jewish beliefs and christian beliefs

[another_poster]

Ok so I have a question. Without doubt there are a number of Jewish beliefs that are accepted in christianity as being correct. This comes from OT and jewish understanding of it. So how do we decide that the Jewish belief is wrong if there is not really anything in the NT to justify declaring them as being wrong? Certainly if a NT passage explains their understanding is wrong then by all means that is good but why do we then say the Jews had no idea about the OT which is after all holy scriptures for Jews and that we understand better?

 

I do have some topics in mind in regards to this however I do not want to mention them as I don't want that clouding peoples views and shaping the discussion plus one of them would be controversial to question the belief. So I would rather people focus on interpretation principles and practice etc. 

[Guest shiloh357]

Your question is really broad and what the NT declares as wrong with regard to Jewish customs pretty much refers to the teachings of the Judaizers who perverted things like circumcision into a requirement for salvation.   The New Testament is written in the terminology of the festivals and the sacrificial system.   Many of the theological concepts have their origin in Hebraic thought. 

 

I would also point out that "Jewish belief" today isn't necessarily the same as what was in the OT.  Judaism as we know it, it not the religion of the OT and so when we talk about what Jews believe we need to keep that in mind. 

 

Jews are not a monolith.  There is no way to pigeon hole what Jews believe and never has been.  So unless you can be just a little more specific, it is really hard to answer your question the way you want it answered.

[charlesj]

another_post:

So, what do you have in mind about "Jewish beliefs?" Are you speaking of the Jewish prophets (16 prophets of the O.T.) or are you speaking of the Jews (the street people who say they are Jews)?  (We (and they) don't know from which tribe they are from due to God destroying their genealogies in 70 A.D.  From what I've read, 2/3's of the people in Jerusalem are descendants from Europe that became Jews and are not from the race of Jews. These Europeans became Jews by circumcision and obeying the law of Moses.   In 1970 the state of  Israel passed a law that in order for you to be a Jew your mother has be of the Jewish race.  

Your servant in Christ,

charlesj

Edited January 1, 2015 by charlesj

[Guest shiloh357]

another_post:

So, what do you have in mind about "Jewish beliefs?" Are you speaking of the Jewish prophets (16 prophets of the O.T.) or are you speaking of the Jews (the street people who say they are Jews)?  (We (and they) don't know from which tribe they are from due to God destroying their genealogies in 70 A.D.  From what I've read, 2/3's of the people in Jerusalem are descendants from Europe that became Jews and are not from the race of Jews. These Europeans became Jews by circumcision and obeying the law of Moses.   In 1970 the state of  Israel passed a law that in order for you to be a Jew your mother has be of the Jewish race.  

Your servant in Christ,

charlesj

Sorry Charles, but most of your information is incorrect.   The notion that most of the Jews are European not real Jews is an anti-Semitic lie.   Most of the Jews in Israel are actually born in Israel and immigrated into Israel from Arab countries.  Far more Jews are middle eastern than European.    As for Jewishness coming from the mother, that actually goes back to biblical times.   Tribal affiliation came through the father, but Jewishness has always been through the mother.   I don't know what you're reading, but whoever it is, they don't know what they are talking about.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings another_poster

    I am not sure what it is you are asking,as Shiloh said ,,,,your OP is quite broad "for now"-lol,,,,I trust you will get more specific & narrow it down for us......

   The only thing I would like to say,& I suppose it is just my opinion but other than the belief that lineage or legalism would be any requirements for Salvation I really cannot see that holding to customs or traditions could ever be "wrong".......I know many Messianic Jews that are Saved & know very well that it is through their faith in Jesus that they have received Gods Grace & yet they still celebrate the feasts & hold on to many Hebrew Traditions,I do not see anything wrong & I would think it is very pleasing to God to be Honored so beautifully.......................Praise & Glory to God                With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Spock]

Hey Kwik,

Regarding salvation: I wonder if the original poster was asking, is it possible for a Jew, who trusts in God, BUT DOES NOT ACCEPT Yeshua as the Messiah, for that person to be saved. I suppose one could make a case that salvation according to the OT was more than believing in Yeshua as Messiah since it was not clear who Yeshua was other than prophecies about his coming. I suppose a saved Jew before CHRIST was one who believed in God, apart from CHRIST.

We know Yeshua is God the son so how can you believe in God today but not believe in God the son? It seems unlikely today you could believe in God without also believing in his son.

But I wonder if he is asking this. Can there be devout Jews today who follow Torah religiously but have been blinded to the truth, can they be saved like it was in OT times?

[Guest]

Ok so I have a question....

 

Without doubt there are a number of Jewish beliefs....

 

that are accepted in Christianity as being correct....

 

~

 

Well Beloved, Truly Truly There Is No Question Left Within My Mind

 

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. Romans 3:1-2

 

That Jews Believed (Take Brother John For Insistence)

 

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

 

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:10-12

 

And That The Hebrew Remanent Will Believe

 

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Romans 11:26

 

Yet, Like Many So Called Christians 

 

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2 Peter 2:1-2

 

Most Still Will Not Believe

 

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

 

Their KING

 

And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. John 19:19

 

Yet

 

Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.

 

And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence.

 

And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

 

That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. Ezekiel 11:17-20

 

~

 

What A Time We Live In

 

For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but thou and thy father's house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this? Esther 4:14

 

Glory~!

[charlesj]

Hello Shiloh:

There is a lot of information on the web about the people in Israel.  As far as being "anti-Semitic" I don't think I have a drop of anti-Semitism in my blood, hope not.   When I hear someone say something like this (anti-Semitic) I think of Al Sharpton sticking his head out of the sand when a Republican says something, no matter what, Sharpton will scream RACIST!  LOL 

 

There is a good article on Huffington Post: regarding what I am talking about "mixed marriages" in Israel.   www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/12/Israel-civil-marriage-ban_n_3429764.html

 

God made a covenant with the 'house of Israel" (a remnant of Jews) when Jesus was on earth.  We call it the New Covenant, but if you look at the Greek word it is "kainos" it means "fresh."  The Greek for new is "neo" and not "kainos."  I believe that this fresh covenant is a restoration of the Davidic Covenant. (Ps 89:27ff)  Under this fresh covenant with the house of Israel the real Jew is the one "not circumcised in the flesh, but circumcised of the heart." (Rom 2:28,29.)

 

I love those fleshly people in Israel like I do any other nation of people.  Like other nations, the fleshly Jew MUST come to Jesus (Yeshua) for their salvation.

 

Yeshua is coming back to destroy "...those who know not God and those that don't OBEY the gospel."  2Thes 1:8  My question to you is "what is the gospel?"  And "how do you obey it?"   (many priests, sons of Aaron, OBEYED the gospel, Acts 6:7)

 

 

If you get a chance, read the book "Muscle and a Shovel" by Mikael Shank.  The book is very easy to read.  Over 15,000 people have come to Christ after reading it and 44 women prison inmates, after reading the book, confessed Christ and were baptized.

The book is a very good evangelistic tool.

 

Your servant in Christ,

Charlesj

 

.

Edited January 1, 2015 by charlesj

[Guest shiloh357]

Hello Shiloh:

There is a lot of information on the web about the people in Israel.  As far as being "anti-Semitic" I don't think I have a drop of anti-Semitism in my blood, hope not.   When I hear someone say something like this (anti-Semitic) I think of Al Sharpton sticking his head out of the sand when a Republican says something, no matter what, Sharpton will scream RACIST!  LOL 

 

You might not be anti-Semitic, but the notion that the Jews in Israel are not really Jews is part of a conspiracy theory that is very popular on anti-semitic websites.    Anti-Semitism wears many different masks and one of those masks is denying that the Jews are not really Jews.   Most of the Jews in Israel are not from Europe, actually.  Most are born in the middle east and those that immigrated from Europe are dead.

 

There is a good article on Huffington Post: regarding what I am talking about "mixed marriages" in Israel.   www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/12/Israel-civil-marriage-ban_n_3429764.html

 

God made a covenant with the 'house of Israel" (a remnant of Jews) when Jesus was on earth.  We call it the New Covenant, but if you look at the Greek word it is "kainos" it means "fresh."  The Greek for new is "neo" and not "kainos."  I believe that this fresh covenant is a restoration of the Davidic Covenant. (Ps 89:27ff)  Under this fresh covenant with the house of Israel the real Jew is the one "not circumcised in the flesh, but circumcised of the heart." (Rom 2:28,29.)

 

Uh, well that is kind of a misrepresentation of Rom. 2:28,29.  Paul's point is not that circumcised, ethnic Jews are not the real Jews.  His point was that being Jewish was more than an ethnic pedigree, that it  included being circumcised in the heart and not just in the flesh.  He was not claiming that unsaved Jews are not real Jews.

 

 

I love those fleshly people in Israel like I do any other nation of people.  Like other nations, the fleshly Jew MUST come to Jesus (Yeshua) for their salvation.

 

I agree.

[Willa]

The law is the schoolmaster that brings us to Christ. It is when we discover that we can't perfectly obey the law and that we need Christ to change our attitudes, that we turn to His indwelling Spirit to enable us to follow Him and fill us with His loving compassion.

At this point we change from striving to keep the 10 commandments and even all the dietary and social laws, to keeping the law of love which Jesus says fulfills all the law. We stop trying to be right and start demonstrating His love to others.

Jesus fullfilled the law perfectly on our behalf and conferred His rightousness on us when He took upon Himself our sins, so that we stand righteous and justified before God by faith, according to the law. According to practice, we practice the law of merciful love.

As far as the Hebraic form of worship, it's feasts are a picture of all that Christ did and will do for us, and a mirror of God's temple in heaven.