Adams fault??

[Guest shiloh357]

Calling your interpretations of the Word "assumptions"

IS substantive in itself.

No, it is not substantive.   Showing me why they are nothing but assumptions is substantive.   We can lob the "assumption" accusation back and forth and get nowhere.   Try actually exegeting the passage and show why what I presented can't possibly be right.

 

 

You've couched your assumptions with a couple of

verses and then weakly.

 

Actually, over the course of the this thread, I have addressed a number of Scripturess.

 

Show me why what I said is weak.  I quoted them and showed what I saw in those passages.  Show me the weakness. 

 

 

Have the courage to admit that you misspoke or where

in fact wrong altogether.

 

You haven't' really given me any reason to believe that I have misspoke.  You simply parroted enoob and really have provided nothing of substance.   All you can do is lob accusations, you can't really refute the substance of what I said.

[enoob57]

I am reminded of the Scripture that knowledge puffs up... as all 'we' seek to know

how shall we escape this truth God has warned us of? The only way God has given is

to love each other beyond our capabilities by setting ourselves aside and allowing

The Spirit of God to take control of us... it is glaringly evident when we do not do

this! Peace is receiving the spit of another as though it never occurred I believe

this is where we all shrink to inability in this flesh to comply yet by our debt to

Christ Who did we must continue to try. Love, Steven

[enoob57]

Calling your interpretations of the Word "assumptions"

IS substantive in itself.

No, it is not substantive.   Showing me why they are nothing but assumptions is substantive.   We can lob the "assumption" accusation back and forth and get nowhere.   Try actually exegeting the passage and show why what I presented can't possibly be right.

 

You've couched your assumptions with a couple of

verses and then weakly.

Actually, over the course of the this thread, I have addressed a number of Scripturess.

 

Show me why what I said is weak.  I quoted them and showed what I saw in those passages.  Show me the weakness. 

 

Have the courage to admit that you misspoke or where

in fact wrong altogether.

You haven't' really given me any reason to believe that I have misspoke.  You simply parroted enoob and really have provided nothing of substance.   All you can do is lob accusations, you can't really refute the substance of what I said.

Here is the passages that speaks loudly against your stance

Matt 18:16

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two

more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word

may be established.

KJV

Now the only witnesses to this statement of Eve 'IS' Eve, Adam

and God... they have been sealed up by the great seal of Revelation

not to add or take away from the text that is written period.

So by taking a previous time recorded before woman was formed and

bringing that instruction list forward and saying that is all there

can be is the assumption. A hermeneutic would state where the Scripture

is silent so we must be as well! I presented you with a substantive

reason the first recorded lie was satan's. The fall of mankind was in the

eating not the speaking as this is clearly taught in Scripture! Had

it been the assumed exaggeration of Eve this verse would not be fulfilled

Matt 12:36-37

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall

speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words

thou shalt be condemned.

KJV

Clearly by the Genesis record it was the eating and not the speaking that

is brought into account... for certainly that day of judgment has fallen

upon all mankind

Gen 3:11-13

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the

tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? 12 And the man

said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree,

and I did eat. 13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that

thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

KJV

We all know by Scripture The Word is representative of The Son and 'IS'

superlative to all eternity in that Word... the very fact of the action

of eating being judged would desecrate that reality (if) the exaggeration

were in fact there first! Love, Steven

[thecrazychristianblog]

I totally agree with many of the posters already on here. The Genesis text places Adam close to, if not right next to Eve while the event occurred.

 

Other text in the Bible place the fall of man in the lap of Adam and in regards to the future, the Bible describes Jesus as the second Adam placing significance and symbolism in Adam not Eve. We no longer hear about Eve, at least in the sense where we are to continue to use her as a reference point for salvation which in my opinion is the point of scripture. To know God and be known by him. She played her role but ultimately it was to teach us all about God's divine order and that for sin there would be repercussion.

 

I too believe that the blame fell ultimately with Adam and ultimately falls into the hands of the head of the household which would be the man.

 

I think for me a bigger question is since God is providential wouldn't he have known before Adam and Eve fell, that they were going to fall in the first place?.

 

If so, why would He have created us all in the first place knowing that ultimately many would not choose Him.

[other one]

If so, why would He have created us all in the first place knowing that ultimately many would not choose Him.

To judge the Angels.

[enoob57]

I totally agree with many of the posters already on here. The Genesis text places Adam close to, if not right next to Eve while the event occurred.

 

Other text in the Bible place the fall of man in the lap of Adam and in regards to the future, the Bible describes Jesus as the second Adam placing significance and symbolism in Adam not Eve. We no longer hear about Eve, at least in the sense where we are to continue to use her as a reference point for salvation which in my opinion is the point of scripture. To know God and be known by him. She played her role but ultimately it was to teach us all about God's divine order and that for sin there would be repercussion.

 

I too believe that the blame fell ultimately with Adam and ultimately falls into the hands of the head of the household which would be the man.

 

I think for me a bigger question is since God is providential wouldn't he have known before Adam and Eve fell, that they were going to fall in the first place?.

 

If so, why would He have created us all in the first place knowing that ultimately many would not choose Him.

It is in His pleasure when death and hell are swallowed up and the new heaven and new earth

containing those forming the bride and the friends of the Bride Groom together with Him >then<

that question will fade into obscurity for the reality that 'IS' there... Love, Steven

[coheir]

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

[Guest]

I think for me a bigger question is since God is providential wouldn't he have known before Adam and Eve fell, that they were going to fall in the first place?.

 

If so, why would He have created us all in the first place knowing that ultimately many would not choose Him.

 

 

Because

 

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. Isaiah 43:7

 

God Is Love

 

For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. Jeremiah 29:11

 

So

 

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

 

He Loved Us

 

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

 

To The Uttermost

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

See?

 

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 8:15

[thecrazychristianblog]

So are you saying God can not judge angels himself so he needed us to do it?

 

 

If so, why would He have created us all in the first place knowing that ultimately many would not choose Him.

To judge the Angels.

 

[thecrazychristianblog]

@WorthyWatchmen

 

I am not sure the context in these very selective verses that are directed at very different situations, answers my question. 

 

we are made for gods glory, he wishes that none would perish yet still knowing the end and that many would perish and that many would not choose him, he chooses to continue to create people and and subjugate them to his ruling knowing that they will not choose him, then forcing them to pay an eternal price for their lack of belief?

 

I still havn't made sense of this yet. I believe in Gods sovereignty and ultimately in his justice. I have a hard time with this though.

 

I am not saying he is not fair. I am just saying that i haven't found a way to understand his purposes. Not that i need to, but still the questions remain. I believe that we are the glory of an almighty God. I also am starting to believe that God has from the begining knes who would choose him as we have actually be created to do so (john 10:27, Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 1:4,5,11).

 

This being the case, I wonder if even though God loves the world and wishes that none would perish, that the world and its inhabitants have only been created, ultimately, to be destroyed in efforts to gain the attention of the elect.

Edited November 26, 2014 by thecrazychristianblog