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Is believing and teaching that God has no Son slander?

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Guest shiloh357

Is believing and teaching that God has no Son slander?

No.  It is false teaching to be sure, but it is not "slander."  Slander or blasphemy is an attempt to injure God's reputation, to defame His character.

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Guest Butero

Even if it was slander, it is not an unpardonable sin.  Jesus himself said if we speak a word against him, forgiveness is possible. 

 

As far as what you said Shiloh about God no longer dealing with someone who won't repent, I believe that is true, but if a person was to come up to me and say they want to be saved, but can't because they don't feel God's presence, I still have to feel like they can be saved.  Why do they want to be saved?  Something must be tugging on their heart.  They may not feel the same strong sensation they had before, but that doesn't mean God won't forgive them.  Even Christians go through what we often call dry spells where we don't feel God like we do at other times. 

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Guest shiloh357

Even if it was slander, it is not an unpardonable sin.  Jesus himself said if we speak a word against him, forgiveness is possible. 

 

As far as what you said Shiloh about God no longer dealing with someone who won't repent, I believe that is true, but if a person was to come up to me and say they want to be saved, but can't because they don't feel God's presence, I still have to feel like they can be saved. 

If God is no longer attempting to call that person, they are not going to say that they want to be saved.   Without God calling us, we cannot be saved.  Jesus said that no one come to Him unless the Spirit draws him.   So if God is no longer wooing and convicting and moving on someone to be saved, it is highly unlikely and really impossible that they will express any desire to be saved.

 

Why do they want to be saved?  Something must be tugging on their heart.  They may not feel the same strong sensation they had before, but that doesn't mean God won't forgive them.  Even Christians go through what we often call dry spells where we don't feel God like we do at other times.

 

That's not the same thing.   We as Christians can have times when we feel God is distant, that our fellowship with God is waning and we have those spiritually dry spots.   But a person on whom God is no longer calling or convicting are being handed over to their depravity.   That Christians get concerned about God feeling distant is evidence that He is in  fact, working on their heart.  A person whom God is no longer dealing with just doesn't care about God or about salvation.

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Guest Butero

I understand your point about spiritual dry spells, but I was thinking more about going by feelings.  You have that guy I mentioned seeing at a tent revival saying he wanted to get saved, but because he couldn't feel God as strong as when he had first tried to call him, the man felt like God was no longer dealing with him, and he had committed the unpardonable sin.  He was going by feelings rather than faith, and Satan had deceived him into thinking he had no hope.  I have always wondered if he was ever taken aside and brought to the Lord, or if he remained lost.  Of course, there is always the possibility it was all an act to scare people into getting saved.  There was a time where I would have thought people would be to fearful to fake things like healings or testimonies to create a large alter call or increase revenue, but I know it goes on. 

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Of course, there is always the possibility it was all an act to scare people into getting saved.  There was a time where I would have thought people would be to fearful to fake things like healings or testimonies to create a large alter call or increase revenue, but I know it goes on. 

 

:thumbsup:

 

No

 

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

 

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

 

And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 2 Peter 2:1-3

 

Fear

 

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7

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How do you know you have faith?  How do others know you have faith?  It is only by performing the works which God prepared for us to do.  If you have no works then you have no faith, it is dead.  Faith without works is dead.  James 2:24-26  You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.  (25)  In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?  (26)  For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

 

Works affirm my faith.  They confirm the authenticity of my profession of faith in Jesus.  It's what draws a sharp distinction between faith and mere mental assent.   My works don't save me.  They don't get me into the Kingdom.  My works are a response to the grace I have received.  I am not working to stay saved.  Salvation from start to finish is 100% the work of God.  He is the Savior, not me.  I am not keeping myself saved.

 

Why do you continue to refer to the works I am speaking of when I do not claim my works do anything?  The works we do through faith are the works which God prepared for us to do.  Abraham leaving his homeland and going to the land of promise was a work God prepared for him to do.  Abraham didn't go because he decided it was the right thing to do.  He did it because he believed God. This doesn't negate the fact that in order to receive the promise He had to leave his home land.  If he had not gone then we would not have received the promise.  Same with his son Isaac, Isaac would not have been born unless he believed God and laid with Sarah.  What would have happened if Abraham would not acted on his faith that God would raise Isaac from the dead after he sacrificed him?  His faith would not have been proven before God, he would not have received the blessing, and we would not have received the promise of the Holy Spirit.  It was after Abraham did everything but kill his son that an angel of God stopped Him saying "for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son from me".  

 

Gen 22:10-18  Abraham stretched out his hand and took the knife to slay his son.  (11)  But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."  (12)  He said, "Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me."  (13)  Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him a ram caught in the thicket by his horns; and Abraham went and took the ram and offered him up for a burnt offering in the place of his son.  (14)  Abraham called the name of that place The LORD Will Provide, as it is said to this day, "In the mount of the LORD it will be provided."  (15)  Then the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven,  (16)  and said, "By Myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son,  (17)  indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies.  (18)  "In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."

 

His faith alone could not grant him the blessings and promises of God.  He had to act on his faith in order to receive anything God promised.  That is why Paul said in Romans 4 that it is those who follow in the STEPS of the faith of Abraham.  

 

Rom 4:10-12  How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised;  (11)  and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,  (12)  and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.
 

He even speaks about Abraham not wavering in faith when he was told Sarah would have a child.  The very chapter you use to stake your claim that what we do as a result of our faith has nothing to do with receiving the promise (eternal life, salvation, etc.) states why Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness. 

 

Why did Christ die on the cross?  He died on the cross to redeem us from the Law and so that we could receive the promise given to Abraham, the promise of the Holy Spirit.

 

Gal 3:13-14  Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"--  (14)  in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 
Why did he gives us the Holy Spirit?  It was so we through faith would be lead by the Spirit and not fulfill the desires of the flesh (that is to say be sanctified through the Spirit), demonstrating that we fear God, and receive the eternal prize, eternal life in heaven.  For it is the slaves of obedience who are called righteous and as a result will receive the eternal kingdom.  Romans 6.  For those who are lead by the Spirit are not under the Law.  When we act on our faith, being lead by the Spirit, then and only then are we no longer under the Law, for the Law is not for the righteous.
 
We must also remember to whom Paul was writing.  He was writing to the Jews because they were still holding on to circumcision as a requirement for receiving eternal life and wanted to enforce it up on the Gentiles.  Circumcision of the flesh has no value, but circumcision of the heart is everything.  This is what Christ does through the Holy Spirit.  If sin is still present in our lives then our hearts have not been circumcised.
 
Please stop using only a portion of the Bible to make your claim for your own well being.  
 

Justification and imputed righteousness.  Either there is a contradiction in scripture (Romans 4 vs James 2) or there is a misinterpretation of Romans 4.    James says scripture was fulfilled when Abraham's faith was joined by his works.  

 

James 2:22-23  "(22)You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;  (23)  and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.  Abraham's faith was not credited to him as righteousness until he acted upon his faith doing what God commanded him to do.

 

There's no contradiction.     Paul in Romans 3 and 4 is talking about our justification before God.   We are justified before God apart from works of any kind.   James is not talking about being justified before God.   James uses "justification" in connection with how we are justified in the eyes of men.  Our works justify or affirm our testimony in the sight of men.  Our works prove that our faith is real.    The problem is resolved when you understand that Paul and James are speaking to two different issues and are using the word "justification" in two different contexts. 

 

They are not speaking of two different things.  What you fail to realize is that James 2 states that it was Abraham's faith joined with his works that fulfilled the scripture stating his faith was credited to him as righteousness.  It fulfilled the scripture which Paul speaks of in Romans.  The exact opposite of your claim that what we do based on our faith provides nothing.  In fact faith is nothing without acts of faith (works) Righteousness would not have been credited to Abraham if he had not offered his son as a sacrifice.

 

Jas 2:20-24  But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?  (21)  Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?  (22)  You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;  (23)  and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.  (24)  You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
 
Paul was continually addressing sin in the churches.  He was chastising those who continued to sin, warning them about having to come with a rod to deal with those who had not repented of their past sins.

 

Yes, but nowhere did Paul tell them they were not saved.  Paul scolded them and God disciplined them.   But we know that when God disciplines us it proves that we are His children.   God disciplines the ones He loves. 

 

He loves all mankind and desires that all men would be saved therefore he disciplines (that is to say he instructs) all mankind.  He teaches through His Spirit us. 

 

Tit 2:11-14  For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,  (12)  instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,  (13)  looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,  (14)  who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

 

Furthermore we are taught that we might share in His holiness.  His instruction leads us to righteousness which brings about eternal life.  All of this is only possible if we accept what He has taught us in His Word.  If faith in and of it self leads us to salvation, why does the writer of Hebrews warn us to not come short of the grace of God?  How might we come short?  By not listening to and following His instructions.  If we do not receive His instruction then we are illegitimate children.

 

Heb 12:9-16  Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live?  (10)  For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness.  (11)  All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.  (12)  Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble,  (13)  and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.  (14)  Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.  (15)  See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;  (16)  that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal.
 
In no way does John refer to an individual who is practicing sin in a habitual fashion.  Even if you want to claim he means those who are practicing it doesn't refer to habitual.

 

Yes he is and it is borne out in the Greek.  In I John 1:4 he talks about walking in darkness and contrasts that with walking in the light in other places in chapter one.    Walking refers to how you order your life on a regular basis, which includes habitual practice.  He is not talking about committing an individual sin but rather living in habitual sin as a life style.  Walking in sin means to order your life after sin day after day after day. Its' the same thing in I John 3:9.   He uses the Greek word, poieo, to refer to those sin habitually on a continual basis.  It refers to the regular practice of sin, not just the occasional committal of sin.

 

First you are neglecting the fact that one must walk in the Light as He is in the Light and that in Him there is no darkness.  This means sin can not be present in the Light.   Second, I don't know what Greek dictionary you are using, because poieo means to do or perform, not practice.  I use both Strong's and Thayer's dictionaries.  Besides this you need to look again at the entire passage in chapter 3.  He starts off in verses 2-3 by saying that those who hope on being transformed as He is when He comes again they will purify themselves as He is pure.  Christ is 100% pure, no sin, therefore we as Christians must purify our selves of sin which is done by being guided by the Holy Spirit just as He did while on this earth.  He continues in verses 4-9 speaking of those who know and abide in God.  He says they cannot sin, not that sinning is impossible for them but that they can not know and abide in God and sin at the same time.  Then he goes on to speak about hating our brother saying in verse 17, "whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him".  This is a singular event, not something repeated habitually.  Finally he finishes the chapter by declaring who abides in God.  He says that it is those who keep His commandments.

 

1Jn 3:23-24  This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.  (24)  The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
 
One can no commit sin and abide in God at the same time, so how do you claim that even though we sin we abide in God and He in us?
 
How do you claim that the Bible does not say our sins are not cleansed if we walk in the Light?  Our sin is cleansed by the blood of Christ, if, and only if, we are walking in the Light as He is in the Light.  Have you not read 1Jn 1:7  "but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. It cannot be stated any clearer.

 

I was responding to your intitial misquote of Scripture when you linked walking in the light to being cleansed from sin.  But as even you can see in the verse you finally decided to quote properly, it is the blood of Jesus that cleanses us.

 

In that verse, the cleansing agent is the blood of Jesus, not walking in the light.  Your misinterpretation, makes your works the cleansing agent, making salvation depend on you and not Jesus and that is false teaching.      John is talking about walking in the light in connection with fellowship.  We walk in the light in community and it is the blood of Jesus that cleanses us from sin.  

 

I agree, the works (acts of faith) don't cleanse us from our past sins, but His blood won't continue to cleanse us of our past sins unless we are walking in the Light as He is in the Light.  There is a condition which must be met in order to continually be cleansed of our former sins.  Please read the verse again and my previous statements.

 

I ask again, if you are going to refute what I am saying please use scripture.

 

I am using scripture.  I am using the Scripture you quote to show you why your interpretations are completely wrong.   I don't pit the Bible against itself.  You are supplying Scripture and very poor interpretations of it, so I simply take the Scriptures you cite and put them back in the context in which they belong.  Simple enough for me.

 

Please read the passages again.  You have not proven anything about my interpretations being wrong.  You continue to claim that we don't have to be obedient to God in order to inherit the kingdom of God, which is not defended by any passage in the Bible.  There are no scriptures which state we will continue to sin.  I am sure you will likely point to 1 John 1 again to claim it does state we will continue to sin, but I ask you before you do to tell me what a person must do about their sins when they come to Christ.  I believe your answer will be that we must confess our sins when we come to Christ in order for them to be forgiven.  If it is, please explain to me how 1 John 1 applies to Christians for they have neither claimed they have no sin or have not sinned.  A true Christian will have confessed he has sinned, accepted Christ, and is now claiming to know God.  He can only make the later claim if he is keeping the commandments of God which are "believe that Christ is the Son of God and love they neighbor as thy self".  If he claims to know God but does not keep His commandments then he is a liar and the truth (Spirit of Truth) is not in him, 1 John 2:3-6.

 

 Believers need to know what they believe and how to defend it using God's word before they can truly be useful for the Master.

 

Which enables us to defend the truth against those who seek to pervert salvation by grace through faith alone in Christ alone into a works-based system of righteousness.

 

You have yet to recognize the works (acts of faith) we are doing are not our works.  They are those prepared for us to do by God.  Grace (Spirit of Grace) was sent to instruct and guide us so that we can obey His voice and do the works He prepared.  Because God has granted everything to us for life and godliness we have no excuse for not doing as He commanded.

 

Finally, Abraham receiving none of the blessings of God until he acted on his faith.  He received nothing for just believing.

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Is believing and teaching that God has no Son slander?

No.  It is false teaching to be sure, but it is not "slander."  Slander or blasphemy is an attempt to injure God's reputation, to defame His character.

 

 

If someone is claiming God has no son then that person is claiming god is a liar which would injure God's reputation of other's believed their claim, therefore it would be blasphemy. 

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Why do you continue to refer to the works I am speaking of when I do not claim my works do anything?  The works we do through faith are the works which God prepared for us to do.  Abraham leaving his homeland and going to the land of promise was a work God prepared for him to do.  Abraham didn't go because he decided it was the right thing to do.  He did it because he believed God. This doesn't negate the fact that in order to receive the promise He had to leave his home land.  If he had not gone then we would not have received the promise.  Same with his son Isaac, Isaac would not have been born unless he believed God and laid with Sarah.  What would have happened if Abraham would not acted on his faith that God would raise Isaac from the dead after he sacrificed him?  His faith would not have been proven before God, he would not have received the blessing, and we would not have received the promise of the Holy Spirit.  It was after Abraham did everything but kill his son that an angel of God stopped Him saying "for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son from me".  

 

Gen 22:10-18  Abraham stretched out his hand and took the knife to slay his son.  (11)  But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."  (12)  He said, "Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me."  (13)  Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him a ram caught in the thicket by his horns; and Abraham went and took the ram and offered him up for a burnt offering in the place of his son.  (14)  Abraham called the name of that place The LORD Will Provide, as it is said to this day, "In the mount of the LORD it will be provided."  (15)  Then the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven,  (16)  and said, "By Myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son,  (17)  indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies.  (18)  "In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."

 

 

 

Yes, God has prepared works for us to do, but that is AFTER we are saved (Eph. 2:10).  We are saved unto good works prepared for us.   It's referring to the sanctification process.  God works through and in us to conform us into the image of Christ.   You, however, teach that works are necessary to secure a salvation we have already receive that is false teaching and does not represent the authentic New Testament faith.  You are outside of Christianity and outside of Christ given that you trust in works for salvation and not in Christ alone.

 

His faith alone could not grant him the blessings and promises of God.  He had to act on his faith in order to receive anything God promised.  That is why Paul said in Romans 4 that it is those who follow in the STEPS of the faith of Abraham.  Abraham didn't have to work for the promise. In fact, if you read Genesis 15, God made a blood covenant with Abraham based on faith alone.  Abraham didn't walk between the halves in that covenant, only God did.  Means that God alone was responsible for making the covenant a sure thing.  The Abrahamic Covenant was not based on Abraham's works or His conduct.   God doesn't share glory or credit for anything.

 

His faith alone could not grant him the blessings and promises of God.  He had to act on his faith in order to receive anything God promised.  That is why Paul said in Romans 4 that it is those who follow in the STEPS of the faith of Abraham.  

 

Rom 4:10-12  How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised;  (11)  and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,  (12)  and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

 

But that makes my point, not yours.  Abraham was justified 25 years before circumcision and 430 years before the law was given.  Abraham was justified by faith alone before God.  It is also worth pointing out that Abraham sinned miserably after He was justified by faith.  Had Abraham been justified before God by works, he would have lost his salvation when he lied (a second time) to the Egyptians about his marital status and he nearly gave away the wife through whom the promised son would come. 
He even speaks about Abraham not wavering in faith when he was told Sarah would have a child.  The very chapter you use to stake your claim that what we do as a result of our faith has nothing to do with receiving the promise (eternal life, salvation, etc.) states why Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness.

 

It was credited to Him as righteousness because he believed God, according to the text.   It doesn't say that Abraham was justified on the basis of what He did.  Abraham's works justified or affirmed His faith.   Romans 3-4 is a teaching on the universality of sin and justification by faith alone in Christ alone.  Nowhere in either of those chapters does it say that God saved Abraham on the basis of works, or that Abraham worked for salvation.  Nothing in those chapters support your godless and unrighteous theology.

 

 

Why did Christ die on the cross?  He died on the cross to redeem us from the Law and so that we could receive the promise given to Abraham, the promise of the Holy Spirit.

 

Gal 3:13-14  Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"--  (14)  in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

 

Actually what the text really says is that He redeemed from the curse of the law, not the law, itself.  The curse of the law, is spiritual death, separation from God.  It's the deadly results of sin.   That's what He redeemed us from.  The Law is not a curse, as the Law comes from God.   It is the law's condemnation of our sin resulting in spiritual death and eternal separation from God that Jesus dealt with on the cross.

 

We must also remember to whom Paul was writing.  He was writing to the Jews because they were still holding on to circumcision as a requirement for receiving eternal life and wanted to enforce it up on the Gentiles.

 

That is also not true.  Jews don't believe that circumcision is necessary for receiving eternal life.  That concept doesn't exist in Jewish theology and never has.  Paul was writing to the Galatians, Gentiles,  who had been infiltrated by a "Christian" Judaizing cult of believers who were placing circumcision as necessary for salvation.   He was not writing to Jews.   You really need to study the Bible a little better.   Your position is based on tons of misinformation.

 

They are not speaking of two different things.  What you fail to realize is that James 2 states that it was Abraham's faith joined with his works that fulfilled the scripture stating his faith was credited to him as righteousness.  It fulfilled the scripture which Paul speaks of in Romans.  The exact opposite of your claim that what we do based on our faith provides nothing.  In fact faith is nothing without acts of faith (works) Righteousness would not have been credited to Abraham if he had not offered his son as a sacrifice.

 

No, the are speaking to two different things.   James chapter 2 is not a treatise on salvation like we see in John 3 or Ephesians 2.   James is talking to believer about how their conduct should reflect their testimony.  He is not using the word "Justification" in a redemptive context, but in the context of letting one's works affirm their testimony.  You are confusing two different contexts  James doesn't say that Abraham was justified before God by works.   He isn't even discussing that idea.  The context of James 2 is set when James challenges the reader:  Show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works."   It's not about salvation being secured by works.  It is about salvation being demonstrated by works.

 

Abraham's faith was credited to Him as righteousness long before Isaac was born.  Abraham was justified by faith 25 years before he was even circumcised, long before he took Isaac to Mt. Moriah.  Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac is based on the promise of God made in a blood covenant.  It is based on Abraham's faith in God's integrity and His faith was strong enough to move Him to trust God even when it didn't make sense.   So your position is really based on a sloppy approach to Scripture. 

 

He loves all mankind and desires that all men would be saved therefore he disciplines (that is to say he instructs) all mankind.

Tit 2:11-14  For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,  (12)  instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,  (13)  looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,  (14)  who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

No, He disciplines His children.  Nowhere does the Bible say that God disciplines all mankind.  Outside of Christ mankind is judged, not disciplined by God.  That passage is talking about instructing believers not all mankind.   The "us" in that passage is the church.

 

First you are neglecting the fact that one must walk in the Light as He is in the Light and that in Him there is no darkness.

 

No, I am not neglecting that at all.

 

This means sin can not be present in the Light.   Second, I don't know what Greek dictionary you are using, because poieo means to do or perform, not practice.  I use both Strong's and Thayer's dictionaries.

 

Well that explains a lot.  But the problem is that Strongs and Thayers don't tell the whole story.  They give you a base meaning of the word, but the don't analyze how a word is used in a given passage.  Having said that, even Strong's indicates that perform and continue are how the word is used in certain contexts.   Greek scholar, Spiros Zodihates has this to say about this word used in I John:

 

Spoken of a course of action or conduct, to do, execute, exercise, practice, krísin poiéō (krísin [G2920], judgment), to do judgment, to act as judge, equivalent to krínō (G2919), judge (Joh. 5:27; Jud.1:15). Specifically of right, duty, virtue (Joh 3:21; Rom. 2:14; Rom.10:5; 1Jn.1:6; 1Jn. 2:29; 1Jn.3:7

 

Besides this you need to look again at the entire passage in chapter 3.  He starts off in verses 2-3 by saying that those who hope on being transformed as He is when He comes again they will purify themselves as He is pure.  Christ is 100% pure, no sin, therefore we as Christians must purify our selves of sin which is done by being guided by the Holy Spirit just as He did while on this earth.  

 

More false teaching.  We don't purify ourselves.  It is Christ who purifies us. It is His blood that purifies and perfects us and that has already happened, if one has trusted in Christ.  He does not purify us through our works, our efforts, but by the finished work on the cross. 

 

He continues in verses 4-9 speaking of those who know and abide in God.  He says they cannot sin, not that sinning is impossible for them but that they can not know and abide in God and sin at the same time.  Then he goes on to speak about hating our brother saying in verse 17, "whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him".  This is a singular event, not something repeated habitually.  Finally he finishes the chapter by declaring who abides in God.  He says that it is those who keep His commandments.

 

Sorry but you are not competent to interpret Scripture.  Your position is based on flesh and not based on the Holy Spirit.  God is not in anything you teach.  He says that they cannot continue in sin and that is borne in the Greek for anyone competent to handle it.

 

One can no commit sin and abide in God at the same time, so how do you claim that even though we sin we abide in God and He in us?

 

 

Grace isn't for the people who live perfectly.  If you think you live perfectly and sinlessly, then you don't need Jesus.  If Jesus is our perfecter and your efforts make you perfect, then one of you is unnecessary.

 

I agree, the works (acts of faith) don't cleanse us from our past sins, but His blood won't continue to cleanse us of our past sins unless we are walking in the Light as He is in the Light.  There is a condition which must be met in order to continually be cleansed of our former sins.  Please read the verse again and my previous statements.

 

The Bible doesn't say that.  You are trying to impose conditions not spoken of in the scripture.  It doesn't say that the blood of Jesus cleanses only when we don't sin.  If we don't sin, if we are perfectly sinless there is nothing for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from.    Blood of Jesus cleansing a believer makes no sense if the believer is as perfect and sinless as Jesus is, in the first place.  Again, you are a false teacher and all TRUE Christians need to reject your heretical views.

 

 

 You continue to claim that we don't have to be obedient to God in order to inherit the kingdom of God, which is not defended by any passage in the Bible.

 

The only ever connects our inheritance to our faith in Christ.

 

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

(Eph 1:11-14)

 

The indwelling Holy Spirit has sealed me until that final day and He is the guarantee of my inheritance which I receive because I am in Christ and believed in Him.  It is my faith in Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit that guarntees my inheritance according to that passage.   ]

 

You can try to trust in your works.   But I, on the other hand am a Christian.  I will trust in Christ alone.  That's what Christians do.

 

You have yet to recognize the works (acts of faith) we are doing are not our works.

 

You are trying to make a meaningless distinction.   It is an attempt whitewash the fact that a works-based system of righteousness places faith in personal effort and takes the emphasis off of Christ for salvation.  It makes one's efforts the object of one's faith and not Jesus.

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It is clear in Scripture that the stain of sin runs throughout the spiritual being

and the thorough teaching of Scripture is of such that even in the perfect rule of

Jesus in the millennium sin will be a factor of choice in the end...

"you must be born again" so that we rely not on the effort of self but on the actual

reality of newness not of this world but of God Himself in the perfect work of His

Son! The problem of a works based heart is that it gathers from that which is already

stained and ruined as though it were not! Love, Steven

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