Tithing & giving: The letter and the Spirit of the law? Thoughts?

[Guest Fish Catcher Jim]

*if you don't pay tithes you will go to hell*

This sounds like a bit of an exaggeration.

 

I've visited several churches in my travels where this or something close to it was taught, and its wrong.

I agree because from what I have come to understand the only thing that sends a person to hell is that person not making Jesus Lord and savior of their life or another words getting born again.

[GoldenEagle]

I started a thread about tithes and whether we are required to give or not very recently. Part of the position I was coming from in starting it was that all I've heard my entire life is that you must give 10% tithes and it is sin not to. Since no sin will enter heaven, if you don't pay tithes you will go to hell. I have heard that taught more times than I can count. I think it should be a given that we are to help our local church and our brothers and sisters in Christ. I am sorry you received such a backlash. We have had enough private conversations that I know in my heart your love for God is real. I will keep you in my prayers and post the link to my tithes thread below. If you have any thoughts or questions for me once you read it, then feel free to ask here.

 

 

 

 

 

God Bless you

Firestormx

Joseph

I will check your thread out Joseph.

For clarification I didn't write this though. If you click the link in the OP you'll see the author is: Joe McKeever. He's a retired pastor.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

There is not only one Bible verse for Christian giving, but many passages of Scripture, the primary one being 2 Cor 8:1-9:15.  Christian giving is a *grace*.

 

Thanks I read through it today. I will go through this passage in more detail.

 

*if you don't pay tithes you will go to hell*

This sounds like a bit of an exaggeration. 

Actually, I've experienced this too. Not tithing is sin. So not tithing means you will go to hell. At least that's what some very misguided teachers, ministers, and pastors teach. It's a scare tactic and it hasn't worked in the evangelical church don't you agree?

God bless,

GE

 

[GoldenEagle]

 

Hi GoldenEagle,nice to see you posting again,missed you on WB.

 

About the tithing and this article,what is your opinion?

 

 

2 Cor.9:7

 

You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. "For God loves a person who gives cheerfully."

 

 

Hi Angels4u. Yes, I've been away for a while. Thanks for the welcome.

My opinion is as follows... I actually was thinking about this yesterday and today so it's a bit long lol.

 

1. Before even starting this post I’ll point out two passage I read recently:

The letter kills BUT the Spirit gives life.

 

”Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”- 2 Corinthians 3:5-6.

 

In case you missed it: The letter kills BUT the Spirit gives life.

Here’s the second verse that speaks for itself:

“For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, ‘Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, and do them.’” – Galatians 3:10

2. Is the tithe given as a command in the New Testament and is the tithe the standard for giving to Christians today? Nope. The tithe was the standard for Israelites and directly related to the law. There were in fact 3 tithes in the Bible: One for the Levites and Temple paid yearly, a second for the feasts Israel celebrated paid yearly, and a third for the poor, widow, orphan, and foreigner to be paid every three years. This would result on average for a 23.3% tithe of the seed and flocks from one’s annual produce from the land. Notice this would only apply to land owners.

See Deut. 14:22-27, Lev. 18:19-21, Deut. 16:16, Deut. 12:6-8, and Deut. 14:28-29

3. Are you free to disagree with me? Sure. This isn’t a salvation issue. Although for saying such as what I’ve pointed out above using Scripture I’ve been called names and even a false teacher. Lol. One lady went so far as to say that I should start my own cult… Really? What charity people have… But let’s not get into that. Please be gentle as God’s not done with me yet. Thankfully!

 

[GoldenEagle]

(cont.)

Is the new standard for Christians generous and sacrificial giving? Absolutely!

4. Is the new standard for Christians generous and sacrificial giving? Absolutely! The Bible talks about giving sacrificially on more than one occasion in both the New and Old Testament. One of the primary passages in the New Teastament is 2 Cor. 8:1-9:15. There are others listed as examples below.

See Exodus 36:5, 1 Kings 17:13-15, Luke 21:4, Acts 2:45, Acts 4:34, Hebrews 13:16, 2 Cor. 8:2-4, 1 Tim 6:18

5. Church leaders need to stop telling people to give their “tithes and offerings” and think somehow that this fulfills the duty of teaching the flock about stewardship. Stewardship is so much more than just giving 10% of our income. Our finances are just one aspect of the entire package God wants: time, energy, effort, love, and so much more. God wants 100% and He wants our very lives! Note: I think 10% or more is a good goal. Yet by itself is an incomplete teaching. Also, I think our current church does a good job of teaching about stewardship. Other churches we’ve participated in the past maybe not as much.

Let’s be real. In the West, this teaching of tithing has failed.

 

6. Let’s be real. In the West, this teaching of tithing has failed. People are more in debt than ever in the West. Giving for many if not a majority of churches is down. In the U.S.A. less than 3% of evangelical Christians tithe (or give 10% to their local church). Why? The tithe is an Old Covenant doctrine based on the law. The law just points out our need for grace, mercy, and hope that only be found in our Savior Jesus Christ. The Old Covenant is conditional on how we perform. While the New Covenant is unconditional and is all about how God has performed for us by sending Jesus to die on the cross for our sins.



 

[GoldenEagle]

(Cont.)

7. Let’s switch gears to talk about motivation for a minute. The wrong motivation for giving is pride, guilt, greed, pressure, gimmicks, and power. Right reasons for giving include wanting to glorify God, wanting our hearts to be right before God, we want for God to be my master, we want our lives to be used by God, we want our faith to grow, we want to be compassionate people, and finally I want to be a worshiper of God.

You’re probably thinking something to the effect of: “This is a bit heavy. Please can I have some good news?”

 

8. Yes! The good news is God will never love you less for how much you give. On the flip side God will never love you more for how much you give either. God’s love is NOT dependent on YOUR giving: your tithes, offerings, gifts to ministries, to evangelists, to missionaries, or anything else you can think of.

There’s nothing we can do to earn salvation.

 

9. Salvation and eternal life through Jesus Christ are both free to us without money or cost. There’s nothing we can do to earn salvation. We as Believers don’t give to be saved. Instead, we give sacrificially BECAUSE we are saved and BEACAUSE we want others to be reached for the Gospel.
 

10. Give! Whether you give to a local church, your neighbors in need, the local music radio station, your favorite charities, or something else give! Giving should be a part of our DNA!
 

What do you think about giving and tithing Angels4u or anyone else?
God bless,

GE

[gdemoss]

If a person is dead unto self and alive unto God then it will show in their giving whether it be to a local church or some other need. If not they aren't followers of Chtist anyway and it is a moot point.

[Ezra]

Actually, I've experienced this too. Not tithing is sin. So not tithing means you will go to hell. At least that's what some very misguided teachers, ministers, and pastors teach. It's a scare tactic and it hasn't worked in the evangelical church don't you agree?

I checked that link provided by firestormx, and it is rather disturbing.  Not only is this a scare tactic, but false doctrine and a perversion of the truth.  I have never encountered it before, so it must be a fringe element that preaches such nonsense.

 

Christian giving is exemplified by the poor widow who gave everything she had, as well as by the disciples in Acts 2 who shared everything they had.  It is a spiritual sacrifice from a grateful heart.

[Littlelambseativy]

God wants gifts from a " cheerful giver" if one has to tithe grudgingly or tithe and let the family go without food ...this cannot be pleasing to the Father.

[GoldenEagle]

 

Actually, I've experienced this too. Not tithing is sin. So not tithing means you will go to hell. At least that's what some very misguided teachers, ministers, and pastors teach. It's a scare tactic and it hasn't worked in the evangelical church don't you agree?

I checked that link provided by firestormx, and it is rather disturbing.  Not only is this a scare tactic, but false doctrine and a perversion of the truth.  I have never encountered it before, so it must be a fringe element that preaches such nonsense.

 

Christian giving is exemplified by the poor widow who gave everything she had, as well as by the disciples in Acts 2 who shared everything they had.  It is a spiritual sacrifice from a grateful heart.

 

 

I agree with you. Isn't the poor widow's story just as much about what the Pharisees weren't doing? If you scroll up to above of the 3 yearly tithes, the third tithe Israel paid went to the Levite, widows, orphans, and foreigners. Clearly the scribes and Pharisees as well as Israelite people in general weren't leading the way by following the law. To the point that a widow (Mark 12:41-44, Luke 21:1-4) gave away her last two coins in faith that God would provide.

Deut. 14:28-29 (ESV)

²⁸ “At the end of every three years you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in the same year and lay it up within your towns. ²⁹ And the Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance with you, and the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, who are within your towns, shall come and eat and be filled, that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands that you do.

God bless,

GE