entire epistle is evangelistic. 

 

He calls the readers "brothers"  but that is a general term.  It doesn't mean that he assumes that everyone who hearing the epistle read are genuine brothers in the Lord.  Some are brothers only in an outward way.  They are not genuinely saved. 

 

He is talking about those who are genuine going out and leading those who are false brethren to the Lord.   He is talking to a an assembly of Christ followers in general, but there were those among them, just as there are those among us who profess Christ with their lips but live sinfully.

 

I agree with Butero that it is referring to the sinner's sins, not the sins of the person who leads the sinner to the Lord.

 

 

I agree on this. I kinda knew this is what it was talking about. easyinfo puts it well too. The trust thing was a clue. Butero is good too..

 

Verses 19-20 It is possible for a person, who knows the truth about the *Lord Jesus, to turn away from him. This is not when a Christian does something wrong. It is more than that. It is when a person wanders away from Jesus Christ and denies the truth. Christian brothers and sisters should look after one another. So, when one of them wanders away, the rest should feel it deeply. It is their duty and desire to try to bring back to the *Lord Jesus any who have turned away. Suppose that a person brings another one back to the *Lord Jesus. He should know that by this God has saved that person from death. Most Christians believe that this cannot mean death of the body. James is speaking about the death of the *soul. To bring back a brother or sister to Jesus is a great work. As that brother or sister comes back to the *Lord Jesus, God will forgive all his or her *sins. A person who comes to Jesus with real trust and receives new life from him, can never lose that life. But these verses talk about one of them, that is one of that church, who turns away. This passage speaks about those who have heard the truth but they have not really put their trust in the *Lord Jesus Christ. http://www.easyenglish.info/bible-commentary/james-lbw.htm

[Guest Butero]

I don't necessarily agree with that last sentence.  I do believe it can be speaking of people that really put their trust in the Lord.  Whenever you look to commentaries of any sort, they reflect the doctrinal position of the author, so if the author believes in OSAS, he will naturally spin things to agree with his beliefs, just like those who reject OSAS will spin things to where they will agree with that person's beliefs.  I don't believe in OSAS, so I would suggest this is speaking of a genuine Christian who has fallen away and needs restoration. 

[dscapp]

I don't necessarily agree with that last sentence.  I do believe it can be speaking of people that really put their trust in the Lord.  Whenever you look to commentaries of any sort, they reflect the doctrinal position of the author, so if the author believes in OSAS, he will naturally spin things to agree with his beliefs, just like those who reject OSAS will spin things to where they will agree with that person's beliefs.  I don't believe in OSAS, so I would suggest this is speaking of a genuine Christian who has fallen away and needs restoration. 

 

But take a look at something interesting here. Do you believe that when they say death, they're only speaking of what sin does to you rather than going to hell? Sin brings death, they're not adding or subtracting from that. They're simply stating that fact. For example this could of said...My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from hell and cover over a multitude of sins.

 

It's not saying hell, it's simply saying death. Sin equals death, nothing more nothing less. James 5:19-20 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

[Guest Butero]

@dscapp, I believe the passage in question is speaking of spiritual death, not physical death.  Everyone will experience physical death as a result of the original sin in the garden. 

 

I have noticed this thread has gotten off on Bible translations and how trustworthy they are.  Having looked into things further this week, I was shocked to see how many of the translations are relying on the Alexandrian and Egyptian text over the majority or received text.  As such, they don't include everything.  That is something I would want to look further into before considering any translation as trustworthy.  So far, I have found the KJV and the NKJV to be based on the received text, and therefore they include the entire text, while translations like the NIV, who claims to use "the most reliable manuscripts," are actually going with the Alexandrian and Egyptian manuscripts as their primary source.  When you are speaking of a literal translation One Light, are you speaking of something like Young's Literal Translation?  I have considered trying to find a copy of it for comparison's sake, and if so, what is their starting point?  Do they use the majority text, received text, or the Alexandrian and Egyptian manuscripts? 

 

BTW, I do fully trust my KJV Bible.  I am just doing research to get to the bottom of why different translations have so many differences.

[dscapp]

I have noticed this thread has gotten off on Bible translations and how trustworthy they are.

 

Well, the translation James 5:20 either says 'whoever turns a sinner' or 'whoever converts a sinner'. It kind of upsets me that translators do this to us.

[Guest Butero]

I use the KJV exclusively, so I don't deal with that kind of frustration.  In my Bible, it says "converteth the sinner." 

[dscapp]

I use the KJV exclusively, so I don't deal with that kind of frustration.  In my Bible, it says "converteth the sinner." 

 

And the word converteth relates to a a believer converting a nonbeliever to God.

[dscapp]

James 5:19-20 clearly shows that the action is to turn back, not convert. James was speaking of those who walk with them in the truth, their brothers and sisters in Christ, not sinners who had never walk with them in the truth.

 

Ok, so what is the difference between the truth in James 5:19-20 and Eph 1:13-14.

 

James 5:19-20 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

 

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

 

[The_Patriot21]

Hmm which debate should we go to bed angry over, the original topic of OSAS or not, or whether your a heretic for liking one translation over another . . .don't you all know Jude chapter 2 says the ESV is to be held in higher regard then all other due to the facts its just plain aweseome and all scoffers should just eat peanut butter endlessly until they see the error of their ways.

[other one]

would that be in verse 10-19?