Was Jesus crucified on Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday?

[gerhard eber]

The ‘Worship’ and ‘Divination’
of the ‘Elements’, of the ‘No-Gods’
of Galatians 4:8-10

Wisdom 7:17, A Judaistic Eulogy of the God Wisdom 

En gar cheiri autou kai hehmeis kai hoi logoi hehmohn,
For in the hand of divinity both we and our mind are;

pasa te fronehsis kai ergateiohn epistehmeh;
all wisdom also and experience / maturity of science;

autos gar moi edohke tohn ontohn gnohsin epseudeh, eidenai:
for he gave me conclusive / correlative knowledge of the things that are, being between: 

sustasin kosmou kai energeian stoicheiohn:
the founding / sustaining of the world and the ruling / control of the principles / rulers / gods:

archehn kai telos kai mesotehta chronohn;
(the correlation between) the first, last and middle (basic components) of times (days, nights, months);

tropohn allagas kai metabolas kairohn;
(between) the alternating of the tropics and change of seasons;

eniautohn kyklous kai asterohn theseis;
(between) the circuits of years and stellar positioning;

fyseis zohohn kai thymous thehriohn;
(between) the nature of living things and the furies of the Centaurus (constellations);

pneumatohn bias kai dialogismous anthrohpon;
(between) the force of the winds (four directions) and the mentality of people;

diaforos phytohn kai dynameis rhidzohn –
the potencies of plants and the powers of roots –

hosa te esti krypta kai emphaneh egnohn.
all such things as are either secret or manifest, I know!

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, gerhard eber said:

Because it was "Sabbath's mid-afternoon" 'Sabbatohn tehi epiphohskousehi' that "there was a great earthquake and the angel of the Lord from heaven descending cast the stone away from the grave" and Jesus rose Matthew 28:1; so that '~He was ALREADY risen Early in the morning~' "of the First Day of the week"  'prohï Prohtehi sabbatou' "when He appeared to Mary Magdalene". Mark 16:9.

Shalom, gerhard eber.

I question your version of the Greek text. It's hard enough to understand your method of transliteration, but it also appears that your version is GROSSLY different than the Greek of the typically accepted versions, such as those listed on BibleHub.com. Would you care to defend the text that you're using? For instance, how are you arriving at your conclusion that it was "Sabbath's mid-afternoon?"

Edited August 16, 2018 by Retrobyter

[gerhard eber]

6 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I question your version of the Greek text. It's hard enough to understand your method of transliteration, but it also appears that your version is GROSSLY different than the Greek of the typically accepted versions, such as those listed on BibleHub.com. Would you care to defend the text that you're using? For instance, how are you arriving at your conclusion that it was "Sabbath's mid-afternoon?"

detailed extensive research, here, http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book 2. Resurrection.pdf

In short,

'Sabbatohn' 'Day of the Sabbath' Genitive Noun...

"Sabbath" = Sabbath's-time = on the Sabbath = while Sabbath = in the Sabbath.

Classic example of both the correct and the corrupted 'version' is the Dutch Staatenbybel, relying heavily on Tyndale, at first with Matthew 28:1, "Sabbat" - just that, "Sabbath there was a great earthquake and the angel of the Lord descended..." The translators soon realised the impossibility of a Sunday resurrection, and even quicker 'solved' their problem with inserting brackets and an, in the Greek non-existent Preposition,  'na' - 'after' which required a conflicting Accusative case; like this, '~[Na] Sabbat...~' IRONIC proving the real meaning, while themselves, frauds!

"Sabbath('s) mid-afternoon" - "in the Sabbath('s) mid-afternoon"

'tehi' - "in the", Article Dative Feminine 'tehi epiphohskousehi'

'epiphohskousehi' - "mid-afternoon"

Syllable by syllable... 'epi' - 'phohs' - '-k-' - 'ous' - 'ehi' 

'epi' - "centre" / "mid" + "very" (emphasis) "over(head)" + "downwards" + "inclining (over to)"

'ous' - from 'eimi' - 'to be' Participle, "being"

'ehi' - Feminine Dative Suffix of the Noun 'epiphohskousehi', "in the ..."

'phohs' "...light" = "...day" = "daylight" = "daylight (sun) shining down upon..."

To this must directly be connected the Adverb 'opse' - as with Genitive, "late on", and or as with Ablative, "in the end of", therefore, "Late on the Sabbath in the Sabbath('s) mid-afternoon" / "In fullness / ripeness of the Sabbath Day being in its mid-afternoon".

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by gerhard eber

[gerhard eber]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

method of transliteration

Almost all Greek letters are very much the same in English in form and sound. The most important sound differences are with the long and short vowels. Just write an h after the short (English) vowel to make it long, an 'o' for the o-mikron; 'oh' for the o-mega; 'e' for e-psilon, 'eh' for ehtha, etc. For a few exception the English letters do the job.

I was much derided at first for my method, but nowadays most of the big mouths are silent. Who in any case cares what rules used to confuse everyone in the past? All sorts of impossible '~methods of transliteration~' have been improvised. My 'method', is simple; simplicity and as near as possible literalness are all I wanted and am pretty sure of have succeeded in getting.

Edited August 17, 2018 by gerhard eber

[Alan Hales]

15 hours ago, gerhard eber said:

What is this mixture of Scriptures supposed to be about?

Matt 27: 57 is about the beginning of the Sixth Day;

Matt 27: 62 is about the morning of the Sabbath the day "after the Preparation";

Mk 15: 42 is about the evening beginning after sunset after the day of Crucifixion the beginning of the Preparation the Fore-Sabbath in that year "That Day great day of sabbath of passover". John 19:31.

Mk 16: 9 is about "early on the First Day of the week He appeared to Mary as the Risen One".

Luke Lk 23: 54--56A is about "That Day the Preparation mid-afternoon the Sabbath nearing".

Lk 23:56B is about "the women began to rest the Sabbath" after "That Day the Preparation" after sunset.

Lk 24: 1 is about "deepest of morning after midnight on the First Day of the week the women found not the body of Jesus".

So yes, these texts all prove or at least indicate that Jesus was risen early on that Sunday; BUT NONE '~prove that Jesus rose early on that Sunday~'. Alan Hales, what you claim for truth, is not truth.

You contradict yourself. as you said. these texts all prove or at least indicate that Jesus was risen early on that Sunday; BUT NONE '~prove that Jesus rose early on that Sunday~'. Alan Hales, what you claim for truth, is not truth.. You believe the gospel of Saint Erroneous. Instead of the Biblical gospel. I have given you Biblical proof that Jesus rose on a Sunday.

[gerhard eber]

22 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

You contradict yourself. as you said. these texts all prove or at least indicate that Jesus was risen early on that Sunday; BUT NONE '~prove that Jesus rose early on that Sunday~'. Alan Hales, what you claim for truth, is not truth.. You believe the gospel of Saint Erroneous. Instead of the Biblical gospel. I have given you Biblical proof that Jesus rose on a Sunday.

See: This was what I wrote, not you, Allen Hales: '~These texts all prove or at least indicate that Jesus was risen early on that Sunday; BUT NONE '~prove that Jesus rose early on that Sunday~'. Alan Hales, what you claim for truth, is not truth..~'

And this is what you, Allen Hales, wrote, not I: '~I have given you Biblical proof that Jesus rose on a Sunday.~'

You gave NO '~Biblical proof that Jesus rose on a Sunday.~'

If you say I contradicted myself, you say that YOU contradict YOU, Allen Hales! Allen Hales believes the gospel of Saint Erroneous instead of the Bible's Gospel. For the second time, no, for the umpteenth time, Alan Hales, what you claim for truth, is NOT truth!

Edited August 18, 2018 by gerhard eber

[Alan Hales]

1 hour ago, gerhard eber said:

See: This was what I wrote, not you, Allen Hales: '~These texts all prove or at least indicate that Jesus was risen early on that Sunday; BUT NONE '~prove that Jesus rose early on that Sunday~'. Alan Hales, what you claim for truth, is not truth..~'

And this is what you, Allen Hales, wrote, not I: '~I have given you Biblical proof that Jesus rose on a Sunday.~'

You gave NO '~Biblical proof that Jesus rose on a Sunday.~'

If you say I contradicted myself, you say that YOU contradict YOU, Allen Hales! Allen Hales believes the gospel of Saint Erroneous instead of the Bible's Gospel. For the second time, no, for the umpteenth time, Alan Hales, what you claim for truth, is NOT truth!

 Jesus rose on a Sunday. Mk 16: 1 & v9. You can't get the "Third day" from Friday to Saturday. Your problem is, You believe the gospel according to St Erroneous, instead of the Biblical gospels. You are indeed a false teacher.

[Retrobyter]

On 8/16/2018 at 11:47 PM, gerhard eber said:

detailed extensive research, here, http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book 2. Resurrection.pdf

In short,

'Sabbatohn' 'Day of the Sabbath' Genitive Noun...

"Sabbath" = Sabbath's-time = on the Sabbath = while Sabbath = in the Sabbath.

Classic example of both the correct and the corrupted 'version' is the Dutch Staatenbybel, relying heavily on Tyndale, at first with Matthew 28:1, "Sabbat" - just that, "Sabbath there was a great earthquake and the angel of the Lord descended..." The translators soon realised the impossibility of a Sunday resurrection, and even quicker 'solved' their problem with inserting brackets and an, in the Greek non-existent Preposition,  'na' - 'after' which required a conflicting Accusative case; like this, '~[Na] Sabbat...~' IRONIC proving the real meaning, while themselves, frauds!

"Sabbath('s) mid-afternoon" - "in the Sabbath('s) mid-afternoon"

'tehi' - "in the", Article Dative Feminine 'tehi epiphohskousehi'

'epiphohskousehi' - "mid-afternoon"

Syllable by syllable... 'epi' - 'phohs' - '-k-' - 'ous' - 'ehi' 

'epi' - "centre" / "mid" + "very" (emphasis) "over(head)" + "downwards" + "inclining (over to)"

'ous' - from 'eimi' - 'to be' Participle, "being"

'ehi' - Feminine Dative Suffix of the Noun 'epiphohskousehi', "in the ..."

'phohs' "...light" = "...day" = "daylight" = "daylight (sun) shining down upon..."

To this must directly be connected the Adverb 'opse' - as with Genitive, "late on", and or as with Ablative, "in the end of", therefore, "Late on the Sabbath in the Sabbath('s) mid-afternoon" / "In fullness / ripeness of the Sabbath Day being in its mid-afternoon".

 

On 8/17/2018 at 12:31 AM, gerhard eber said:

Almost all Greek letters are very much the same in English in form and sound. The most important sound differences are with the long and short vowels. Just write an h after the short (English) vowel to make it long, an 'o' for the o-mikron; 'oh' for the o-mega; 'e' for e-psilon, 'eh' for ehtha, etc. For a few exception the English letters do the job.

I was much derided at first for my method, but nowadays most of the big mouths are silent. Who in any case cares what rules used to confuse everyone in the past? All sorts of impossible '~methods of transliteration~' have been improvised. My 'method', is simple; simplicity and as near as possible literalness are all I wanted and am pretty sure of have succeeded in getting.

Shabbat shalom, gerhard eber.

Okay, I now understand your transliteration scheme. Essentially, your method is similar to my method except where you add the "-h" in both instances, I simply double the letter:

e = e = e = epsilon
eh = ee = ē = eta (or as you write it, "ehtha")
o = o = o = omicron
oh = oo = ō = omega

Some methods will put a long vowel mark over the vowel to represent the longer Greek vowel and omit the mark over the shorter Greek vowel (e, ē, o, and ō). These require more work for me to produce; so, I've opted to use Biblesoft's method of transliteration for PC Study Bible's interlinear text, instead. (I also have opted not to show the iota-subscript. Therefore, I write, "tee epifooskousee," writing the SOUND of "phi" as an "f.") You'll receive no derision from me for the method of transliteration you choose to use.

 

Regarding the translation you attempt to explain for Matthew 28:1, you've made an assumption from your opinion: "The translators soon realised the impossibility of a Sunday resurrection, and even quicker 'solved' their problem with inserting brackets and an, in the Greek non-existent Preposition,  'na' - 'after' which required a conflicting Accusative case...."

MAYBE (and quite PROBABLY) they did nothing of the sort, subconsciously realizing that there was absolutely NO such "impossibility" since, for the Jews, "Sunday" or rather "the first (day) of the week (mian sabbatoon)," starts at SUNDOWN on what we call "Saturday night!"

"Epi," by the way (and you should know this already), means "above," "over," or "upon!" It does NOT mean "center" or "middle!" The word "meso" means "middle" or "center." The only word you COULD have used correctly would have been "OVER(head)!" in your explanation of the word "epifooskousee." But, you should also be aware of the fact that the "light" could be "OVER," "ABOVE," or "UPON" the HORIZON! This would make the timing "SUN-UP," or"DAWN," not "the middle of the afternoon (mid-afternoon)" or even "the middle of the day," which is when the sun is truly "OVERhead."

And, you never did answer my question about which Greek version you were using. That's okay, though. I think I figured out where you got your information.

Therefore, I cannot agree to your "detailed extensive research." I think, like Bugs Bunny, you "took a wrong turn at Albuquerque," and wound up in Timbuktu! Luv ya, tho', bro'!

[gerhard eber]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Some methods will put a long vowel mark over the vowel to represent the longer Greek vowel and omit the mark over the shorter Greek vowel (e, ē, o, and ō). These require more work for me to produce; so, I've opted to use Biblesoft's method of transliteration for PC Study Bible's interlinear text, instead. (I also have opted not to show the iota-subscript. Therefore, I write, "tee epifooskousee," writing the SOUND of "phi" as an "f.") You'll receive no derision from me for the method of transliteration you choose to use.

Wonderful!

Please consider a few things more. Dana and Manty have a very understandable chapter on orthography.

About the double letters. I did that to transliterate into Afrikaans, but only Afrikaans blokes may be happy with it. One wants the representation result in the same sound as the Greek -- as near as possible of course. The double 'ee' does it perfectly; the double 'aa' for the 'ã' as well, but there’s no need for it; the double 'oo' does not sound like the o-mega at all … and so on.

Practicality is the main thing. Therefore, make the Greek word writable and typable especially for internet use; and that means not to use the little Greek gadgets under and above letters. I don’t think you need to do more work on that.

Second thing for me is, one’s ‘method’ must be usable and the same in different languages. So I gave up on my phonetically Afrikaans transcribing. Transcription helps the user who has a working semantic and linguistic knowledge of English. Other readers must get that basis first. It’s not the transcriber’s worry.

Unlike you, I have opted to show the ehtha-iota-subscript ‘i’, ‘ehi’ because it makes a distinct difference to sound while the Dative must be distinguished for its meaning. It cannot be guessed.

‘F’ like ‘X’ (Xristos) is more Greek; but ‘ph’ like ‘ch’ (charis) is more English, and transcribing is for the non-Greek.

 

 

[Retrobyter]

4 minutes ago, gerhard eber said:

Wonderful!

Please consider a few things more. Dana and Manty have a very understandable chapter on orthography.

About the double letters. I did that to transliterate into Afrikaans, but only Afrikaans blokes may be happy with it. One wants the representation result in the same sound as the Greek -- as near as possible of course. The double 'ee' does it perfectly; the double 'aa' for the 'ã' as well, but there’s no need for it; the double 'oo' does not sound like the o-mega at all … and so on.

Practicality is the main thing. Therefore, make the Greek word writable and typable especially for internet use; and that means not to use the little Greek gadgets under and above letters. I don’t think you need to do more work on that.

Second thing for me is, one’s ‘method’ must be usable and the same in different languages. So I gave up on my phonetically Afrikaans transcribing. Transcription helps the user who has a working semantic and linguistic knowledge of English. Other readers must get that basis first. It’s not the transcriber’s worry.

Unlike you, I have opted to show the ehtha-iota-subscript ‘i’, ‘ehi’ because it makes a distinct difference to sound while the Dative must be distinguished for its meaning. It cannot be guessed.

‘F’ like ‘X’ (Xristos) is more Greek; but ‘ph’ like ‘ch’ (charis) is more English, and transcribing is for the non-Greek.

Shabbat shalom, gerhard eber.

Well, when I was growing up, we did little tricks with the English language: For instance, how does one spell "??" One answer was "photi." After some of us were scratching our heads, the answer was revealed:

"ph" in "phone," "o" in "women," and "ti" in "nation."

"Ph" is two letters while "f" is only one letter. If there was a single English letter that made a long "o" sound, I would have used it. If there was a single English letter that made a long "ay" sound, I would have used it. I use the "ee" for the "ay" sound and the "oo" for the long "o" sound, and after a while, I got used to it. Realizing that the "u" (upsilon) is the long "oo" sound in "moon" and that "eu" (epsilon-upsilon) is the "you" sound, I no longer think of "oo" as in "moon," but as the omega, when I am in "Greek mode."