Persuaded Posted August 21, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2014 Falling away from correct doctrine may mean that you shun the Holy Spirit, but from Jesus' own mouth comes the promise that the Holy Spirit will never leave you. If you want to alter the meaning of that clear statement, do your best. The virgins are not the bride. Read the context of the passages you quote to see what is being discussed. Dumping a bunch of nonsense-filled screen inches on these forums drastically lowers the value of these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justfaith Posted August 21, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2014 Falling away from correct doctrine may mean that you shun the Holy Spirit, but from Jesus' own mouth comes the promise that the Holy Spirit will never leave you. If you want to alter the meaning of that clear statement, do your best. The virgins are not the bride. Read the context of the passages you quote to see what is being discussed. Dumping a bunch of nonsense-filled screen inches on these forums drastically lowers the value of these forums. Revelation 2 King James Version (KJV) 2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; 2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: 3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. 4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Seems that Jesus Himself will remove the Holy Spirit What sayesth thou ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persuaded Posted August 21, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2014 The "candlestick" is not the Holy Spirit, see chapter 1. The Laodicean church already lacks white raiment (Christ's imputed righteousness). Jesus is already outside the door of the Laodicean church. [Rev 3:20 KJV] "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." And here's the goad you're kicking against, just to be more clear: [Jhn 14:16,17 KJV] "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted August 21, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2014 How is the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven greater than John the Baptist? Faith..... From the beginning of creation to the renewal of creation God aways ask the same... do you believe me? Seeing and believing is how much greater than believing without seeing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He giveth more grace Posted August 21, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2014 What make the 'New Covenant', or the 'Church age, Christian greater than John the Baptist is Christ in them, the mystery that the Prophets and Angels desired to look into. In the age in which we are now in we contain "The Treasure" in earthen vessels (clay jars). It's glorious to live in the age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persuaded Posted August 21, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2014 How is the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven greater than John the Baptist? Faith..... From the beginning of creation to the renewal of creation God aways ask the same... do you believe me? Seeing and believing is how much greater than believing without seeing? Matthew 11:11 again: (KJV) 11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. I don't think faith is it. The first half of Mat 11:11 says John the Baptist was no less than the OT heroes, who were examples of salvation by faith (see Heb 11 for a list). And, Jesus says it's better to believe without seeing: 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He giveth more grace Posted August 21, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2014 Christ in us! In John the Baptist age, the age of law there was no Christ in us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted August 22, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,200 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted August 22, 2014 `Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist;......` Jesus is talking to the people of Israel about John the Baptist being greater than all those Old Testament prophets etc who had gone before. Jesus was speaking about these people & their great acts done on earth, (born of women). `yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.` (Matt. 11: 11) Here Jesus is talking about the time when the rule of the God of Heaven would come through Israel to the other nations of the world. Not just in the Millennium but looking forward to the New Earth. The people who will inherit being there will be `greater,` than all those who did those mighty acts on the old earth. `Greater` in the sense that they will have `eternal life,` having access to the `Tree of Life,` Christ Himself. These people are NOT the Body of Christ which is destined for the very throne of Christ in the above realms beyond this Universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persuaded Posted August 22, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2014 Do you see a (meaningful) distinction between kingdom of God/kingdom of heaven? They are both used interchangeably for "the saved", both OT saved (Mat 8:11, but with "shall be" making it yet future when it was spoken) and more generally referring to (future) NT saved. The natural reading of Mat 11:11 puts a contrast between OT and NT saints though, so it should be placed in company with the dozens of other verses that use kingdom of heaven/God as a reference to the Church or body of Christ. To give this one verse a special meaning in contrast to well established usage doesn't make sense. Is the millennium in view in any other kingdom of heaven reference? I looked at the 80+ gospel usages, and none appeared millennial to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted August 22, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,200 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Hi Persuaded, There is a meaningful distinction I believe in scripture between the `kingdom of heaven,` & the kingdom of God.` Now I do speak about this in the Soap-box area where I am having a debate with inchrist. Look down toward the end of our debate so far & you will see more details. But briefly - God told Israel that they would be the rulers of the nations & when God had dealt with the final Gentile Rulers then He (the God of heaven) would set up a kingdom that would never be destroyed. (Dan. 2: 44) There are many scriptures given to Israel in the Old Testament that describes how this comes about, what it looks like, & what their part would be like. Thus they were waiting for the promised deliverer, their Messiah to come so that that rule could come on earth. Jesus continually reminded the people of Israel the promises of God that the rule from heaven would come to them. And that they were the `treasure` that God said, (Ex. 19: 5 - own possession - treasure & Matt. 13: 44) etc. The `kingdom of God,` is a greater term & includes all the realms in God`s great kingdom, rule. Jesus is not only setting up rulership on earth through Israel, but in other realms as well, putting down all rebellion that has/is there. A great topic, & as I said check out the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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