other one Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,124 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,854 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2014 technically Jesus committed suicide...... while he didn't drive the nails he could have just as easily stepped off the cross as hang there and die. He did so for the best interests of others..... I have had 4 people close to me commit suicide in the past ten years and all 4 did so because they thought it best for everyone if they went away..... The mind when in a state of depression really doesn't function normally, and I just don't think it is our place to judge people in that position. Sorry, I don't buy it. You are saying that those who committed suicide did it for the best for others. Nope. First of all, they were committing a sin. No excuses. It was and is a sin. Second, they were being very self centered. A whopper of a pity party. Whoa is me, I am such a bad person, I am good for nothing. But suicide severely hurts those left behind. Suicide is a sin against God and against family and friends. Suicide can damage the relationship between members of the surviving family and between surviving individuals and God. Sorry, suicide is nothing but a cop out, and a sin of selfishness. You are free to believe what you will..... but you are not free to tell others what to believe. I would ask you if Samson will go to hell for killing himself? There are six or seven people in the Bible who committed suicide, can you show me where they are even criticized for it? Well, we know Samson had other issues, but he did not commit suicide. If a person sees an armed robber pointing a gun in the direction of women and children, and that person jumps in front and gets shot, is that suicide? If a soldier, in order to rescue some wounded soldiers risks his life to stop the enemy, and ends up being killed but saving his friends, did he commit suicide? None of these are suicide and Jesus did not commit suicide. The following are suicides in the bible. 1. King Saul who was a sinner and bad king, and was ultimately replaced by King David. 1 Sam 31 2. King Sauls armor bearer 3. Ahithophel was fighting against King David, and told Absalaom how to deceive King David. When King David was not deceived, Ahithophel committed suicide. Ahithophel was show to be a sinner, and to be fighting against Gods chosen King. 4. 1 Kings 16:18When Zimri saw that the city was taken, he went into the citadel of the king’s house and burned the king’s house over him with fire, and died, 19 because of his sins which he sinned, doing evil in the sight of the Lord, walking in the way of Jeroboam, and in his sin which he did, making Israel sin. 5. Judas So, all of the suicides in scripture were done by people who were sinners, and suicide is part of the punishment or result of sin. Clearly, suicides are not put in a positive light in scripture. They are always connected to sin and are sin. . we are all sinners..... none really any worse than the others... Some day, if you are lucky, you will be pushed beyond your capabilities and maybe then you can understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncn Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 6 Topic Count: 406 Topics Per Day: 0.09 Content Count: 5,248 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 1,337 Days Won: 67 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2014 Please read before posting on this thread This topic is one that can cause much pain to some who have lost a loved one, family or friend. Some members on Worthy have done so and others have faced the pains of considering suicide. It can also be disturbing to someone struggling in this moment of time. . Please all of you think before posting on this thread. What message do we wish to give to those that read it , especially for those struggling? For anyone reading this thread that is struggling if you need to speak to someone in the Ministry, please pm one of us or request that one of the ministry team contact you. No one needs to be alone and we are here to help any person no matter what their problem is. God loves you and so do we. God Bless. Nigel. Suicide HelpWorldwide suicide hotlines can be found at: http://www.suicide.o...e-hotlines.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I always was told suicide gets you to hell immediately. You won't be saved. I think that's really sad. I know full well what those dark moments are like and you want God there but he isn't. I tried to take my own life once, but was afraid of the outcome so didn't carry it out properly. All I got was nasty side effects. Still feel mad at God over this inside, but he loves me I guess...so I shut the anger out. Maybe the fear to kill myself 'properly' was him, I don't know. I really really hope he was saved. Everyone deserves to be saved. He was a nice man and I believe he spoke of Jesus once. Such a joyful happy person could hide so much pain inside. It's really sad. i believe the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the holy spirit. that's what the Bible says, so that's what i believe. all other sins were covered on the cross. if a person commits suicide, it's not our place to judge whether that person is or is not saved. that's between that person and God. but i do believe that saved people can suffer from mental illness, and sometimes that mental illness takes their life in the form of suicide. God says He doesn't let us go. joy and love, there have been times in my life when i, too, wanted to commit suicide... but was afraid that i'd botch it. that's probably the only reason i didn't follow through with it. I don't believe it is an unforgiveable sin in theory, as God will forgive any repentant sinner of any sin outside blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I just believe that it is unpardonable in the practical sense of the word because there is no chance to repent. I don't believe that when we get saved, all past, present and future sins are automatically covered. If you commit a willful sin, you have to confess it to be forgiven, and that is not possible when someone takes their own life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,657 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2014 Our pastor says that nearly all the suicides he has dealt with have either been directly due to the antidepressive medications they were taking or to ceasing to take the medication without a doctors direction. The person must be slowly weened off most of these meds, decreasing the dose over many weeks. Such a medication induce suicide would be certainly not condemn a person to hell. But I agree that it is only the continous rejection of God's saving grace and work of the Holy Spirit that can send a person to hell. Such a person would not even care anymore. Any suicide is grevious to all concerned. Many drugs can warp a persons thinking and make them susceptable to believing demonic suggestion. This is especially true when they are taken illegally. But it always leaves the survivors and friends thinking that there must have been something they could have done to prevent it. It is simply tragic and very selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 technically Jesus committed suicide...... while he didn't drive the nails he could have just as easily stepped off the cross as hang there and die. He did so for the best interests of others..... I have had 4 people close to me commit suicide in the past ten years and all 4 did so because they thought it best for everyone if they went away..... The mind when in a state of depression really doesn't function normally, and I just don't think it is our place to judge people in that position. Jesus did not commit suicide, technically or in any other sense of the word. He didn't nail himself to the cross. He didn't do anything to stop them, but he didn't kill himself. Look at the prayer he prayed to the Father. He desired an escape, but subjected himself to the Father's will. What he did was like the man who sacrifices himself to save someone else, like pushing a person out of the way of a bus and getting hit, or jumping on a grenade to save his friend from certain death on the battle field. He died in our place, but he didn't commit suicide. Neither did Sampson. He wasn't wanting to die. He was sacrificing himself to save others by destroying the enemies of Israel, and it was only possible through miraculous strength given to him by God. I do want to address a couple of things. First of all, I reject the notion we should avoid saying people will wind up in hell if they commit suicide because some have lost loved ones that way. I am concerned for the living that might not commit suicide if they fear hell. You can't help those who have already committed that sin. Second, I really hate the fact that the tragic death of Robin Williams has to become a suicide debate. Ultimately, how you view eternal security will determine how you view this sin, so we will never agree. That is just the reality of it. The only reason I got into this debate was because there are people saying in absolute terms that suicide will not lead to hell, and I want to make it clear that there are many who disagree with that position. Only God knows for sure, but I don't believe a person can commit suicide and get to heaven, even if they were a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2014 technically Jesus committed suicide...... while he didn't drive the nails he could have just as easily stepped off the cross as hang there and die. He did so for the best interests of others..... I have had 4 people close to me commit suicide in the past ten years and all 4 did so because they thought it best for everyone if they went away..... The mind when in a state of depression really doesn't function normally, and I just don't think it is our place to judge people in that position. Sorry, I don't buy it. You are saying that those who committed suicide did it for the best for others. Nope. First of all, they were committing a sin. No excuses. It was and is a sin. Second, they were being very self centered. A whopper of a pity party. Whoa is me, I am such a bad person, I am good for nothing. But suicide severely hurts those left behind. Suicide is a sin against God and against family and friends. Suicide can damage the relationship between members of the surviving family and between surviving individuals and God. Sorry, suicide is nothing but a cop out, and a sin of selfishness. You are free to believe what you will..... but you are not free to tell others what to believe. I would ask you if Samson will go to hell for killing himself? There are six or seven people in the Bible who committed suicide, can you show me where they are even criticized for it? Well, we know Samson had other issues, but he did not commit suicide. If a person sees an armed robber pointing a gun in the direction of women and children, and that person jumps in front and gets shot, is that suicide? If a soldier, in order to rescue some wounded soldiers risks his life to stop the enemy, and ends up being killed but saving his friends, did he commit suicide? None of these are suicide and Jesus did not commit suicide. The following are suicides in the bible. 1. King Saul who was a sinner and bad king, and was ultimately replaced by King David. 1 Sam 31 2. King Sauls armor bearer 3. Ahithophel was fighting against King David, and told Absalaom how to deceive King David. When King David was not deceived, Ahithophel committed suicide. Ahithophel was show to be a sinner, and to be fighting against Gods chosen King. 4. 1 Kings 16:18When Zimri saw that the city was taken, he went into the citadel of the king’s house and burned the king’s house over him with fire, and died, 19 because of his sins which he sinned, doing evil in the sight of the Lord, walking in the way of Jeroboam, and in his sin which he did, making Israel sin. 5. Judas So, all of the suicides in scripture were done by people who were sinners, and suicide is part of the punishment or result of sin. Clearly, suicides are not put in a positive light in scripture. They are always connected to sin and are sin. . we are all sinners..... none really any worse than the others... Some day, if you are lucky, you will be pushed beyond your capabilities and maybe then you can understand. Maybe I do understand, and know that suicide is a sin, and what it does to families. Maybe if the group who wants to give excuses are not helping the survivors, or those who are considering suicide. It devestates families. And as I've said before, the 'can't help it' routine, only makes the fault appear to be Gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2014 My deepest condolences to the family & loved ones of Robin Williams I pray they find peace & comfort as only the Lord can give them at this time of deep sorrow....................it is such a tragedy,my heart goes out to them....he was somebodys ,husband,a dad,a friend.......................... With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 i don't believe that in the throes of a psychotic break with reality (as is what happens with extreme depression, schizophrenia, or under the influence of some medications or going off the meds) one is able to make a conscious choice. and even if it can be construed as a choice by some, it's not a sin that sends one to hell. nothing in scripture would lead me to believe otherwise. and i agree with ncn, we need to consider the sensitivity of this topic for some readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted August 13, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 13, 2014 Closed until it can be split. This thread is about the death of someone, not a debated of what constitutes sin in death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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