do you speak in tongues

[xero]

Im not denying speaking in tongues at all. Babble is another story. Ive been using babble as ironic repetition. Do you see the irony? You need to have an understanding of tongues to see the irony which in itself is ironic and seals my contention. Im not an expert linguist but that doesnt mean I dont umderstand language. Wisdom is proved right by all of all her children.

[Hawkins]

From my own experience, I suspect that "tongue" could be totally something else.

========

From my experience and study, "tongue" could be something totally different from what we think it is. This could be heretic though but for your reference only.

"Tongue" is part of the off-body language for you to speak off-bodily and for others to hear off-bodily. Souls in Hades may speak this way, as they don't have a body. The main characteristic of "tongue" is that, no matter who speaks, you shall hear your own native tongue. Mostly you speak in your own native tongue while all others will hear their own native tongue respectively.

There are usually 2 symptoms when people with a physical body speaking in "tongue".

1. One tries to speak his own native language while God makes him speak off-bodily, and at the same time making all his audience listenning off-bodily. This shall be the case in Pentecost.

2. You (you could be gifted in this case) tried to speak off-bodily but by your effort somehow your physical tongue is out of control that your physical voice turns into gibberish to others who are unable to hear off-bodily. If God would like your message to be heard in this case, He might choose to allow one or several of your audience to be able to hear off-bodily to understand what you said, and in this case they shall hear their own native language respectively. In theory, you are still intending to speak your own native lauguage though in voice it appears to be gibberish.

("tongue" might have been ceased (?not sure yet) because most likely speaking in this way will leave physical evidence of His existence)

2 Corinthians 12:2

Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.

If you are ever brought to this state, you may have a clue about what I am talking about.

Acts 2

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”

[gdemoss]

If you are ever brought to this state, you may have a clue about what I am talking about.

I don't like to assume. Have you been brought to that state? Will you share any of the details if it could possibly bring edification unto us?

Gary

[godrulz]

Im not denying speaking in tongues at all. Babble is another story. Ive been using babble as ironic repetition. Do you see the irony? You need to have an understanding of tongues to see the irony which in itself is ironic and seals my contention. Im not an expert linguist but that doesnt mean I dont umderstand language. Wisdom is proved right by all of all her children.

Paul said tongues are speaking to God, not men. God understands all extant, extinct, heavenly languages. Some earthly languages are actually just a series of clucks and clicks, so just because they are gibberish to you does not mean they are to God/angels/some others.

[Floatingaxe]

Im not denying speaking in tongues at all. Babble is another story. Ive been using babble as ironic repetition. Do you see the irony? You need to have an understanding of tongues to see the irony which in itself is ironic and seals my contention. Im not an expert linguist but that doesnt mean I dont umderstand language. Wisdom is proved right by all of all her children.

Paul said tongues are speaking to God, not men. God understands all extant, extinct, heavenly languages. Some earthly languages are actually just a series of clucks and clicks, so just because they are gibberish to you does not mean they are to God/angels/some others.

[xero]

Every scripture used to "validate" "babble" as "speaking in tongues" is taken out of context. Its clear from the scripture that the words are unspeakable because its unlawful for the man to utter them NOT because theyre incoherent.

2 Corinthians 12:1"It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Acts proves my point that the tongues spoken are actual languages and 1 Corinthians 14:5 proves the tongues are interpretable by the speaker. I dont trust people who validate their claims stating "its the Holy Spirit and thats all there is to it you need a special relationship with God in order to understand" all while taking scripture out of context or reading into it whatever notion. Dont try to shame me or frighten me with erroneous accusations as if you are in better standing with God than I and that I should be condemned if I ask for proof of the Holy Spirit in what you claim as "speaking in tongues".

[Holy Joe]

Joe I believe anything is possible through Jesus Christ, as in the example Fez gave. The question that you failed to answer, is where in the Bible does it say those that speak in tongues have more faith then those that don't. I don't believe speaking in tongues is a measure of faith between Christians, less somebody through scripture can prove me wrong.

I believe that the Church (Believers in Christ) have different gifts to build up the body of Christ and the gifts aren't a measure of faith between believers.

Romans 12:3-8

English Standard Version (ESV)

3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. 4 For as in one body we have many members,[a] and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

Ephesians 4:11-13

English Standard Version (ESV)

11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds[a] and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,[c] to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,

I think you missunderstood me. I didnt say those speaking in tongues had more faith then those who don’t -- And to answer your question where does it say that in the bible? -- It doesn’t say that in the bible at all. I said it takes faith to do it, it takes exercising ones faith to speak in tongues is what I said. And I said the message in speaking in tongues is to the individual and that message is – it takes using your faith to accomplish that task. And I said most cant muster enough faith to even accomplish that simple task, let alone heal the sick, prophecy, or raise the dead.

All the gifts are open to all who will exercise faith to use them. We all have the same measure of faith, exercising that faith the issue.

And Ro 12:3-8 as you quote is perfect example of that measure of faith.

And in Ep 4:11-13 apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds, teachers, equip those for the work of ministry – but here is the kicker – 13. Until we ALL attain the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God and obtain the fullness of Christ.

When we receive in us the same thing as Jesus had in him as stated above in the fullness of CHrist then all of these things are added to you, nothing lacking. Having the knowledge of the son of God and obtaining the fullness of Christ is Christ in you. Same Spirit in you who was in Christ Jesus. Now if we have obtained His promise that He will come to us and be in us and that we will be like Him if we have obtained His fullness, then all of these gifts are at work in your being same as it was at work in Jesus no different at all.

A son of God is exactly that and the Father is not going to give something to one son that He isn’t willing to give to another. If one is a teacher and cannot prophecy it doesnt mean that he can’t prophecy, it only means he hasn’t received that fullness is all -- and stuck in his own measure of faith to do his task at hand. Christ in you is not limited to gifts, Christ in you is you working in Gods fullness.

Joe

Edited April 20, 2012 by Holy Joe

[Floatingaxe]

Joe I believe anything is possible through Jesus Christ, as in the example Fez gave. The question that you failed to answer, is where in the Bible does it say those that speak in tongues have more faith then those that don't. I don't believe speaking in tongues is a measure of faith between Christians, less somebody through scripture can prove me wrong.

I believe that the Church (Believers in Christ) have different gifts to build up the body of Christ and the gifts aren't a measure of faith between believers.

Romans 12:3-8

English Standard Version (ESV)

3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. 4 For as in one body we have many members,[a] and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

Ephesians 4:11-13

English Standard Version (ESV)

11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds[a] and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,[c] to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,

I think you missunderstood me. I didnt say those speaking in tongues had more faith then those who don’t -- And to answer your question -- It doesn’t say that in the bible at all. I said it takes faith to do it, it takes exercising ones faith to speak in tongues is what I said. And I said the message in speaking in tongues is to the individual and that message is – it takes using your faith to accomplish that task. And I said most cant muster enough faith to even accomplish that simple task, let alone heal the sick, prophecy, or raise the dead.

All the gifts are open to all who will exercise faith to use them. We all have the same measure of faith, exercising that faith the issue.

And Ro 12:3-8 as you quote is perfect example of that measure of faith.

And in Ep 4:11-13 apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds, teachers, equip those for the work of ministry – but here is the kicker – 13. Until we ALL attain the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God and obtain the fullness of Christ.

When we receive in us the same thing as Jesus had in him as stated above in the fullness of CHrist then all of these things are added to you, nothing lacking. Having the knowledge of the son of God and obtaining the fullness of Christ is Christ in you. Same Spirit in you who was in Christ Jesus. Now if we have obtained His promise that He will come to us and be in us and that we will be like Him if we have obtained His fullness, then all of these gifts are at work in your being same as it was at work in Jesus no different at all.

A son of God is exactly that and the Father is not going to give something to one son that He isn’t willing to give to another. If one is a teacher and cannot prophecy it doesnt mean that he can’t prophecy, it only means he hasn’t received that fullness is all -- and stuck in his own measure of faith to do his task at hand. Christ in you is not limited to gifts, Christ in you is you working in Gods fullness.

Joe

[Floatingaxe]

Every scripture used to "validate" "babble" as "speaking in tongues" is taken out of context. Its clear from the scripture that the words are unspeakable because its unlawful for the man to utter them NOT because theyre incoherent.

2 Corinthians 12:1"It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

This has nothing to do with the gift of tongues. It is completely erroneous to state that tongues is unlawful!

Acts proves my point that the tongues spoken are actual languages and 1 Corinthians 14:5 proves the tongues are interpretable by the speaker. I dont trust people who validate their claims stating "its the Holy Spirit and thats all there is to it you need a special relationship with God in order to understand" all while taking scripture out of context or reading into it whatever notion. Dont try to shame me or frighten me with erroneous accusations as if you are in better standing with God than I and that I should be condemned if I ask for proof of the Holy Spirit in what you claim as "speaking in tongues".

Yes, tongues given as a prophetic utterance to the assembly must be accompanied by the gift of interpretation, because God is taking to the people. That's pretty logical. That doesn't mean we have to have an interpreter when we are uttering words to God. That communication is directed in a different direction.

[xero]

@godrulz so beat boxing is also speaking in tongues. I know God is omniscient thats not even a question. Paul tells us speaking in tongues is for the edification of the church.