Guest shiloh357 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Yes the disciples were to teach everyone whatever Jesus commanded them, but the problem is that we don't have any teaching on healing in the epistles. The letters to the churches have no detail treatment about healing. No commandment to go and raise the dead is contained in anything the apostles taught the church. Those signs and wonders were there to confirm that the apostles were operating in God's authority. I would also point out that the signs and wonders the apostles performed were limited three things: healing, casting out evil spirits. They were never given the power to do any of the other miracles that Jesus did. They had no power over nature: They didn't still any storms, they didn't walk on water in Acts, they didn't do anything like multiply food, or any such thing. Paul calls the signs and wonders they did, "the signs of an apostle." (I Cor. 12:12). We don't see the general church going out and healing everyone in the book of Acts. The healings were generally limited to the Apostles. I am sure you can post verse after verse in an attempt to contradict me, but that's what I expect. Anyone can pepper people with verses and make the Bible appear to say lots of things, but simply posting verses is kind of pointless unless your use of Scripture is accompanied by sound exegesis. Paul's thorn in the flesh was not a demon. And it was not persecution. It was a physical malady given by God to keep him from becoming arrogant due to the visions he had seen of heaven. Paul prayed for it to be removed and the Lord said no, but that his grace was sufficient for Paul. In other words, God's grace was sufficient for Paul in spite of the thorn. Paul was never healed of it. I am not mocking anyone. I raise a valid point. Those who claim that they have by the power of faith-filled words, power over nature to stop storms, never seem to be able to use that power to stop major disasters. Where were the Word of Faith people to stop all of the flooding in Texas? Where were they at Katrina??? How come they can't use their faith to stop the famines an droughts on the continent of Africa??? How about these claims you made about people being raised from the dead??? How come that stuff is only "claims" and is never actually documented??? Heidi Baker claims over 100 people raise from the dead in Mozambique, but not one documented case... Same goes for the food being multiplied. I am not mocking anyone. Other WoF teachers claim the same kind o stuff and yet not one case ever documented. There have been cases, though, of Benny Hinn claiming that people were healed of terminal diseases and they still die of the same terminal disease one or two years later... I have very good reasons to be skeptical of these claims, which so far, have never been truly proven or documented. Heidi Baker, by the way, is part of the heretical New Apostolic Reformation and practices the far eastern, mystical/pagan practice of contemplative prayer, so she has a lot of theological problems as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted May 29, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,147 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,842 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 29, 2015 Blessings.... Back to the OP,I don't understand why this guy would "command" the tornado to not touch only his own house,,,,,I would hope he would have wanted it to disappear & not touch down anywhere,,,,,,,I live in South Florida & we have hurricaine season every year,every prayer is that hurricaines do not come n ear any land,,,,,just stay out at sea & no harm come to anyone,, Hmmm,healings........funny how it seems to me the people that have the most to say about how to receive healing are the ones who have never personally suffered much more than a common cold,,,,,,,,,if ever they are stricken with a terminal illness & by THEIR faith they are not healed,what will become of their faith I wonder? I do pray no one has to go through it but if so I do hope they can understand that God sometimes simply says "No"......... I praise the Lord & to Him be the Glory that He delivered me of cancer(incurable,terminal) but still there remains ,"the thorn in my side",,,,,I have not yet been completely restored,I may & may never be but His Grace is sufficient........but in my weakness I am made strong & I never forget that God is Able & that He is with me.......perhaps if I had 100% restoration I would somehow forget what a Miracle I received,or to give God Glory or to be His Living Testimony?????I have no greater faith than anyone,I am no more special to God than anyone else,I did not deserve to be healed or deserve to be sick but in all of it there is Gods Purpose,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my ways are not His Ways & whatever His Will,let it be done that I do what He has for me to do,,,,,,,, People need to talk less about things they know nothing about & just let the Holy Spirit use them.........I will never know why some folks have the need to talk all the time,reply to any & all topics,just to be heard,about all things??? With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted May 30, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Yes the disciples were to teach everyone whatever Jesus commanded them, but the problem is that we don't have any teaching on healing in the epistles. The letters to the churches have no detail treatment about healing. No commandment to go and raise the dead is contained in anything the apostles taught the church. Those signs and wonders were there to confirm that the apostles were operating in God's authority. ~ Believers "I assure you: The one who believes in Me will also do the works that I do. And he will do even greater works than these, because I am going to the Father. John 14:12 (HCSB) Too Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (KJV) ~ What? Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. Zechariah 4:6 (KJV) No Power How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? Hebrews 2:3-4 (KJV) No Miracles And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people. Acts 6:8 (KJV) ~ Beloved And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. 1 Corinthians 12:28-31 (KJV) Do You See Paul, an apostle--sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead-- Galatians 1:1 (NIV) Yet.... From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. James 4:1-2 ~ Be Blessed Beloved Of Then KING And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. Matthew 10:7-8 (ESV) Love, Your Brother Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted May 31, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Yes the disciples were to teach everyone whatever Jesus commanded them, but the problem is that we don't have any teaching on healing in the epistles. The letters to the churches have no detail treatment about healing. No commandment to go and raise the dead is contained in anything the apostles taught the church. Those signs and wonders were there to confirm that the apostles were operating in God's authority. Considering that Jesus modeled our example, every time He healed the sick, we can learn something from, how the apostles healed the sick, and how the book of James gives instruction to the elders, it's clear that there is more contained in the bible about how to pray for the sick than how to plant a Church, how to conduct a Church service, and how to properly baptize. "Believers will lay hands on the sick and they will recover" The apostle Paul did clearly tell the Corinthian Church to seek after Spiritual gifts because they edify the Church at the end of 1 Cor 12 and beginning of 1 Cor 14. The gift of healing and miracles is within those gifts. The gifts also are to manifest the nature of God, the Kingdom of God, and show the world the "powers of the age to come (Hebrews 6:5)." And that authority is given to believers, not just apostles. Matthew 10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. I would also point out that the signs and wonders the apostles performed were limited three things: healing, casting out evil spirits. They were never given the power to do any of the other miracles that Jesus did. They had no power over nature: They didn't still any storms, they didn't walk on water in Acts, they didn't do anything like multiply food, or any such thing. Paul calls the signs and wonders they did, "the signs of an apostle." (I Cor. 12:12). John 14:12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, Also, on a side note, Holy Spirit demonstrated his power over time and space as Phillip teleported. We don't see the general church going out and healing everyone in the book of Acts. The healings were generally limited to the Apostles. But Jesus commanded the 70 to heal the sick, Steven healed the sick and worked miracles, Philip the Evangelist healed the sick, people were instructed to get healed through the elders of the Church in James. Paul made very clear in 1st Corinthians that those with gifts of healing are different from apostles. 1 Corinthians 12:28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. Then Paul encourages the Church 1 Corinthians 12:31 But earnestly desire the best gifts 14:1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. But not only are you ignoring Paul's instruction, you are ignoring Jesus' instruction about the great commission. Jesus said these signs would follow, not apostles, but those who believe, Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” John 14:12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. but simply posting verses is kind of pointless unless your use of Scripture is accompanied by sound exegesis. Paul's thorn in the flesh was not a demon. And it was not persecution. It was a physical malady given by God to keep him from becoming arrogant due to the visions he had seen of heaven. Paul prayed for it to be removed and the Lord said no, but that his grace was sufficient for Paul. In other words, God's grace was sufficient for Paul in spite of the thorn. Paul was never healed of it. 2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. I think Paul was continuing on his boasting in suffering from the chapter prior, which is literally the paragraph up from his thorn. Context is important. 2 Corinthians 11:22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they ministers of Christ?—I speak as a fool—I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness— 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation? 30 If I must boast, I will boast in the things which concern my infirmity. 31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. 32 In Damascus the governor, under Aretas the king, was guarding the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desiring to arrest me; 33 but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall, and escaped from his hands. I am not mocking anyone. I raise a valid point. Those who claim that they have by the power of faith-filled words, power over nature to stop storms, never seem to be able to use that power to stop major disasters. Where were the Word of Faith people to stop all of the flooding in Texas? Where were they at Katrina??? How come they can't use their faith to stop the famines an droughts on the continent of Africa??? I know there are people praying and commanding flooding to go and famines to go. May be the answer is similar to "why doesn't everyone get healed?" How about these claims you made about people being raised from the dead??? How come that stuff is only "claims" and is never actually documented??? Heidi Baker claims over 100 people raise from the dead in Mozambique, but not one documented case... Same goes for the food being multiplied. I am not mocking anyone. Actually there is great work going on to document. A team from Harvard went down to Mozambique and documented in a medical journal the effects of laying on of hands through the blind and deaf. Randy Clark has been collecting documentation of healing so that prayer can be administered in hospitals instead of Reiki and therapeutic touch. Food being multiplied is happening in area's of extreme famine and flooding. Jesus is the same Jesus today as He was then. He didn't change because He finished His book. He now shows who He is through His children. With the 100 raised from the dead, now they lost count because so many Churches are planted and little bush pastors rising the dead all over. They are well over a thousand now. It's pretty crazy how the Churches out there will fast and pray for days until they see breakthrough. Heidi Baker, by the way, is part of the heretical New Apostolic Reformation and practices the far eastern, mystical/pagan practice of contemplative prayer, so she has a lot of theological problems as well. You should really investigate the fruit before you label people a heretic. She is someone who literally risks her life to bring the Gospel to the unreached, is completely in love with Jesus and also she also has a PHD in systematic theology. The core of what she teaches is intimacy with God and loving the person in front of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted June 1, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Amen~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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