Is church attendance required or even essential?

[Guest shiloh357]

Butero,

 

I don't think it is necessarily the case that preachers not preaching what their denominations believe.  I think denoms are changing what they believe.  Churches are starting to preach what sells, what generates $$$, not preaching the truth.   Fewer and fewer Chrisitans read their Bibles with any regularity, fewer and fewer believe the Bible is relevant to their lives...

 

Few people join a church based on doctrine.  More often than not, Christians have a consumer mentality when it comes to church.  Churches are put in the awful position of having to compete with other churches when new members move into the area.   It's based on who has the most fun and who has the most activities and the best worship band and all of that.

 

I mean, if  people joined churches based on doctrine, Joel Osteen would be selling shoes right now.  Pastors have to preach pop psychology and how to get rich and stuff like that, to attract members.  The Gospel is not a draw for many people.  In fact, if you are a simple preacher who just preaches expositorily from the Scriptures, you are pretty much guaranteed a small church unless God works a miracle.

[Qnts2]

Butero,

 

I don't think it is necessarily the case that preachers not preaching what their denominations believe.  I think denoms are changing what they believe.  Churches are starting to preach what sells, what generates $$$, not preaching the truth.   Fewer and fewer Chrisitans read their Bibles with any regularity, fewer and fewer believe the Bible is relevant to their lives...

 

Few people join a church based on doctrine.  More often than not, Christians have a consumer mentality when it comes to church.  Churches are put in the awful position of having to compete with other churches when new members move into the area.   It's based on who has the most fun and who has the most activities and the best worship band and all of that.

 

I mean, if  people joined churches based on doctrine, Joel Osteen would be selling shoes right now.  Pastors have to preach pop psychology and how to get rich and stuff like that, to attract members.  The Gospel is not a draw for many people.  In fact, if you are a simple preacher who just preaches expositorily from the Scriptures, you are pretty much guaranteed a small church unless God works a miracle.

 

One of the issues I believe causes issues is that many times pastors are taught to measure their success by the size of their church, and not on the gaining of maturity of the congregation. I have heard from several pastors that at pastor meetings, one of the first questions they ask each other is 'how big is your church'. Also those  pastors who have large congregations gain notoriety and recognition for their accomplishments. So, some or many pastors think of success or failure based on church size, and not based on a scriptural definition.

 

In my area, there is one megachurch which follows the Willow Brook model. They are well disliked by the pastors who feel like they are in competition for size.  The pastor of that megachurch is one of the few pastors who does not attend the pastors meeting, and therefore does not reject possible attendees who have left other churches (as the 'unity' pastors meeting encourages). The pastors of the other churches feel as if the megachurch is sheep stealing, and are jealous of the size and perceived success.    

[Guest Butero]

Shiloh, what you are saying is pretty much what I have observed taking place.  It is about "who has the most fun and who has the most activities and the best worship band," exactly as you said.  It is not about seeking the truth.  It is not about doctrine.  It is about finding ways to draw a crowd and keep them.  It is about doing whatever it takes to achieve that, even if what you are doing is compromising on doctrine, and violating your own conscience.  That has been my problem with the church today, but you do have a good point.  If there is a church that does put the emphasis on doctrine, and it is not about ways to live the abundant life, get rich or something along those lines, they do tend to stay small, and usually close down.  I don't know what the answer is Shiloh.  It seems to be a heart issue among perspective members.  If all they want is fun and fellowship, and truth isn't important, the people are being given what they are asking for, like the children of Israel demanded a golden calf to worship when they got tired of waiting for Moses.  Aaron was just giving them what they demanded.  I guess the churches today are doing the same thing, but for those who care about the truth, and it is not about fun and games, it is driving them away. 

[Guest shiloh357]

I am really not sure that mega churches are scriptural.   The pastor isn't really a pastor.  He is not really accessible or touchable.   The church gets so huge that he can't really develop relationships with the people he shepherds.

 

It's sad that churches are forced to feel like they are in competition, but that is the result of appealing to people's flesh.  If Churches spent more time emphasizing the primacy of Scripture and spent less time trying to entertain people would come to church for the right reasons. 

 

We need Scripture driven churches. 

[Guest shiloh357]

If you gain members  based on activities and entertainment and stuff like that, you will also lose members on  that basis, as well.  The next church that has a better, more fun idea will begin getting all of the members.

[1to3]

I actually became closer to God, by reading the bible for myself and developing a daily relationship with God.

God is my life, it is not a question of me loosing my faith or backsliding if I do not go to church.

 

In fact.God has done so much in my life, that I would be completely lost, without a daily relationship with Him.

Because I have read the Holy bible for myself, I can better see when a pastor or a christian is going off course from holy scripture.

 

Because I live kind of isolated in the country, the nearest options for me would be to drive an 1 hour 1/2 to the city.

I live on a limited budget and have to calculate according to my budget. Also i am more careful to go out in when the weather is bad.

 

I did try some local church and it was very much like some of the people mentioned here as to why they do not go to church.

I can't express myself so well as they did, but what they say, I have experienced also.

 

I live everyday with a daily relationship with God, being alone, having to make decisions, trouble shooting when something goes wrong, I go to God first to seek guidance in what I should do next. God always guides me. God understands me more than people, and he has shown me How and where to go and also when to leave.

In Him do i place my trust.

 

About churches, I am truly sad, because there are a lot more than 1% of churches today that are messed up in their teachings.

 Thank God, that today we all have the opportunity to own a bible.

My bible is my guide and my relationship with God is my guide, hope and faith.

 

Being a christian is how you are with everybody in all walks of life.

It is just as hard to get along with people in everyday life as it is to get along with people from a church.

Just in church one would expect better behavior than in everyday life.

 

But what is sad in some churches is that you would think there would be more people shining their light of God living in them, the light of Christ shining through their interactions

with others.

Of course everyone is at a different learning curve, but I would have hoped to see more Christ like behavior in the 'so called' bible believing churches that I have attended.

 

Some people look to take away your peace.

I prefer today for my own mental health and physical health to stay away from mean spirited people. And if a church is filled with more mean spirited people,

than that tells me that there is something very wrong.

 

When I am at peace with myself and God. I am better able to be of help to myself AND my fellowman,

If my peace is being robbed from going to a church, than I will not put myself in that  position.

 

I think that those who wrote their reasons as to why they do not go to church anymore, have stated true and valid reasons.

 

Perhaps if more Christians took account of these truths more than to just justify them away, we could find more Christ like behavior of His light shinning in the hearts of those who profess to be chrisitrans,then we presently find.

[Guest LadyC]

Amen, Rusty and LadyC. My experience was that when I was not allowed to go to church, I backslid. After a while, slowly, I prayed less and read my Bible less. After a few years I thought, talked and lived like a heathen, and I never thought it was possible. I needed the encouragement of the weekly sermon and corporate worship.

Moreover, God was trying to teach me to rely on His love, Christ in me, to love the unlovable, the hipocrits, the hateful, the worldly. As was said, Jesus died for them, too.. A critical spirit is not of God. He is full of grace. That means undeserved mercy. As I stated in another post, the measure of our maturity is our love for one another. That means my love for all of you.

Col. 3:12-14 NKJV Therefore, as the elect of God,, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another. If anyone has a complaint against another,; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. But above all these things, put on love, which is the bond of perection.

Together we are the body of Christ. We cannot say we have no need of each other, as the ear can't say he has no need of the eye or the finger. None is a body unto himself. It is easy to be a christian by ourselves. It is not so easy to be a functioning Christian within a group of other Christians.. All we can do is listen to Christ ourselves and walk the walk among them. That means loving them just as they are, the way Christ loves us, and trust that He is changing them into His likeness according to His priorities, not ours. They all are people in need of God's love, and we must demonstrate that love to them.

 

AMEN! (to all of it, not just the part i bolded)

[Guest LadyC]

 

Just to give you a better understanding of what I am saying is taking place, lets use the KJV only position as an example.  Lets suppose that you have a minister who sees there is a target group of KJV only people in the area.  Lets further suppose he has no conviction about Bible translations, but he wants to build a church, so what does he do?   He starts a KJV only church, and starts preaching that all other translations are of the devil.  That is how this works.  It is not the fact a minister preaches something controversial that is the issue, but why is he preaching it?  Look at all the "come as you are churches."  Many of them used to promote wearing your "Sunday best."  What happened?  Did they simply have a change of heart?  No.  They thought this change would increase membership, which would increase tithes and offerings.  On the other side, I have seen strict ministers who preach things they have to know are not required, because they had to in order to keep a very strict crowd.  You could go to churches and not even be aware this stuff is going on, because it is about motives.  You think the minister is preaching what he is out of convictions, when he may not be. 

 

Lets take myself for instance.  Lets say that with my sincere KJV only belief and my clothes line positions, I wanted to start a church.  What would I have to do to maximize the audience?  I would have to become strict across the board, and preach against things I don't see as sin.  I would have to preach that one sip of alcohol is wrong, when I really believe that being drunk is sinful.  I would have to preach that women can never cut their hair, period, when I really only believe they need to keep their hair long.  I would have to be opposed to anyone being a member who has been divorced and re-married, even if I believe they had Biblical grounds or had repented.  What I am doing is trying to get that particular group that is hard nosed everywhere, and selling out what I really believe.  I could do that, or just the opposite.  I could drop my convictions, and create an everything goes church and hope to increase attendance that way.  That would mean that we are free to do anything we want.  Whatever way I go, I claim God has sent me to that area, and if you showed up, it is because God sent you to that church.  To leave would make you out of the will of God.  I quickly get you involved in the church.  I give you a job to do so you will feel important, and you have to show up.  If you aren't there every time the church is open, I say you are putting work or other things ahead of God.  If you don't pay all your tithes to the church, I say you are robbing God.  One minister I know once said that people that don't pay their tithes are thieves, and if they will rob God, they will steal from anyone.  It is not sincere men and women preaching what they believe that bothers me, but people who preach things they think will build a church that bothers me, when they preach things they don't really believe.  I have seen this go both ways.  I have known men who believe like I do on clothes line issues who wouldn't preach it because they didn't want to run people off.  On the other hand, some will preach everything is a sin to keep another group happy. 

 

Butero, your whole premise sounds more like marketing, rather than following God's leading to start a new work of God in a community. It really doesn't matter what people "want" to hear. A good pastor realizes that he cannot grow a church. The pastor is responsible to preach the Word of God, and it is God that grows the church. 1 Corinthians 3:7(ESV) So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth.

I know there are some like this out there, but the churches that you are talking about are so foreign to me, I can't believe there are as many as you say. I think that because of your negative experiences, your perspective seems to be that most are that way. I am a member of a Southern Baptist church and I'm familiar with several churches in my area, and these churches are made up of ministerial staff and congregations that are seeking God's heart. Their concerns are with evangelism and missions - bringing the lost to Jesus, along with looking after the needs in the community.

 

No offense, but you sound very jaded. Obviously, you have had some bad experiences. I pray that God will lead you to the church where He wants you to be.

 

 

ditto what she said... with a repeat of this part: The pastor is responsible to preach the Word of God, and it is God that grows the church. 

[MorningGlory]

Hey Firestorm, I would never attend any Rod Parsley affiliated church.  Any church that requires you to submit to a credit check and tax returns is not a true church.  That is a cult.  Rod Parsley is a false teacher if ever there was one.   I would run as far away from any organization like that.

 

I have to agree; Parsley preaches nothing but 'money, money, money' 24/7.  He and his 'apostle' co-conspirators are going to rue the day they started using God as a way to become wealthy.  And if you check the lifestyles of pretty much all of the televangelists, you'll see that they ALL become rich. 

[Fez]

So the American church is dead then?