Qnts2 Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2014 i believe that suicide is, in many cases, an outcome of a mental illness. it's not a temptation, it's an illness. you asked referencing specific mental disorders... schizophrenia, bi-polar, etc. those disorders overtake a person's mental faculties. they disable one's cognitive ability to reason. can God heal the person who has a mental illness? sure He can. but He doesn't always. does that mean if they succumb to the illness that their ticket to salvation is revoked? of course not. we're not talking about a love-sick teenager who is tempted to get revenge on an ex-boyfriend (or his mother, or father) by killing themselves. we're talking about people who have little or no control because they have become mentally incapacitated by psychosis. the scripture you gave is not applicable to this situation. at least that is my belief. Suicide is not an illness. It is a sin. Mental illness is not a sin. Suicide is a sin. Having a mental illness does not force a person to commit a sin/suicide. They still have a choice. So when a person is tempted to commit a sin, even though they have a mental illness which is causing some of the temptation, actually committing suicide is still a sin. If the mental illness makes the temptation to much so that a person succombs to the sin, and God could cure the person, then God actually allowed a temptation which was too much for the person to bear. That would be saying the the suicide is Gods fault, and the bible is wrong. What it comes down to is whether we call suicide what it actually is, and maintain the intergrity of the bible, or try to excuse the sin and blame it on a disease (not the person who sinned) when God could have healed and destroy the integrity of the bible, and blame God for that persons sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2014 I am not talking about whether a person can commit suicide and be saved. I do not believe they lose their salvation. However, suicide is a sin, and how we approach the topic is important. If we say that suicide/sin is ok, because the person was medically mentally ill, we have given an excuse for the person and the sin. And we put in question, God himself. In the end, how Christians deal with the question of suicide, is very serious indeed, if we end up calling God into question in another persons mind, who is trying to deal with this tragedy. Sin is sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 you and i have choices to sin or not every hour of every day. if we mess up and make the choice to sin, are we going to hell? to maintain the integrity of the Bible, i believe that we have to take God at His word... that to be given the free gift of eternal life, one must only believe in their heart and confess with their tongue that Jesus is who He says He is. that He died for our sins and was resurrected. and the Bible also says that the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit... it doesn't say that the unforgivable sin is the one we don't have time to ask forgiveness for after the fact, or there would be a lot of christians who missed the boat because they committed a sin just before getting struck by a car, or by lightening, or whatever, and for whatever reason failed to ask forgiveness. so whether or not suicide as a result of mental illness is a conscious choice or not, the fact remains that if a person has accepted Christ and is saved, then that person's sin is covered by the blood of Jesus, whether he confesses it or not. i do hope you'll take the time to read the apologetics links i provided... they explain my position much more eloquently than i can, and they provide plenty of scripture. i won't expect you to read them, because i know when my mind is made up on something, i rarely will read external links. but i still hope you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I am not talking about whether a person can commit suicide and be saved. I do not believe they lose their salvation. However, suicide is a sin, and how we approach the topic is important. If we say that suicide/sin is ok, because the person was medically mentally ill, we have given an excuse for the person and the sin. And we put in question, God himself. In the end, how Christians deal with the question of suicide, is very serious indeed, if we end up calling God into question in another persons mind, who is trying to deal with this tragedy. Sin is sin. oh! i thought you were saying you believed that it was a one way ticket to hell, even if the person had been saved! yes, you're right. suicide is a sin. not one that seals our fate eternally, but it is a sin, and not something to be treated lightly. i don't think that's what anyone does though. for me, it's a matter of discussing it in perspective... serious, yes. absolutely. but a lot of people really believe it's unforgivable, and it's not. that's all i'm trying to get at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,073 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,823 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2014 i believe that suicide is, in many cases, an outcome of a mental illness. it's not a temptation, it's an illness. you asked referencing specific mental disorders... schizophrenia, bi-polar, etc. those disorders overtake a person's mental faculties. they disable one's cognitive ability to reason. can God heal the person who has a mental illness? sure He can. but He doesn't always. does that mean if they succumb to the illness that their ticket to salvation is revoked? of course not. we're not talking about a love-sick teenager who is tempted to get revenge on an ex-boyfriend (or his mother, or father) by killing themselves. we're talking about people who have little or no control because they have become mentally incapacitated by psychosis. the scripture you gave is not applicable to this situation. at least that is my belief. I would agree LadyC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,073 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,823 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2014 technically Jesus committed suicide...... while he didn't drive the nails he could have just as easily stepped off the cross as hang there and die. He did so for the best interests of others..... I have had 4 people close to me commit suicide in the past ten years and all 4 did so because they thought it best for everyone if they went away..... The mind when in a state of depression really doesn't function normally, and I just don't think it is our place to judge people in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Now the jihadis are slamming Robin Williams: Edited: Link removed because of offensive language. Sorry I didn't read the article all the way down the page. But to describe what this is about - Williams did a stand-up routine criticising Islam. Muslim clerics are now gloating at his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2014 technically Jesus committed suicide...... while he didn't drive the nails he could have just as easily stepped off the cross as hang there and die. He did so for the best interests of others..... I have had 4 people close to me commit suicide in the past ten years and all 4 did so because they thought it best for everyone if they went away..... The mind when in a state of depression really doesn't function normally, and I just don't think it is our place to judge people in that position. Sorry, I don't buy it. You are saying that those who committed suicide did it for the best for others. Nope. First of all, they were committing a sin. No excuses. It was and is a sin. Second, they were being very self centered. A whopper of a pity party. Whoa is me, I am such a bad person, I am good for nothing. But suicide severely hurts those left behind. Suicide is a sin against God and against family and friends. Suicide can damage the relationship between members of the surviving family and between surviving individuals and God. Sorry, suicide is nothing but a cop out, and a sin of selfishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,073 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,823 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2014 technically Jesus committed suicide...... while he didn't drive the nails he could have just as easily stepped off the cross as hang there and die. He did so for the best interests of others..... I have had 4 people close to me commit suicide in the past ten years and all 4 did so because they thought it best for everyone if they went away..... The mind when in a state of depression really doesn't function normally, and I just don't think it is our place to judge people in that position. Sorry, I don't buy it. You are saying that those who committed suicide did it for the best for others. Nope. First of all, they were committing a sin. No excuses. It was and is a sin. Second, they were being very self centered. A whopper of a pity party. Whoa is me, I am such a bad person, I am good for nothing. But suicide severely hurts those left behind. Suicide is a sin against God and against family and friends. Suicide can damage the relationship between members of the surviving family and between surviving individuals and God. Sorry, suicide is nothing but a cop out, and a sin of selfishness. You are free to believe what you will..... but you are not free to tell others what to believe. I would ask you if Samson will go to hell for killing himself? There are six or seven people in the Bible who committed suicide, can you show me where they are even criticized for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2014 technically Jesus committed suicide...... while he didn't drive the nails he could have just as easily stepped off the cross as hang there and die. He did so for the best interests of others..... I have had 4 people close to me commit suicide in the past ten years and all 4 did so because they thought it best for everyone if they went away..... The mind when in a state of depression really doesn't function normally, and I just don't think it is our place to judge people in that position. Sorry, I don't buy it. You are saying that those who committed suicide did it for the best for others. Nope. First of all, they were committing a sin. No excuses. It was and is a sin. Second, they were being very self centered. A whopper of a pity party. Whoa is me, I am such a bad person, I am good for nothing. But suicide severely hurts those left behind. Suicide is a sin against God and against family and friends. Suicide can damage the relationship between members of the surviving family and between surviving individuals and God. Sorry, suicide is nothing but a cop out, and a sin of selfishness. You are free to believe what you will..... but you are not free to tell others what to believe. I would ask you if Samson will go to hell for killing himself? There are six or seven people in the Bible who committed suicide, can you show me where they are even criticized for it? Well, we know Samson had other issues, but he did not commit suicide. If a person sees an armed robber pointing a gun in the direction of women and children, and that person jumps in front and gets shot, is that suicide? If a soldier, in order to rescue some wounded soldiers risks his life to stop the enemy, and ends up being killed but saving his friends, did he commit suicide? None of these are suicide and Jesus did not commit suicide. The following are suicides in the bible. 1. King Saul who was a sinner and bad king, and was ultimately replaced by King David. 1 Sam 31 2. King Sauls armor bearer 3. Ahithophel was fighting against King David, and told Absalaom how to deceive King David. When King David was not deceived, Ahithophel committed suicide. Ahithophel was show to be a sinner, and to be fighting against Gods chosen King. 4. 1 Kings 16:18When Zimri saw that the city was taken, he went into the citadel of the king’s house and burned the king’s house over him with fire, and died, 19 because of his sins which he sinned, doing evil in the sight of the Lord, walking in the way of Jeroboam, and in his sin which he did, making Israel sin. 5. Judas So, all of the suicides in scripture were done by people who were sinners, and suicide is part of the punishment or result of sin. Clearly, suicides are not put in a positive light in scripture. They are always connected to sin and are sin. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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