Rev. 7's great multitude before the throne

[WilliamL]

17 hours ago, Spock said:

...It is all coming together for me. For example:

a. Rev 13:7 says "it was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them." 

Spock: the beast has this power to prevail even against us, like he has done for 2000 years may I add. But God tells us later in Rev 13 to persevere.....

this goes along with Matt 24:9 which says....

"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

spock: again it says believers will be persecuted and even put to death and hated by all nations. So put these two passages together and each say the same thing- the AC beast will mess with and prevail over some believers during his time to shine.

so when is his time to shine? This is where William REALLY opened my eyes to see the answer. His time to shine is In my opinion the first 3.5 years of Daniels last week. And guess what this time period is called?

THE GREAT TRIBULATION!! Yes, the GT is before the abomination of desolation, not after it. And guess what?  The church WILL see the abomination. In fact, Jesus himself said we would in Matthew 24:15. When you see the AoD....."

i know some want to believe Jesus is only talking about Jews. Don't believe it friends. 

To recap: God has not promised us deliverance from tribulation, only wrath. The GT is not wrath. The rapture occurs after the 6th seal and you can see it clearly in Rev 7:9-17- these are the people who come out of where ? The GREAT TRIBULATION!  Bingo!

You have part of it; but, IMHO, are still confused and mislead by that old red herring of Daniel's 70th week. As long as you continue to try to fit this already-fulfilled prophecy into the Last Days, you will remain confused. As I have said so many times, there is no 2nd witness for a 7-year End Time period, because there is no such period.

As far as persecution of believers goes, they will be persecuted BOTH during the Great Tribulation AND during the Wrath. But those persecuted during  the Trib will include the elect of the Church-soon-to-be-raptured, whereas those persecuted during the Wrath will only be the remnant of believers on earth, which will be primarily Israel, but also believers among the nations.

8 hours ago, rollinTHUNDER said:

The GT is after the AoD.  Read Matt. 24:15, then 24:21-22.

rollinTHUNDER has it correctly.

[ezekiel]

They are 3 types  in Revelation 7 the 144000 which can be numbered, the ones in heaven unable to number with robes and the ones on earth that have night and day with robes.

[ezekiel]

The first group. 144000.

The things they say are not a new thing but the word are of things long ago. Not a new song but a old one. They say fear God the end is near and great destruction are coming and to prepare for what is left on earth will be called Holy. In this they hear Christ and are not defiled by the things of this other type of system they are virgins.

Revelation 14

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

² And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

³ And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

⁴ These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

⁵ And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

The last group.

Isaiah 4:3

And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:

They are what will be left on earth. So do you make fun of the preppers. Be careful you may be that virgin with no oil in you lamp. And what might they say when you ask for it.