Christ's Perfection

[Mr Nice]

Was Christ perfect when He came to earth or was He made perfect while on earth? If you answer yes to the second half of the question, how was He made perfect?

Could Christ have sinned? If no, how was He tempted as we are?

How was He sent to the earth in the form of sinful flesh if he did not have all the charicteristics?

How was He able to offer Himself without blemish?

[Sevenseas]

What do you think?

[Mr Nice]

What do you think?

 

Unfortunately, a yes or no won’t suffice.  We have to look to God’s Word to find the answer.  I believe he was made perfect while here on earth as part of God's plan.  In the beginning God created us as completely faithful seeds.  But we turned from God, starting with Adam and Eve, turning into a foreign vine, the children of Satan.

 

Jer 2:20-21  "For long ago I broke your yoke And tore off your bonds; But you said, 'I will not serve!' For on every high hill And under every green tree You have lain down as a harlot.  (21)  "Yet I planted you a choice vine, A completely faithful seed. How then have you turned yourself before Me Into the degenerate shoots of a foreign vine?

 

Since Adam and Eve man has tried to declare their innocents, claiming their spirit serves God but their flesh serves Satan.  They say "It is hopeless! No! For we, our flesh, have loved strangers, And after them we will walk'  or 'It's hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart,' while God declared such an answer as appalling.

 

Jer 2:25  "Keep your feet from being unshod And your throat from thirst; But you said, 'It is hopeless! No! For I have loved strangers, And after them I will walk.'

 

Jer 18:11-13  "So now then, speak to the men of Judah and against the inhabitants of Jerusalem saying, 'Thus says the LORD, "Behold, I am fashioning calamity against you and devising a plan against you. Oh turn back, each of you from his evil way, and reform your ways and your deeds."'  (12)  "But they will say, 'It's hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.'  (13)  "Therefore thus says the LORD, 'Ask now among the nations, Who ever heard the like of this? The virgin of Israel Has done a most appalling thing.

 

Man has been unwilling to recognize they are still separated from God.  Adam and Eve loved God and served Him, but then the Devil came and tempted them through their flesh, and they gave in and were separated from God.  So we see on the one hand they, with their mind served the law of God, but on the other, with their flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:25.  This is why we needed a savior, but we didn't just need a savior, we needed someone to set the example for us to follow (1 Peter 2:21-25), showing that through God's help we can return and serve God completely, unlike what Judah and Israel claimed, saying it was "hopeless".  Man today still makes this claim that it is impossible, hopeless, saying we cannot completely turn from all of our wicked ways to serve God alone because our flesh is weak. However, Christ set the example showing it to be possible, by coming to this earth in the likeness (weakness) of the flesh in all ways (Hebrews 2:9-19), being tempted as we are yet without sin, Hebrew 4:15-16. 

If He couldn’t sin, what value would His example be to us?  It wouldn’t be worth anything.   It would be like a king walking through his subjects who were starving and destitute, claiming he was like them, that he understood their suffering and their desires when he himself lacked nothing.  The king could not sympathize with his subject’s weaknesses unless he truly lived as they lived with all the weakness of the flesh.

Why did He have to be tempted as we are?  He was tempted as we are so He could sympathize with our weaknesses and provide help in our time of need and so He could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.  What help would He provide? 

 

Heb 4:15-16  For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.  (16)  Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

Heb 2:16-18  For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.  (17)  Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.  (18)  For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

 

Would that help be forgiveness?  No.  What then?  It would be through providing a way out of every temptation, for we are not tempted beyond what we able, and God will always provide a way out of every temptation, 1 Corinthians 10:13.  He says there is nothing we can’t handle, but he ups the ante by providing the way out so that we really don’t have an excuse for sin remaining in our lives.  What is this way out and where do we find it?  We must look again to Christ and how He was able to resist the devil while in the flesh here on earth.  We know when He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness the Holy Spirit came down on Him and God said “This is my Son in whom I am well pleased”.  What was the significance of Christ receiving the Holy Spirit?  First we go to Romans 8:14.

 

Rom 8:14  For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

 

It was through the Holy Spirit that He was lead through the temptations from Satan without giving into the temptations.  This would be the same for all of His other trials and temptations.  The full acknowledgement of this is found in Hebrews 9:14 where it says “who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God”.  He constantly turned to the Father for His escape from the temptations of the Devil, especially when it came to dying on the cross.  In the flesh Christ desired strongly to not go through the beatings and the crucifixion, asking God to let the cup pass from Him.  But in the end He said not My will but Your will be done.   We see that Christ turned to God during these trials and not to Himself.

 

Mat 4:4  But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'"

 

Mat 4:7  Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

 

Mat 4:10  Then Jesus *said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'"

 

Mat 26:38-42  Then He *said to them, "My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me."  (39)  And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."  (40)  And He *came to the disciples and *found them sleeping, and *said to Peter, "So, you men could not keep watch with Me for one hour?  (41)  "Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."  (42)  He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Your will be done."

 

Even though He existed in the form of God He did not believe equality with God something which could be grasped.  We neglect when it says in John 3:16 God gave His only begotten Son that God commanded Christ to come.  He did exactly as the Father commanded Him so that the world would know that He loved the Father.  Christ chose to be obedient to the Father.  He could have said no, but he humbled himself being obedient to the point of death.  This is what makes His sacrifice so wonderful, majestic, amazing, etc.  He loved us more than He loved Himself and chose to suffer as we suffer in the flesh, giving up His claim/equality with God, being made a little lower than the angels. 

 

Heb 2:9  But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

 

He did this to demonstrate the true love He had for the Father just like Abraham did.  Abraham was willing to give up everything God said He would bless him with when he offered his son as a sacrifice.  Both acts of love, both brought about the blessing we now have in the Holy Spirit.

 

Php 2:5-16  Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,  (6)  who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,  (7)  but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.  (8)  Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.  (9)  For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,  (10)  so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,  (11)  and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.  (12)  So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;  (13)  for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.  (14)  Do all things without grumbling or disputing;  (15)  so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world,  (16)  holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.

 

Joh 14:30-31  "I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing in Me;  (31)  but so that the world may know that I love the Father, I do exactly as the Father commanded Me. Get up, let us go from here.

 

There is another reason why He had to suffer as we do.  He had to learn obedience through that which He suffered so He could become the source of eternal salvation for those who obey Him.

 

Heb 2:18  For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

 

Heb 5:8-10  Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.  (9)  And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,  (10)  being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

 

We must also take into account the reason why God exalted Him.  It wasn’t because He was sinless.  It wasn’t even because He died on the cross.  God exalted Him because He obeyed Him, resisting the devil.

 

So a quick rehash of the details.  Christ came to this earth in the flesh in all ways just as we are in the flesh. He resisted the Devil and offered Himself without blemish on the cross through the Spirit which He received when He was baptized (beginning of His ministry).  He was raised from the dead through the power of God (the Spirit who gives life) and He returned to the Father so that He could send the same Spirit which led Him to us so we can walk in newness of life and serve God alone, not giving into temptation.  No more being slaves to sin which results in death, but slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification, with the outcome of eternal life.

 

He came to this earth in the flesh so that He would truly be able to understand what it meant to be tempted (retaliation against those who persecute us for our beliefs and the desires of the flesh, Galatians 5:19-21).  He set the example for us to follow through the Spirit.

 

1Pe 2:21-23  For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,  (22)  WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;  (23)  and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;

 

He laid out the following path for us to follow:

 

·         Receive the Word like He received it from God

·         Be baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

·         Be led by the Spirit, leaning on the Word of God declared to us               through the same Spirit, so that we will not fulfill the desires of the           flesh.

·         So that we can present/prove ourselves:

 

Rom 6:13  and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

 

Rom 6:19-22  I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.  (20)  For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.  (21)  Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.  (22)  But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.

 

Rom 12:1-2  Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.  (2)  And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

 

2Ti 2:15  Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

 

Php 1:9-11  And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment,  (10)  so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ;  (11)  having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

 

Php 2:14-16  Do all things without grumbling or disputing;  (15)  so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world,  (16)  holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.

 

Unlike Christ, we have fallen even though from the beginning we knew there was a God. Therefore, there is one additional step required of us.  We must accept we have sinned against God, confess and repent of our past sins.   Christ died while we were yet sinners, while we were still helpless.  He didn’t live, die, and live again for us to remain sinners and to remain helpless.  Believing Christ died for us and receiving forgiveness of our sins is an introduction/access to grace.  Simply believing doesn’t work with God.  He expects a response from us just as He did with the world before Christ.  He expects us to obey His voice which is why He sent the Spirit, so that we have the mind of Christ.  Our bodies had to be cleansed of sin before the Spirit could reside.  If sin remains, if we have not died to our old ways, then there is no room for the Spirit.  Temptation will remain, but sin cannot. 

 

Rom 1:18-21  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,  (19)  because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.  (20)  For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.  (21)  For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 

Rom 5:1-10  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,  (2)  through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.  (3)  And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;  (4)  and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;  (5)  and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.  (6)  For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.  (7)  For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.  (8)  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.  (9)  Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.  (10)  For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

 

Christ could not have been the sacrifice unless He was truly made just as we are.  He had to truly be tempted with the desires of satisfying Himself (making bread, having all the kingdoms of the world, testing God by seeing if God would do as He knew God would), to seek revenge against those who persecuted Him, or saving Himself from the cup (the cross).  He knew that those who truly obey will suffer the same way He did and that is why He sent His Spirit.

 

This is why Christ had to be made perfect while on this earth, why He had to be able to sin. 

 

Follow up question for those who believe Christ came to this earth perfect, being unable to sin.

 

Do you believe Christ actually physically suffered?  If he couldn’t sin and He was fully God, do you believe He would have actually felt pain from the beatings and the crucifixion?  I would concur that God felt heartache because those whom He created despised Him enough to crucify His Son.  I would be willing to say Christ also felt heartache for man, knowing that if they don’t turn to serve the living God their fate would be worse than death.  But I could not agree that Christ actually felt pain if He was God.

 

To make myself clear, the paragraph above is for those who believe Christ could not sin.

 

Rehash of what I believe.  Christ did come in the flesh, He was tempted just like we are, was able to sin but did not being led by the Spirit.  He did truly suffer through all the pain of the beatings and crucifixion.  Because of these things He was made perfect so He could be our faithful high priest.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Mr Nice

[Guest shiloh357]

 

What do you think?

 

Unfortunately, a yes or no won’t suffice.  We have to look to God’s Word to find the answer.  I believe he was made perfect while here on earth as part of God's plan. 

 

How was Jesus "made perfect?"    Jesus was fully God and fully man and was perfect and sinless from the day of His birth. Jesus was perfect from the start.  He was not "made perfect."

 

Do you believe Christ actually physically suffered?  If he couldn’t sin and He was fully God, do you believe He would have actually felt pain from the beatings and the crucifixion?  I would concur that God felt heartache because those whom He created despised Him enough to crucify His Son.  I would be willing to say Christ also felt heartache for man, knowing that if they don’t turn to serve the living God their fate would be worse than death.  But I could not agree that Christ actually felt pain if He was God.

 

Jesus was fully God and felt pain.  Jesus' body felt the agony of crucifixion.  That does not mean that Jesus wasn't fully God.  If you are claiming that Jesus was anything less the fully God at any time while on earth, you are teaching a heretical doctrine.

[Guest]

Do you believe Christ actually physically suffered?  If he couldn’t sin and He was fully God, do you believe He would have actually felt pain from the beatings and the crucifixion?  I would concur that God felt heartache because those whom He created despised Him enough to crucify His Son.  I would be willing to say Christ also felt heartache for man, knowing that if they don’t turn to serve the living God their fate would be worse than death.  But I could not agree that Christ actually felt pain if He was God.

 

~

 

Yes~! Yes He Did

 

I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

 

My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death. Psalms 22:14-15

[Mr Nice]

 

 

What do you think?

 

Unfortunately, a yes or no won’t suffice.  We have to look to God’s Word to find the answer.  I believe he was made perfect while here on earth as part of God's plan. 

 

How was Jesus "made perfect?"    Jesus was fully God and fully man and was perfect and sinless from the day of His birth. Jesus was perfect from the start.  He was not "made perfect."

 

Do you believe Christ actually physically suffered?  If he couldn’t sin and He was fully God, do you believe He would have actually felt pain from the beatings and the crucifixion?  I would concur that God felt heartache because those whom He created despised Him enough to crucify His Son.  I would be willing to say Christ also felt heartache for man, knowing that if they don’t turn to serve the living God their fate would be worse than death.  But I could not agree that Christ actually felt pain if He was God.

 

Jesus was fully God and felt pain.  Jesus' body felt the agony of crucifixion.  That does not mean that Jesus wasn't fully God.  If you are claiming that Jesus was anything less the fully God at any time while on earth, you are teaching a heretical doctrine.

 

Christ was made perfect through the obedience He learned from the things He suffered.  Notice how the passage starts "Although He was a Son".

 

Heb 5:8-10  Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.  (9)  And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,  (10)  being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

 

Also notice to whom He became the source of eternal salvation.  It doesn't say to those who believed.  It says to those who obeyed.  

 

Christ was deemed a faithful high priest after He was raised from the dead and returned to the Father.  That is to say after He learned obedience from the things He suffered.  This was not a title He had prior to His death.  See below. 

 

Heb 2:16-18  For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.  (17)  Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.  (18)  For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

 

Obedience and faith cannot be separated, this is what made Christ perfect in the flesh.

He emptied Himself of that which made Him equal to God and did not regard equality with God something to be grasped.  This is also why He told the rich young ruler, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone".

 

Php 2:5-11  Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,  (6)  who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,  (7)  but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.  (8)  Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.  (9)  For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,  (10)  so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,  (11)  and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

Notice why God exalted Him.  It was because He was obedient even to the point of death. If Christ could not have sinned, then He could not have been disobedient, thus there would not have been a reason for God to exalt Him.  

 

Christ coming in the flesh as declared here is also why Peter said in 1 Peter 4 that those who have suffered in the flesh as Christ has suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin.  Notice that he is not speaking about one who died or those who are in Christ at His return.  He says that they live out the rest of the time in the flesh for the will of God and not for the lusts of men.  He also adds a statement about the time already past was sufficient for them to carry out the desires of the Gentiles (the sins of the Gentiles). They have followed the example of Christ in their walk with respect to obeying God suffering persecutions from those who are of the darkness.

 

1Pe 4:1-3  Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,  (2)  so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.  (3)  For the time already past is sufficient for you to have carried out the desire of the Gentiles, having pursued a course of sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties and abominable idolatries.

 

Heb 4:14-16  Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.  (15)  For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.  (16)  Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

This is why Christ had to be made a perfect high priest while on the earth.

With respect to Christ suffering, I do believe He suffered the pain and agony during the beatings and the crucifixion, but only because He emptied Himself of that which made Him God.  He was the Son of God but He made a choice for us, to suffer for us, by becoming like one of us.  This He could not do if He had not emptied Himself.  That is the difference.  Christ sacrificed everything including equality with God for us.  This is why His sacrifice is so great.  He gave up all so He could save us.  It goes far beyond forgiveness of sins.  Christ opened up the way and paved the way for us to follow.  That way is Christ Himself.  God has given us everything so we can follow the way.

[Mr Nice]

 

Do you believe Christ actually physically suffered?  If he couldn’t sin and He was fully God, do you believe He would have actually felt pain from the beatings and the crucifixion?  I would concur that God felt heartache because those whom He created despised Him enough to crucify His Son.  I would be willing to say Christ also felt heartache for man, knowing that if they don’t turn to serve the living God their fate would be worse than death.  But I could not agree that Christ actually felt pain if He was God.

 

~

 

Yes~! Yes He Did

 

I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

 

My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death. Psalms 22:14-15

 

I agree, but my reasoning may be different than yours.  See my response to shiloh for my reasoning to see if you agree.

[Guest]

Do you believe Christ actually physically suffered?  If he couldn’t sin and He was fully God, do you believe He would have actually felt pain from the beatings and the crucifixion?  I would concur that God felt heartache because those whom He created despised Him enough to crucify His Son.  I would be willing to say Christ also felt heartache for man, knowing that if they don’t turn to serve the living God their fate would be worse than death.  But I could not agree that Christ actually felt pain if He was God.

 

~

 

Yes~! Yes He Did

 

I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

 

My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death. Psalms 22:14-15

 

I agree, but my reasoning may be different than yours.  See my response to shiloh for my reasoning to see if you agree.

 

 

Beloved It Is Interesting~!

My Bottom Line Is

His Word Is

Always

True

 

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

 

And Even If I Should Try To Add To It

Or To Take Away From It,

God Be True

 

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,

That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings,

and mightest overcome when

thou art judged. Romans 3:3-4

[Guest shiloh357]

Mr. Nice, I just want to get some clarification...  Do you believe that Jesus, when He was on earth was both fully man and fully God?

[Willa]

The Hebrews passage about being made perfect means literally to be made complete. He was brought to maturity. He obeyed the Father perfectly even during ridicule, beatings, going to the cross and suffering for us. He said and did nothing but what He saw and heard the Father tell Him to do and say. He agonized in the Garden, His capillaries burst due to high blood pressure, causing Him to sweat blood. He was pleading that if there be any other way, let this cup pass from Me, but agreed to let the Father's will be done. He was fully man and had free will, but He chose to do the Father's will. He was our perfect sacrifice when He died on the cross as our Lamb of God, without spot or blemish.

As the cost of obedience increased, He continued to learn to obey is spite of suffering, till it was finished on the cross.. He could have called 10,000 angels to resecue Him but He completed His mission. That was perfection.

Yet He was Immanuel, God with us. Thomas bowed to Him as "My Lord and my God". He claimed to be I AM, Jehovah LORD, in Exodus 3 and John 8. While He came in the appearance of man in Phillippeans 2, He was fully God and fully man at once.

Being fully man, He felt pain and refused even the sop that was intended to ease the pain. He felt physical pain and suffered on our behalf. God did not spare His Son.. That demonstrates how much the Father loves you, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ suffered and died for you. It cost Him so much.