The Heavenly Places

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Marilyn.....

   I have nothing to add to the pages & pages & pages of interpretations & (somewhat) translations ,,,,,,,I only want to say"I think your rose is beautiful",,,,,,,only God could make something so lovely,,,,God Bless you,Bless us all & to Him be the Glory!!!           With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Marilyn C]

Blessings Marilyn.....

   I have nothing to add to the pages & pages & pages of interpretations & (somewhat) translations ,,,,,,,I only want to say"I think your rose is beautiful",,,,,,,only God could make something so lovely,,,,God Bless you,Bless us all & to Him be the Glory!!!           With love-in Christ,Kwik

Hi kwikphilly,

 

So nice of you to drop in & spread cheer. Yes it is a lovely rose & that is my second (middle) name. Now people may wonder why I would like to look into this topic, however to me there is a big push to get `Jesus earthbound.` And I believe God`s word tells us of Christ`s victory in every realm & over every authority. Thus to me as I bring a focus on this I desire to lift up the name (authority) of our precious Lord & declare His awesome victory over all.

 

And I know that is also your heart`s desire, sis. God bless, Marilyn.

[kwikphilly]

Absolutely Sis,,,

     And I will certainly Praise His Wonderful Name with you,,,,,,,Halleluyah!!!!!! Our Redeemer Lives,,,,,,Ahh,the Name above every name.....yes,yes indeed,,,,,He is the Victor,in Him we are Victorious!!!!!!!Fantastic Sister,you go girl!!!!!lol      Love you Marilyn,Kwik

 

What a lovely name,,,,Marilyn Rose,,,,so pretty!!!!

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,

Thank you for your thoughts & scriptures.

CHRIST`S ENEMIES –

People against Israel - I agree with you, as you said `anyone who touches `the apple (pupil) of God`s eye,..`And we know from the prophet Joel,

`I will also gather all nations, & bring them into the valley of Jehoshaphat; & I will enter into judgment with them there on account of my people. My heritage Israel…` (Joel 3: 2)

People against Christ – Again I agree with you here. Good scriptures there, bro. (1 John 2: 18 – 25,   4: 2 - 3,    5: 1 - 5)
I would also add that rulers & the powerful, are specifically mentioned by God as under His judgment as His enemies.

`And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men,…hide us from the wrath of the Lamb!` (Rev. 6: 15 – 17) &
`…the beast, the kings of the earth & their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse & against His army.` (Rev. 19: 19 & 20)

Satan & his demonic angels – These are in the position of principalities & powers.

`For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, neither height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.` (Rom. 9: 38 & 39)

`For we wrestle not against flesh & blood, but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.` (Eph. 6: 12)

There is quite a list there of specific positions & activity of these demonic angels. Satan himself is called the `Prince of the power of the air,` (Eph. 2: 2) The word `Prince,` is a title, (first in rank) while `power of the air,` is an authoritative position. Then there are the demons who `rule this darkness` & below them in rank are the `spiritual hosts of wickedness.`

These are all `in heavenly places,` but in the area they were cast to, from near God`s eternal throne, to near the earth and `invisible` to us. God created these areas & He will yet cast Satan & his demons from that area of principalities & powers.

`He (Christ) is the image of the invisible God, the first-born over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven, & that are on earth, visible & invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him & for Him.` (Col. 1: 15 & 16)

So these are all made by Christ, through & for Him.

- Things in heaven,
- On earth,
- Visible,
- Invisible,
- Thrones, dominions,
- Principalities, powers.

God the Father through Christ has purposes for these areas. I would like to open this up some more in my next post. You may wish to reply to my notes.

Marilyn.



 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn C.

 

Hi Retrobyter,

Thank you for your thoughts & scriptures.

CHRIST`S ENEMIES –

People against Israel - I agree with you, as you said `anyone who touches `the apple (pupil) of God`s eye,..`And we know from the prophet Joel,

`I will also gather all nations, & bring them into the valley of Jehoshaphat; & I will enter into judgment with them there on account of my people. My heritage Israel…` (Joel 3: 2)

People against Christ – Again I agree with you here. Good scriptures there, bro. (1 John 2: 18 – 25,   4: 2 - 3,    5: 1 - 5)
I would also add that rulers & the powerful, are specifically mentioned by God as under His judgment as His enemies.

`And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men,…hide us from the wrath of the Lamb!` (Rev. 6: 15 – 17) &
`…the beast, the kings of the earth & their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse & against His army.` (Rev. 19: 19 & 20)

Satan & his demonic angels – These are in the position of principalities & powers.

`For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, neither height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.` (Rom. 9: 38 & 39)

`For we wrestle not against flesh & blood, but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.` (Eph. 6: 12)

There is quite a list there of specific positions & activity of these demonic angels. Satan himself is called the `Prince of the power of the air,` (Eph. 2: 2) The word `Prince,` is a title, (first in rank) while `power of the air,` is an authoritative position. Then there are the demons who `rule this darkness` & below them in rank are the `spiritual hosts of wickedness.`

These are all `in heavenly places,` but in the area they were cast to, from near God`s eternal throne, to near the earth and `invisible` to us. God created these areas & He will yet cast Satan & his demons from that area of principalities & powers.

`He (Christ) is the image of the invisible God, the first-born over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven, & that are on earth, visible & invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him & for Him.` (Col. 1: 15 & 16)

So these are all made by Christ, through & for Him.

- Things in heaven,
- On earth,
- Visible,
- Invisible,
- Thrones, dominions,
- Principalities, powers.

God the Father through Christ has purposes for these areas. I would like to open this up some more in my next post. You may wish to reply to my notes.

Marilyn.

 

... OR so we’ve been told! I commend you on learning so well the rhetoric we’ve been taught all these years. You have a good grasp on that branch of “theology” that we call “angelology” and even more specifically, “demonology.”

 

HOWEVER, what do we REALLY know from the Scriptures about such things? Why do you think it was forbidden by God to go to “spirit mediums” and “fortune tellers?” Why do you think it was such a sin for Israel (or anybody, really) to go to other gods? We can discuss "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" ad infinitum, but what do the Scriptures actually SAY?

 

To understand deeply the Scriptures, one must be able to understand the languages in which we read those Scriptures, and that means the languages in which those Scriptures were originally written as well as the languages into which those Scriptures have been translated.

 

What is an “angel?”

 

Well, first of all, the English word is a TRANSLITERATION of the Greek word “aggelos.” That is, they took the Greek alpha and changed it into an English “a,” took the “ng” sound of the Greek gamma-gamma combination and changed it into the English “ng,” took the Greek epsilon and changed it into an English “e,” took the Greek lambda and changed it into the English “l,” and dropped the Greek-specific, masculine-noun ending, not needed in English, arriving at “angel." 

 

The Greek word “aggelos” strictly means “messenger.” What KIND of a “messenger” must be discovered from its CONTEXT, not from its definition. For instance, in the verse that you quoted above, Romans 8:38-39, we simply have a list of things that cannot separate us from the love of God. Whether there is an order to this list or not cannot be determined by this list. One might assume that there is some such order based on the proximity of “death” to “life,” the proximity of “things to come” to “things present,” and the proximity of “depth” to “height,” but however valid, it is still an assumption. These “couplets” seem to suggest that the remaining words - “angels," "principalities," and "powers” - might suggest a “triplet.” However, do these three words suggest “supernatural beings?"

 

You are suggesting the following: Because this passage uses the word “angels,” and “angels” are “supernatural beings,” then “principalities” and “powers” must also represent “supernatural beings.” But, what if “angels” are NOT to be understood as “supernatural beings?” Did you know, for instance, that John the Baptist is called an “aggelos” in Matthew 11:10?

 

Matthew 11:7-11

7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger (Greek: aggelon, the accusative case of aggelos) before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

KJV

 

The word MIGHT refer to a “supernatural being,” but then again, it might NOT! How do we KNOW that the Greek word “aggeloi” (the plural of “aggelos”) in Romans 8:38-39 means “supernatural beings?” Because of its proximity and thus its assumed relation to “principalities” and “powers?” But, wouldn’t that be circular reasoning, since we are trying to show that “principalities” and “powers” are ALSO meant to be “supernatural beings” or at least “supernatural positions?” The logic you present is this:

 

“angels are supernatural” --> “principalities and powers are supernatural” --> “heavenly places are supernatural."

 

But, we have a problem with the first premise! NOT ALL "angels are supernatural!"

 

Let’s investigate “principalities” and “powers,” as well:

 

Pros Romaious 8:38-39

38 Pepeismai gar hoti oute thanatos oute zooee oute aggeloi oute archai oute enestoota oute mellonta oute dunameis

39 oute hupsooma oute bathos oute tis ktisis hetera duneesetai heemas choorisai apo tees agapees tou Theou tees en Christoo Ieesou too Kurioo heemoon.

USB Greek New Testament

 

38 Pepeismai = 38 I-am-convinced

gar = for

hoti = that

oute = neither/nor

thanatos = death

oute = neither/nor

zooee = life

oute = neither/nor

aggeloi = messengers

oute = neither/nor

archai = chiefs

oute = neither/nor

enestoota = present-things

oute = neither/nor

mellonta = future-things

oute = neither/nor

dunameis = forces/miracles

39 oute = 39 neither/nor

hupsooma = height

oute = neither/nor

bathos = depth

oute = neither/nor

tis = any

ktisis = original-formation/act/thing

hetera = different/other

duneesetai = can/shall-be-able

heemas = us

choorisai = to-separate

apo = away-from

tees = the

agapees = love

tou = of-the

Theou = God

tees = the-[one]

en = in

Christoo = Messiah/Christ

Ieesou = Yeshua`/Jesus

too = the

Kurioo = Lord

heemoon. = of-us/our.

 

(Notice the change in order!)

 

NT:746 archee (ar-khay'); from NT:756; (properly abstract) a commencement, or (concretely) chief (in various applications of order, time, place, or rank):

KJV - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.

 

NT:756 archomai (ar'-khom-ahee); middle voice of NT:757 (through the implication of precedence); to commence (in order of time):

KJV - (rehearse from the) begin (-ning).

 

NT:757 archoo (ar'-kho); a primary verb; to be first (in political rank or power):

KJV - reign (rule) over.

 

 

NT:1411 dunamis (doo'-nam-is); from NT:1410; force (literally or figuratively); specially, miraculous power (usually by implication, a miracle itself):

KJV - ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.

 

NT:1410 dunamai (doo'-nam-ahee); of uncertain affinity; to be able or possible:

KJV - be able, can (do,  -not), could, may, might, be possible, be of power.

 

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

So, MIGHT “supernatural beings" exist in this list? Sure. MUST they exist in this list? No. And, the same reasoning can be used for the other verses that you mentioned.

 

P.S. - I forgot to add a few things: examples of “archai” and “dunameis” that may not be “supernatural”:

 

Luke 12:11-12

11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates (archai), and powers (dunameis), take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

KJV

 

Titus 3:1-2

1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities (archai) and powers (dunameis), to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

KJV

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,

I am so glad you also are not into the study of demonology. That is certainly not the subject of our discussion at the moment.

`Then comes the end, when He (Christ) delivers the kingdom to God the father, when He puts an end to all rule & all authority & power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.` (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

God`s word does tell us, however, that Satan & his unholy angels (demons) are His enemy. That is why I included them in the list of Christ`s enemies.

`He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.` (1 John 3: 8)

I also agree that `aggelos` can mean angels or messenger. We know that it depends on the context & other scriptures concerned with that topic. That is why I gave other scriptures (Eph. 6: 12 & Col. 1: 15 & 16) & explained how the terms `Principalities & Powers,` was one of the positions of authority that God made for Himself.

Satan usurped that area of authority when he was cast from near God`s throne.

The Lord said - `You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back & forth in the midst of fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.

By the abundance of your trading you became filled with violence within, & you sinned; therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God;…` (Ez. 28: 14 – 16)

Principalities & Powers are not of `flesh & blood.` They are positions of authority that have been taken over by Satan & his unholy angels.

`For we wrestle not against flesh & blood, but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.` (Eph. 6: 12)

The Lord made these positions of authority, for His own purpose & when He has finally dealt with Satan & the unholy angels, cleansed that area, then He will set up His own authority there. Now have we been told of God`s righteous authority in that realm? Is there written in God`s word concerning His government that rules over the earth?

We know there will be positions of authority on the earth - `…& the kings of the earth bring their glory & honour into it.` (Rev. 21: 24) And then are we told of those who will rule over them?

I think so. Marilyn.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn C.

 

Hi Retrobyter,

I am so glad you also are not into the study of demonology. That is certainly not the subject of our discussion at the moment.

`Then comes the end, when He (Christ) delivers the kingdom to God the father, when He puts an end to all rule & all authority & power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.` (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

God`s word does tell us, however, that Satan & his unholy angels (demons) are His enemy. That is why I included them in the list of Christ`s enemies.

`He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.` (1 John 3: 8)

I also agree that `aggelos` can mean angels or messenger. We know that it depends on the context & other scriptures concerned with that topic. That is why I gave other scriptures (Eph. 6: 12 & Col. 1: 15 & 16) & explained how the terms `Principalities & Powers,` was one of the positions of authority that God made for Himself.

Satan usurped that area of authority when he was cast from near God`s throne.

The Lord said - `You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back & forth in the midst of fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.

By the abundance of your trading you became filled with violence within, & you sinned; therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God;…` (Ez. 28: 14 – 16)

Principalities & Powers are not of `flesh & blood.` They are positions of authority that have been taken over by Satan & his unholy angels.

`For we wrestle not against flesh & blood, but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.` (Eph. 6: 12)

The Lord made these positions of authority, for His own purpose & when He has finally dealt with Satan & the unholy angels, cleansed that area, then He will set up His own authority there. Now have we been told of God`s righteous authority in that realm? Is there written in God`s word concerning His government that rules over the earth?

We know there will be positions of authority on the earth - `…& the kings of the earth bring their glory & honour into it.` (Rev. 21: 24) And then are we told of those who will rule over them?

I think so. Marilyn.

 

There is no doubt that haSatan (Hebrew for “the Enemy”) is indeed one of our enemies; however, he is a “toothless lion” today. His largest weapon today is deception. He has no real power but what we give him. HaSatan would LIKE you and others to think he has some power. He would LIKE for people to recognize that 'he is the “yin” to God’s “yang,”’ but this is a FALSE concept according to the Scriptures!

 

When we are talking about Yeshua`s Kingdom, the FIRST enemy that He will remove is haSatan! (Revelation 20:1-3.)

 

He won’t be loosed until AFTER the first 1000 years of His reign.

 

Now, let’s look at Yechezk’el’s prophecy:

 

Ezek 28:1-19

28:1 The word of Adonai came to me: 2 “Human being, tell the prince of Tzor that Adonai Elohim says:

 

‘Because you are so proud

and have said, “I am a god;

I sit on the throne of God,

surrounded by the sea”;

yet you are a man, not God,

even though you think that you think like God.

3 Sure, you are wiser than Dani’el!

No secret can be hidden from you!

4 By your wisdom and discernment

you have acquired wealth,

you have gathered gold and silver

into your treasuries.

5 By your great skill in trading

you have increased your wealth,

and it is because of your wealth

that you have become so proud. 

6 “Therefore Adonai Elohim says,

‘Because you think that you think like God,

7 I will bring foreigners against you,

the most barbarous of the nations,

to draw their swords against your fine wisdom

and defile your splendor.

8 They will lower you into the pit to die

a violent death surrounded by the sea.

9 Will you still say, “I am God,”

to them who are about to kill you?

You are a man, you are not God,

in the hands of those who defile you.

10 You will die the deaths of the uncircumcised

at the hands of foreigners.

For I have spoken,’

says Adonai Elohim.” 

 

11 The word of Adonai came to me: 12 “Human being, raise a lament for the king of Tzor, and tell him that Adonai Elohim says:

 

‘You put the seal on perfection;

you were full of wisdom and perfect in beauty;

13 you were in ‘Eden, the garden of God;

covered with all kinds of precious stones —

carnelians, topaz, diamonds,

beryl, onyx, jasper,

sapphires, green feldspar, emeralds;

your pendants and jewels were made of gold,

prepared the day you were created.

14 You were a keruv, protecting a large region;

I placed you on God’s holy mountain.

You walked back and forth

among stones of fire.

15 You were perfect in your ways

from the day you were created,

until unrighteousness

was found in you. 

16 “‘When your commerce grew,

you became filled with violence;

and in this way you sinned.

Therefore I have thrown you out, defiled,

from the mountain of God;

I have destroyed you, protecting keruv,

from among the stones of fire.

17 Your heart grew proud because of your beauty,

you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor.

But I have thrown you on the ground;

before kings I have made you a spectacle.

18 By your many crimes in dishonest trading,

you have profaned your sanctuaries;

therefore I brought forth fire from within you,

and it has devoured you;

I reduced you into ashes on the ground

in the sight of all who can see you.

19 All who know you among the peoples

will be aghast at you.

You are an object of terror,

and you will cease to exist.’” 

CJB

 

These are two MEN who were important men of Tsor (Tyre). The king of Tsor, being a friend and colleague of the king of Y’hudah (Judah), had free access to the mountain of God, Mount Tsiyown (Zion). He was a wealthy contributor and protector of Y'hudah, but he was just another man, just as was the prince against whom Yechezk’el prophesied previously. This prophecy is often said to be about haSatan, but there’s not an ounce of evidence to that theory!

 

I must stop for now because I have to work in the morning, but I will touch on Ephesians 6:12 & Colossians 1:15 & 16 soon.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,

I have a few comments on your post.
 

There is no doubt that haSatan (Hebrew for “the Enemy”) is indeed one of our enemies; however, he is a “toothless lion” today. His largest weapon today is deception. He has no real power but what we give him. HaSatan would LIKE you and others to think he has some power. He would LIKE for people to recognize that 'he is the “yin” to God’s “yang,”’ but this is a FALSE concept according to the Scriptures!

Let`s look at the `power` Satan, (esp. for unbelievers).

1. The Power over death.
`…He Christ) might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.` (Heb. 2: 14)
`..the last enemy that will be destroyed is death.` (1 Cor. 15: 26)

2. Power over the whole world system.
`..the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.` (1 John 5: 19)
`…the devil ….showed Him(Christ) all the kingdoms of the world….”All these I will give you…` (Matt. 4” 8 & 9)

3. Power over Job & his family, (as God allowed)
`So the Lord said to Satan, “behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.” (Job. 1: 12)

4. Power to test believers.
`For we do not wrestle against flesh & blood, but against principalities & powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.` (Eph. 6: 12)

I would call that quite a lot of power, Retro. And `never under estimate the enemy.`

 

When we are talking about Yeshua`s Kingdom, the FIRST enemy that He will remove is haSatan! (Revelation 20:1-3.)

I also agree that Satan is the first enemy to be removed from the Lord`s kingdom, however that event happened way back in time. The Lord`s kingdom & seat of power is the throne of God & it was from there that Lucifer was cast down. Jesus told Pilate that His kingdom was not of (from) this world.

 

`Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight, …..` (John. 18: 36)

`How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! …..` (Isa. 14: 12)

The prophet Ezekiel also describes this. You said it was just about `a man,` & `not an ounce of evidence to that theory` that it is Satan. But Retro, if you read the scriptures carefully you will see it is about Lucifer & his fall from the Lord`s kingdom, around the throne of God.

1. He was created perfect. `You were the seal of perfection…You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created..` (Ez. 28: 12 & 15) (`For all have sinned…` Rom. 3: 23)
2. He was placed on God`s Holy mountain. `You were on the holy mountain of God.` (v. 14)
3. He was in Eden. `You were in Eden, the garden of God;…` (v. 13)

When Lucifer was cast out of the kingdom of God around His throne, he usurped the principalities & powers region near the earth, & took control eventually of the kingdoms of the world. Thus in Rev. 20: 1 – 3 as you noted, Satan is cast out of the earth & the Lord sets up His kingdom rule on the earth as promised. Note however that God`s great kingdom is in all realms & not just on earth.

Lucifer, is now called Satan, the devil, the serpent, the dragon, in relation to his activities.

`So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil & Satan, who deceives, the whole world;….` (Rev. 12: 9)

Interesting information you gave Retro, that Satan is haSatan, which is Hebrew for enemy. Thanks for that. Now he has been given other names also & maybe you would have relevant info on that too. I`ll give what I know as well.

Satan – the Deluder, (`I will ascend,…` x5. Isa. 14: 13 & 14) Pride.
Serpent – the Deceiver, (lies to Eve. Gen. 3: 4 & 5)
Devil – the Destroyer, ( `rob, kill, destroy` John 10: 10)
Dragon – the Devourer, (`..to devour her child..` Rev. 12: 4)

 

 

The Lord Jesus Christ overcame Satan, the serpent, the devil, the dragon in all his wickedness.

Jesus did the Father`s will – humility.
Jesus obeyed the Father, speaking truth.
Jesus destroyed the works of the devil.
Jesus overcame by His blood sacrifice.

Thanks be to the Lord for His wonderful victory over the enemy.

Take your time Retro, & don`t think you have to answer quickly. I am patient. Marilyn.



 

Edited April 20, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn C.

 

Hi Retrobyter,

I have a few comments on your post.
 

There is no doubt that haSatan (Hebrew for “the Enemy”) is indeed one of our enemies; however, he is a “toothless lion” today. His largest weapon today is deception. He has no real power but what we give him. HaSatan would LIKE you and others to think he has some power. He would LIKE for people to recognize that 'he is the “yin” to God’s “yang,”’ but this is a FALSE concept according to the Scriptures!

Let`s look at the `power` Satan, (esp. for unbelievers).

1. The Power over death.
`…He Christ) might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.` (Heb. 2: 14)
`..the last enemy that will be destroyed is death.` (1 Cor. 15: 26)

2. Power over the whole world system.
`..the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.` (1 John 5: 19)
`…the devil ….showed Him(Christ) all the kingdoms of the world….”All these I will give you…` (Matt. 4” 8 & 9)

3. Power over Job & his family, (as God allowed)
`So the Lord said to Satan, “behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.” (Job. 1: 12)

4. Power to test believers.
`For we do not wrestle against flesh & blood, but against principalities & powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.` (Eph. 6: 12)

I would call that quite a lot of power, Retro. And `never under estimate the enemy.`

 

When we are talking about Yeshua`s Kingdom, the FIRST enemy that He will remove is haSatan! (Revelation 20:1-3.)

I also agree that Satan is the first enemy to be removed from the Lord`s kingdom, however that event happened way back in time. The Lord`s kingdom & seat of power is the throne of God & it was from there that Lucifer was cast down. Jesus told Pilate that His kingdom was not of (from) this world.

 

`Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight, …..` (John. 18: 36)

`How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! …..` (Isa. 14: 12)

The prophet Ezekiel also describes this. You said it was just about `a man,` & `not an ounce of evidence to that theory` that it is Satan. But Retro, if you read the scriptures carefully you will see it is about Lucifer & his fall from the Lord`s kingdom, around the throne of God.

1. He was created perfect. `You were the seal of perfection…You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created..` (Ez. 28: 12 & 15) (`For all have sinned…` Rom. 3: 23)
2. He was placed on God`s Holy mountain. `You were on the holy mountain of God.` (v. 14)
3. He was in Eden. `You were in Eden, the garden of God;…` (v. 13)

When Lucifer was cast out of the kingdom of God around His throne, he usurped the principalities & powers region near the earth, & took control eventually of the kingdoms of the world. Thus in Rev. 20: 1 – 3 as you noted, Satan is cast out of the earth & the Lord sets up His kingdom rule on the earth as promised. Note however that God`s great kingdom is in all realms & not just on earth.

Lucifer, is now called Satan, the devil, the serpent, the dragon, in relation to his activities.

`So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil & Satan, who deceives, the whole world;….` (Rev. 12: 9)

Interesting information you gave Retro, that Satan is haSatan, which is Hebrew for enemy. Thanks for that. Now he has been given other names also & maybe you would have relevant info on that too. I`ll give what I know as well.

Satan – the Deluder, (`I will ascend,…` x5. Isa. 14: 13 & 14) Pride.
Serpent – the Deceiver, (lies to Eve. Gen. 3: 4 & 5)
Devil – the Destroyer, ( `rob, kill, destroy` John 10: 10)
Dragon – the Devourer, (`..to devour her child..` Rev. 12: 4)

 

 

The Lord Jesus Christ overcame Satan, the serpent, the devil, the dragon in all his wickedness.

Jesus did the Father`s will – humility.
Jesus obeyed the Father, speaking truth.
Jesus destroyed the works of the devil.
Jesus overcame by His blood sacrifice.

Thanks be to the Lord for His wonderful victory over the enemy.

Take your time Retro, & don`t think you have to answer quickly. I am patient. Marilyn.



 

 

I am EXTREMELY HAPPY that I get to be the one to inform you of these matters! Please don’t feel bad to all the “no’s” I’m about to lay on you. Please, take each one as a celebration of victory! (Because, they ARE glorious victories in our Lord Yeshua`!)

 

First, you said that haSatan had...

 

1. The Power over death.
`…He Christ) might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.` (Heb. 2: 14)
`..the last enemy that will be destroyed is death.` (1 Cor. 15: 26)

 

Understand, however, that even in English there is a GREAT difference between the “power OVER death” and the “power OF death.” However, let’s go to the Greek again of Hebrews 2:14 for clarity:

 

Pros Hebraious 2:14-15

14 Epei oun ta paidia kekoinooneeken haimatos kai sarkos, kai autos parapleesioos meteschen toon autoon, hina dia tou thanatou katargeesee ton to kratos echonta tou thanatou tout’ estin ton diabolon,

15 kai apallaxee toutous hosoi foboo thanatou dia pantos tou zeen enochoi eesan douleias.

UBS Greek New Testament

 

14 Epei = 14 Since

oun = then

ta = the

paidia = children 

kekoinooneeken = share-with-others

haimatos = blood

kai = and/also

sarkos, = flesh/meat,

kai = and/also

autos = He

parapleesioos = in-a-nearly-same-manner

meteschen = shared/participated

toon = of-the

autoon, = same-thing,

hina = so-that

dia = through

tou = of-the

thanatou = death

katargeesee = he-might-destroy

ton = him-who

to = the

kratos = vigor/dominion/strength

echonta = had/held

tou = of-the

thanatou = death

tout’ (touto) = that-thing

estin = is

ton = the

diabolon, = “devil”/traducer/slanderer,

15 kai = 15 and/also

apallaxee = deliver

toutous = them

hosoi = who

foboo = through-fear

thanatou = of-death

dia = through

pantos = all

tou = of-the

zeen = lifetime

enochoi = subject-to

eesan = were

douleias.= bondage.

 

14 Since then the children share-with-others blood and/also flesh/meat, and/also He in-a-nearly-same-manner shared/participated of-the same-thing, so-that through of-the death he-might-destroy him-who the vigor/dominion/strength had/held of-the death that-thing is the “devil”/traducer/slanderer,

15 and/also deliver them who through-fear of-death through all of-the lifetime subject-to were bondage.

 

First of all, the “power” is NOT the word “dunamis!” It’s the word “kratos.” The text is saying that the Slanderer had the power to KILL the Messiah and has the power to SCARE people of death! It’s through the FEAR of death that he controls who he may!

 

HOWEVER, he CERTAINLY does not have the “power OVER death!” That power is ONLY in God’s hands! He would LIKE for people to believe that he has such power, but he will suffer death - the second death - as much as anyone will! In fact, the Lake of Burning Sulfur was created FOR haSatan and his messengers, and he knows his fate and fears it more than people do!

 

(More to come....)

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,

You said,
 

I am EXTREMELY HAPPY that I get to be the one to inform you of these matters! Please don’t feel bad to all the “no’s” I’m about to lay on you. Please, take each one as a celebration of victory! (Because, they ARE glorious victories in our Lord Yeshua`!)

That`s what we are here for, to lift up the name of Jesus, so go for it brother.

Marilyn.