Openly Curious Posted November 21, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2014 Since God withhold forgiveness should we also withhold forgiveness ? Why or Why NotGod gave and sent us his only begotten Son to die on the cross "in our place" so that we through him could be forgiven and reconciled to right relationship with God the Father. You can read in the gospels about the cruel death that Jesus went through on the cross and on his way to the cross. Jesus gave his own body as the sacrifice for "our sins". He suffered the agony of the cross he laid down his own life and he paid the price for our sins that "we" personally could be forgiven. Jesus wasn't the one who sinned for he was sinless and no guile was found in his mouth he was that one spotless lamb. Jesus was not guilty of sin but took our sins upon himself and died in our place. Unforgiveness is a sin in the eyes of God. It is sin that seperates us from God and repentance that restores us back to God. Unforgiveness gets in the heart by others tresspasses and sins against us personally for various reasons, through tragedies, unjustice, being done wrong and the what not and if unforgiveness is not dealt with then it will grow into many things like in our speech, bitterness, anger and so on and will corrupt our spirits within us. We must leave vengence to God.What more can God give to mankind to show them his love than the sacrifice of his only begotten Son. There is only one mediator between God and man and that is Jesus alone. If we do not forgive others their tresspasses against us then their is no atonement for our sin(s) (unforgiveness) and tresspasses against God. Their is nothing more that God can do to show his love to us than he already has demonstrated through the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. If we reject that atonement then we reject God and his Son. Scripture is plain that if we harbor the sin of unforgiveness in our hearts and will not forgive others their tresspasses against us then he will and cannot forgive us our tresspasses against him. Because without the blood there is no remission of sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted November 21, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2014 Ok, in my view, when Jesus died for our sins, He died for all of our sins. There is indication in scripture that there is an unforgivable sin, but I do not believe the unforgivable sin is the failure to forgive others. That means that should we fail to forgive another person, in the New Covenant, that is not the unforgivable sin and our salvation is not in jeopardy. So, what does that statement mean? That sermon by Jesus was to the Jewish people who were under the Mosaic law. Jesus never taught against the law because doing so would have been violating the Mosaic law. This is related to 'Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who trespass against us.' In Judaism, from scripture, there is the day of atonement. According to Judaism, the days between Rosh Hashanah and the day of atonement was a time period called the Days of Awe. In Judaism from scripture, God has a book of life. This book of life is a book in which names are recorded. If a persons name is not in the book of life, they will die during that coming year. The writing of a name in the book of life is based on the actions of that person the previous year, and the most important action between two people is to ask forgiveness for anyone wronged and to forgive those who have wronged you. During the days of awe, the Jewish people would go to anyone wronged and ask forgiveness, and anyone who wronged you, was to be forgiven. If your deeds for the previous year were not sufficient, this action of asking forgiveness and granting forgiveness was viewed as probably sufficient for those who are 'weighed in the balance' to have God write your name in the book of life. In that scenario from Judaism and the OT, if you did not forgive, God would not forgive you. Jesus was teaching the law, and emphasizing sin. That is the way I see the verses in the NT. I do not believe that interpretation applies in the New Covenant. However, we are to forgive, and that is more for us as when you hold something against another, it can influence your thoughts and actions, actually causing a person to become stuck because of a sin against that person and the lack of forgiveness. Forgiving actually has the effect of freeing the person and allowing them to continue on in a life of service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted November 21, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2014 We are told by Jesus to forgive not 7 times but 77 times 7. Forgiveness is more for our well being than for the one who wronged us. God is a righteous judge. We are not - let Him judge what the other does or says - we forgive - as hard as that may be sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeinChrist Posted November 21, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 192 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 635 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/29/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2014 No, because God never withholds forgiveness, unless we first don't forgive others. As Kwik-Philly noted God forgive us if we forgive others; but if you don't want God's forgiveness, just hold a grudge against someone. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will the Father forgive you trespasses. Matthew 6:15 God never withholds forgiveness, but we as believers have a tendency to block His forgiveness with our petty angry against others. I know many will say you don't know the evil this person has done to me, and you are right, but if you are like me, it doesn't matter. Remember we as Christians have been given the Holy Spirit that make us (our body) the Temple of the Holy Ghost see I Corinthians 3:16; 6:19-20, this is such a great honor no words can express our gratitude, yet myself and I dare say many if not all believers have a bad habit of dishonoring that Temple in so many ways, how after all my failures can God still love and care for me, yet He does, and all i am asked is to forgive others, as much as I've missed up, this with the help of the Holy Spirit is no problem, but we need the Holy Spirit to help us forgive. Did paul forgive Ananias and Sapphira No, because Paul had nothing to do with Ananias and Sapphira. No, because God never withholds forgiveness, unless we first don't forgive others. As Kwik-Philly noted God forgive us if we forgive others; but if you don't want God's forgiveness, just hold a grudge against someone. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will the Father forgive you trespasses. Matthew 6:15 God never withholds forgiveness, but we as believers have a tendency to block His forgiveness with our petty angry against others. I know many will say you don't know the evil this person has done to me, and you are right, but if you are like me, it doesn't matter. Remember we as Christians have been given the Holy Spirit that make us (our body) the Temple of the Holy Ghost see I Corinthians 3:16; 6:19-20, this is such a great honor no words can express our gratitude, yet myself and I dare say many if not all believers have a bad habit of dishonoring that Temple in so many ways, how after all my failures can God still love and care for me, yet He does, and all i am asked is to forgive others, as much as I've missed up, this with the help of the Holy Spirit is no problem, but we need the Holy Spirit to help us forgive. Did paul forgive Ananias and Sapphira What difference does it make if Paul forgave them or not? They did not seek forgiveness, since they planed on lying to them about the money they kept. The point about them is, they lies to the Holy Spirit. Exactly, Peter was only pronouncing the judgment of God, upon Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-11. These two conspired together to lie to God, and hold back money which they had vow to God and the poor, and never once did they think of confessing their sins, I John 1:7; 1:9. We even see that Sapphira when confronted by Peter about the lie just try to cover it up, Acts 5:8-9. But before you go thinking that God wouldn't forgive them, the way the word read Ananias heart was filled by satan, see Acts 5:3; so yes God could and would have forgiven them both but it sounds like satan may have been their master, not the Lord Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted November 21, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2014 Paul wasn't even a believer and was not present for Ananias and Sapphira Since God withhold forgiveness should we also withhold forgiveness ? Why or Why Not That's not even true Wondering how much longer this game of I ask questions and you answer will go on? Obviously, justfaith assumes he has the answers by never answering any questions...at least that is how I perceive it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted November 21, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,244 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,658 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2014 Ephesians 4:32 NKJV And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ Jesus forgave you. Colossians 3:13 NKJV Bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. Forgiveness and love are attributes of God. When His Spirit lives in us, it is also becomes our nature to forgive. We are to be living epistles, demonstrating God's love and forgiveness. Jesus forgave even those who were crucifying Him while He was hanging on that cross. He in us also forgives. Holding unforgiveness turns into hatred and bitterness. These can destroy us. It is as much for our own mental health that we must forgive. This does not mean that we are to put ourselves or our loved ones in harms way. We should forgive but we should not be stupid. Some people are simply evil and should be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Since God withhold forgiveness.... Why don't you give us your opinion on the subject and open it for discussion that way? Please answer Fez's question. ~ Since God withhold forgiveness.... ~ Beloved, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3:7 Beloved, For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 Beloved, Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day. Deuteronomy 29:4 When Will You Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. Revelation 3:17-18 Ever As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:19-20 Learn Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Mark 8:38 ~ Jesus But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 Saves For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Beloved Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:20-21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 22, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,229 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,485 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 22, 2014 There is a cut off point with God Rom 1:22-32 Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justfaith Posted November 23, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 Paul wasn't even a believer and was not present for Ananias and Sapphira Since God withhold forgiveness should we also withhold forgiveness ? Why or Why Not That's not even true Wondering how much longer this game of I ask questions and you answer will go on? Obviously, justfaith assumes he has the answers by never answering any questions...at least that is how I perceive it I thought this was a place to ask questions ? Are you saying that all the questions you ask you have an answer too ? I ask myself over and over where did God come from ? Is there an answer to that ? anyway i just ask a question thats all it was nice chatting with you all if I knew every thing i will not ask questions do you know everything ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 23, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2014 Paul wasn't even a believer and was not present for Ananias and Sapphira Since God withhold forgiveness should we also withhold forgiveness ? Why or Why Not That's not even true Wondering how much longer this game of I ask questions and you answer will go on? Obviously, justfaith assumes he has the answers by never answering any questions...at least that is how I perceive it I thought this was a place to ask questions ? Are you saying that all the questions you ask you have an answer too ? I ask myself over and over where did God come from ? Is there an answer to that ? anyway i just ask a question thats all it was nice chatting with you all if I knew every thing i will not ask questions do you know everything ? What you did was make a false statement against God and His forgiveness, then tried to play on that. This is a great place to ask question, when they are not tied to false accusations about God. God always forgives those who repent and ask for forgiveness. You should of started by asking does God forgive sins, and then you would not of had to ask the question you asked. Starting off on a lie never ends well, which is why everyone has been telling you that you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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