Some Questions About The Temple and Kingdom of God

[PeteWaldo]

 

But then there are few quicker ways to empty the offering plates, a clear out a church today, than to preach repentance.

 

Not where I live and go to church, and most of the churches we relate to. 

 

I imagine churches around you are likely not that way, since you live in Africa, and the Lord is working powerfully around much of your continent. Different story in the west. Particularly with apostate institutions that are even selling out Jesus through interfaith pluralism. The kinds of institutions that are more interested in the politics and economics of demonizing Israel, and the carbon footprint of their "church", than in preaching repentance.

I'm afraid that the modern concept of the alter call may all too often understood by those who go up, as paying lip service to Jesus for a guarantee of salvation, and license to continue in serial sin since that "salvation" is believed irrevocable. But likely were never saved in the first place since they were unrepentant for more than a short while.

Even the famous sorcerer Simon Magus got baptized.

Edited November 10, 2014 by PeteWaldo

[OneLight]

Now I can see why your posts make no sense to me. Please, do us all the pleasure of outlining in a timeline where every one of the events in Revelation occurred, from the first seal to the last bowl. This will save many hours of back and forth posting trying to garner information of what you believe.

So are you saying that you believe that Jesus prophesied falsely, when He told those standing before Him, that some of them would not die before they saw the Son of Man come in His kingdom? Didn't you yourself post:

 

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world.....

 

So what are you saying? Oh gee I meant the other kingdom of God? If you don't think that Jesus Christ is ruling and reigning over you, in His kingdom today, you might need to review your relationship with Him.

No, that is not what I am saying and you really need to check your flesh with that judgmental attitude. His Kingdom is within us. His Holy Spirit is in us, sealing us for the day of redemption. Salvation has absolutely nothing to do with His second coming, the seals/trumpets/bowls, the millennium, the New Heaven and New earth or the New Jerusalem.

Now, what I asked for is not a bible teaching, but a timeline of what happened when. You are claiming that Christ has been reigning (as He will in the millennium) for the past 2000 years, which was only to last for the 1000 years, so I was asking for the proof. When was Satan bound in chains and cast into the bottomless pit? When did the tribulation happen? When did the rapture, or being caught up, happen? Also, if you see some prophecy being fulfilled in the future, then say so. I would like to have dates pointing to each event that is to take place before He returns.

Now, if a discussion of this type is something you cannot do without attacking someone, then perhaps this is not a thread for you.

[PeteWaldo]

 

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

Or is it you that denies that Jesus came in His kingdom, before some of those standing before Him died in the first century, just as He promised them He would?

 

 

I don't deny it....I deny your interpretation of it.

 

I believe that if i were to suggest that literal verse, within that literal passage, that is quoting Jesus' literal words, indicates something other than what Jesus Himself said, it wouldn't be an "interpretation" but a lie. My brother and companion the prophet John and I, are in the kingdom of Jesus Christ, today. Seems you don't want to join us.

So what is your "interpretation" of that literal verse?

Edited November 11, 2014 by PeteWaldo

[Guest]

Holy Spirit Of The Living God

 

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:6-8

 

Fall Afresh

 

Now also when I am old and grayheaded, O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation, and thy power to every one that is to come. Psalms 71:18

 

On Me

 

But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. John 20:31

 

~

  

 

....parroted a "sinner's prayer" after making a "decision"....

Billy Graham

 

Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe You died for my sins and rose from the dead. I turn from my sins and invite You to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You as my Lord and Savior. In Your Name.

Amen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinner's_prayer

 

Campus Crusade for Christ

 

Lord Jesus, I need You. Thank You for dying on the cross for my sins. I open the door of my life and receive You as my Savior and Lord. Thank You for forgiving my sins and giving me eternal life. Take control of the throne of my life. Make me the kind of person You want me to be. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinner's_prayer

 

God

 

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 10:8-11

 

And The Winner

 

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 1 Corinthians 1:30

 

Is....

 

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 2 Thessalonians 2:13

 

Jesus~!

 

....there are few quicker ways to empty the offering plates, to clear out a church today, than to preach repentance.

 

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

 

Do you think there is any shortage of people who have deceived themselves into believing they are Christian?

 

What if by simply parroting those words they believe they are "once saved always saved"?

 

 

Beloved

 

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

 

it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please,

 

and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isaiah 55:11

 

What If

 

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:

 

for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said,

 

and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Joel 2:32

 

It Is True

 

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13

 

God Would Never Deceive

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me,

 

hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;

 

but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24

 

Those Who Trust

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you,

 

He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

 

In Him?

 

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:

 

he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

 

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

 

Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

 

[PeteWaldo]

 

 

Now I can see why your posts make no sense to me. Please, do us all the pleasure of outlining in a timeline where every one of the events in Revelation occurred, from the first seal to the last bowl. This will save many hours of back and forth posting trying to garner information of what you believe.

So are you saying that you believe that Jesus prophesied falsely, when He told those standing before Him, that some of them would not die before they saw the Son of Man come in His kingdom? Didn't you yourself post:

 

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world.....

 

So what are you saying? Oh gee I meant the other kingdom of God? If you don't think that Jesus Christ is ruling and reigning over you, in His kingdom today, you might need to review your relationship with Him.

 

No, that is not what I am saying and you really need to check your flesh with that judgmental attitude. His Kingdom is within us. His Holy Spirit is in us, sealing us for the day of redemption. Salvation has absolutely nothing to do with His second coming, the seals/trumpets/bowls, the millennium, the New Heaven and New earth or the New Jerusalem.

Now, what I asked for is not a bible teaching, but a timeline of what happened when. You are claiming that Christ has been reigning (as He will in the millennium) for the past 2000 years, which was only to last for the 1000 years, so I was asking for the proof. When was Satan bound in chains and cast into the bottomless pit? When did the tribulation happen? When did the rapture, or being caught up, happen? Also, if you see some prophecy being fulfilled in the future, then say so. I would like to have dates pointing to each event that is to take place before He returns.

Now, if a discussion of this type is something you cannot do without attacking someone, then perhaps this is not a thread for you.

 

No, that is not what I am saying and you really need to check your flesh with that judgmental attitude.

What

 

 

If that was a reference to my last suggestion, there seems no shortage of folks that think Christ ruling and reigning with a rod of iron, is reserved for some future someday. If it was in regard to my suggesting you were indicating: "Oh gee I meant the other kingdom of God?" it seems to me that you basically just repeated it. Regarding the flesh, from where I stand in the kingdom, I see that obsession with those who believe the temple Christ built nearly 2,000 years ago to be so insufficient that a temple built by the hands of men would be needed - even as you must readily admit that the NT informs us that God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands.

 

His Kingdom is within us. His Holy Spirit is in us, sealing us for the day of redemption.

 

I agree. What might have made that even more complete, is to add that Christ and His people are the temple of God in that kingdom, ever since He built His temple nearly 2,000 years ago.

 

Now, what I asked for is not a bible teaching, but a timeline of what happened when.

 

We will not be well served by distracting ourselves and wasting time with interpretation of figurative language of John's prophetic vision that is widely open to interpretation before first becoming grounded in the literal language of literal verses in the New Testament, that are not open to interpretation.

 

You are claiming that Christ has been reigning (as He will in the millennium) for the past 2000 years, which was only to last for the 1000 years, so I was asking for the proof.

 

This is an example of how we would waste our time if we began with the figurative language of prophetic dreams. Within this same post you recognize that the kingdom of Jesus Christ is within us, from a literal verse and passage, but then in the very same post turn around and seek to nullify that, by illustrating that your interpretation of the figurative language of John's prophetic vision has you awaiting some future kingdom of this world, of some future someday instead.

Perhaps the kingdom of Jesus Christ that the prophet John and I are brothers and companions in, just doesn't seem good enough, for someone that desires a kingdom and temple of the flesh in this world.

So how is your believing in both not saying "Gee I meant the other kingdom!"

 

Your indicating that Rev 20 can only mean a thousand years, is how folks wander off into error. Which I explained to another poster earlier:

 

Further, as I already expressed in the thread on the subject the Greek word for a single 1000 is "chilias", but the word used in Rev 20 is "chilioi" which is an indefinite plural, that could indicate many thousands. This doesn't mean that it can't indicate a single thousand, but If something as important as a whole doctrine surrounding a single future thousand year reign were meant, don't you think "chilias" would have been a better choice?

 

Maybe you were deceived into believing that indefinite plural, provided some sort of "proof" of a necessarily specific future single one-thousand year reign, but as you can see it doesn't.

 

You requested "proof" regarding Christ's invisible kingdom, for which by it's nature "proof" does not exist, nor can I provide any (except perhaps through anecdotal testimony of folks with near death experiences, and those whom have had conversations with Jesus and such).

My understanding is reached through the scriptural evidence that the OP and my posts have been larded with - that even you embellished with more scripture from Mark that confirms that the kingdom of God is within us.

 

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world.....

 

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

 

So is the kingdom of God of this world or not?

Is the kingdom of God within us or not?

Are God and His people His temple or not?

Is that the true tabernacle that the Lord pitched and not man, or not?

Edited November 11, 2014 by PeteWaldo

[Last Daze]

Why can't there be a dual fulfillment?  A spiritual and a natural?

[PeteWaldo]

Why can't there be a dual fulfillment?  A spiritual and a natural?

 

The "why" of your question was answered by the literal verses from the NT, that were posted immediately before your question. Even included the same emphasis:

 

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world.....

 

Does anything seem ambiguous about that plain literal language from literal verses?

Should folks seek to nullify that literal language that is not open to interpretation, with an interpretation of the figurative language of a prophetic vision that is widely open to interpretation, that is specifically contradicted by the truth of those literal verses?

Edited November 11, 2014 by PeteWaldo

[Enoch2021]

 

 

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

Or is it you that denies that Jesus came in His kingdom, before some of those standing before Him died in the first century, just as He promised them He would?

 

 

I don't deny it....I deny your interpretation of it.

 

I believe that if i were to suggest that literal verse, within that literal passage, that is quoting Jesus' literal words, indicates something other than what Jesus Himself said, it wouldn't be an "interpretation" but a lie. My brother and companion the prophet John and I, are in the kingdom of Jesus Christ, today. Seems you don't want to join us.

So what is your "interpretation" of that literal verse?

 

 

 

========================================================================================================

 

For the 4th Time:  So what is your "interpretation" of these literal verses?....

(Luke 1:31-32) "And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.  {32} He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:"

 

(Acts 15:13-16) " And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:  {14} Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.  {15} And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,  {16} After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:"

 

(Amos 9:11) "In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:"

 

 

As I said, for "your" thesis to hold any water, you must show Christ ruling from here.  If not, your position is colossally Untenable.

 

 

 

So what is your "interpretation" of that literal verse?

 

(Matthew 16:28) " Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

 

 

Well I think the "some standing here" and what Jesus was describing happens in the very next verse....

 

(Matthew 17:1-3) "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,  {2} And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.  {3} And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him."

 

As I alluded to before in previous posts (SEE: "Kingdom of Heaven" and "Kingdom of GOD" and "FROM"), the "Kingdom" that Jesus is referring to above and in other passages (John and Luke) is quite obviously not the same as...

 

(Daniel 2:44-45) "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.  {45} Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure."

 

So, you also must show: Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome being broke in pieces and consumed by this Kingdom....hereafter.  These Kingdoms continue to exist.

 

 

And last but not least, Your "Timeline" please.....

 

 

"Timeline"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->

 

 

We need to see the events of Revelation, satan bound for a thousand (or Thousands of years   ), Christ Ruling from The Throne of David......?

[Guest]

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

Or is it you that denies that Jesus came in His kingdom, before some of those standing before Him died in the first century, just as He promised them He would?

 

I don't deny it....I deny your interpretation of it.

 

I believe that if i were to suggest that literal verse, within that literal passage,

 

that is quoting Jesus' literal words, indicates something other than what Jesus Himself said,

 

it wouldn't be an "interpretation"

 

but a lie....

 

....So what is your "interpretation" of that literal verse?

 

 

It Literally Happened

 

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. Matthew 17:1-2

 

And All Will See

 

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:26-27

 

It Happen

 

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7

 

Again

 

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

 

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

 

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

 

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Revelation 6:14-17

 

~

 

My brother and companion the prophet John and I,

 

are in the kingdom of Jesus Christ, today.

 

Seems you don't want to join us.

 

 

Dear One, Say Hi To John The Beloved For Me

 

And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death.

 

And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran,

 

and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

 

Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words. Deuteronomy 33:1-3

 

I'll Be Up There Soon Enough

 

As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. Psalms 42:1

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[PeteWaldo]

 

 

 

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

Or is it you that denies that Jesus came in His kingdom, before some of those standing before Him died in the first century, just as He promised them He would?

 

 

I don't deny it....I deny your interpretation of it.

 

I believe that if i were to suggest that literal verse, within that literal passage, that is quoting Jesus' literal words, indicates something other than what Jesus Himself said, it wouldn't be an "interpretation" but a lie. My brother and companion the prophet John and I, are in the kingdom of Jesus Christ, today. Seems you don't want to join us.

So what is your "interpretation" of that literal verse?

 

 

 

========================================================================================================

 

For the 4th Time:  So what is your "interpretation" of these literal verses?....

(Luke 1:31-32) "And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.  {32} He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:"

 

(Acts 15:13-16) " And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:  {14} Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.  {15} And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,  {16} After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:"

 

(Amos 9:11) "In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:"

 

As I said, for "your" thesis to hold any water, you must show Christ ruling from here.  If not, your position is colossally Untenable.

 

Jesus is of the lineage of David and thus heir to his throne:

 

John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

 

If you're going to be literal with what you underlined, you'd be obligated to begin by telling us where the literal chair that David sat in is, wouln't you? A ridiculous suggestion, isn't it. Yet there's your literal throne.

We don't need to squander time or forum space with Darby's 19th century interpretation of the figurative language of that Old Testament passage, when there is a plethora of websites on the internet that you can avail yourself of, that will explain how it points to the very same kingdom Jesus ushered in, before some that were standing before Him died (who you yourself listed). The same kingdom throne and temple that I have been posting about all along. Simply Bing something like - build again the tabernacle of David.

 

Yet there you are, continuing to duck and dodge the literal language of New Testament scripture, through interpretation you have been taught of the figurative language of Old Testament prophecy. Even as you accuse the traditional understanding (as revealed in that web search) of that prophecy, as being "colossally untenable"! Your doing so shouldn't be a surprise, since that's the way John Darby constructed his pop-19th century eschatology - with a backwards approach. For pity's sake, the very foundation of his creation, is his interpretation of the figurative language of Daniel's 70th week, that spins into an inverted pyramid of pile-on presumption from there! That's the reason, that when you are confronted by literal verses from the New Testament, they become a witness against you.

 

Are you saying that Jesus built His temple in the first century, through His crucifixion, death and resurrection, but gee whiz, it just can't be that He came in his kingdom in which to build it? Perhaps He built it but forgot to furnish His/our temple with a throne?

 

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.  20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

I believe "the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said", do you?

Or perhaps you think He failed to build His/our temple altogether?

This isn't a "thesis" my friend.

 

Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

 

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

You even underlined it later in your post:

 

Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands....

 

What stone cut "without hands", is the cornerstone of the temple, that was built without hands?

 

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];

 

Mar 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

 

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

 

So does it make sense to you that proper exegesis of scripture (or any other literature that contains figurative language), must begin by first understanding the inviolable literal language of literal scripture, before we even attempt interpretation the figurative language of figurative passages of prophecy that cannot be allowed to contradict those literal verses and passages?

Edited November 11, 2014 by PeteWaldo