Omegaman 3.0 Posted May 30, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 Interesting responses. Did anyone read the free book I linked to by chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted May 30, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2015 No I didn't ...D.C Carson is Amillenial ,do you share his point of view? Yes, he is.I will not be reading the free book.I have nothing in common with Carson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted May 30, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2015 No I didn't ...D.C Carson is Amillenial ,do you share his point of view? Yes, he is.I will not be reading the free book.I have nothing in common with Carson. Bobeep what do you not have in common? If the person is amillennial I do not support that interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted May 30, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2015 A person who is amillennial believes there will be no literal 1000 year reign of Christ.They do not believe that there is no millennium at all they just do not believe in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth.Amillennism used inconsistent hermeneutics namely interpreting unfulfilled prophecy differently from fulfilled prophecy.I take the book of Revelation literally which would allow me to reject amillennialism.I do not Spiritualize the book of Revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By Faith Posted May 30, 2015 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 110 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2015 No I didn't ...D.C Carson is Amillenial ,do you share his point of view? Yes, he is.I will not be reading the free book.I have nothing in common with Carson. Bobeep what do you not have in common? If the person is amillennial I do not support that interpretation. I read through some of the book, and most definitely do not agree with any Amillennialism position. To think Satan is already bound is to live in a bubble and not be paying attention to what Satan is doing in this World now. However, a wrong view in my thinking is just that. I certainly don't know everything, and some points are very good. I would not want to be so closed minded and miss revelation God has to give through someone. I certainly do not eat hay, or would agree with it, yet a Donkey was used to speak to a prophet and might find my position on eating hay nonsensical. My beef with the book though is not really in Carson's belief system, but his lack of anointing and ability to reach everyone. When things get complicated, we know God is not in that, but mans own wisdom. Just a small example. (3) God’s salvific stance toward his fallen world. God so loved the world that he gave his Son (John 3:16). I know that some try to take ko´smoy (“world”) here to refer to the elect. But that really will not do. All the evidence of the usage of the word in John’s Gospel is against the suggestion. True, world in John does not so much refer to bigness as to badness. In John’s vocabulary, world is primarily the moral order in willful and culpable rebellion against God. In John 3:16 God’s love in sending the Lord Jesus is to be admired not because it is extended to so big a thing as the world, but to so bad a thing; not to so many people, as to such wicked people. Nevertheless elsewhere John can speak of “the whole world” (1 John 2:2), thus bringing bigness and badness together. More importantly, in Johannine theology the disciples themselves once belonged to the world but were drawn out of it (e.g., John 15:19). On this axis, God’s love for the world cannot be collapsed into his love for the elect. Carson just assumes that all of us understand the position of Calvinism, and just assumes we understand why that is important. Many believers don't even know what that is, or even consider or have hears about taking Ko'smoy as to referring to the elect. He goes into long thing about it instead of just Saying, some believe God picks who gets saved, and that saving faith is imparted to them only as the elect in the World. Carson would leave most trying to guess what the heck He was talking about. Then Carson refers to the Johannine Theology, Of course we all know what that is, right? First thing everyone is taught in church, common knowledge. Carson even says it's important, but what the heck is Johannine theology? Desiderius Erasmus, Issac Newton and many others thought the Johannine comma was a fake, yet Carson dismisses this and calls it important leaving the reader to have no clue what Johannine is and what importance it has in making his point against election. For me, the book was far to complex for your Average believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted May 30, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 No I didn't ...D.C Carson is Amillenial ,do you share his point of view? Not so far. So far, I would classify myself as a (or some would say "an", not "a") Historic Premillinialist. I have only been studying eschatology for just over 3 decades, so I am still learning. I think amillenialism is a respectable viewpoint though. Might be my second choice if I had to choose. As a millenialist though, I am not convinced that 1000 years means 1000 years, as opposed to 999 years or 1001 years. It is hard to be dogmatic about a specific number being taken literally, in a book (Revelation) where so much is symbolic in a collection of books (the Bible) where numbers do have meanings. Especially when the 1000 years is only referred to as such, in this one passage (Rev 20). It is, after all, a vision) I do not want to be close minded and paint myself into a corner of error. It does however, strike be as a real event that is of SOME length of time, and the choice of 1000 years, makes be suspect it is not a blink of the eye. My philosophy on that part, is that I do not see how it can affect how I conduct my life etc, so I do not worry about it too much. I figure once the Lord returns, it is out of my hand, there is nothing to do but go along for the ride, whatever that is. Most of my eschatology, comes from passages which I find easier to understand, For example, Matt 24 - it has a lot of detail, and a lot said about the sequence of events. Once getting a basis in passages like the, the Paulin epistles etc, I then use that as the lens through which I view the trickier sections like Revelation. I think it is wise to interpret the vague, in the light of the clear, instead of the other way around. Revelation might be the last place I would look, for clarity on the end times. However . . . It does have one very clear message, that it repeats over and over . . . Things will be tough, hold on, stand fast, we win in the end! Regardless of whether or not I agree with everything Dr. Carson says, he is an excellent Greek scholar with very few equals, and his writing are clear enough for us lay people to understand. I know, as is usual for me, people ask a simple question, and I answer with paragraphs - sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted May 30, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 Carson just assumes that all of us understand the position of Calvinism, and just assumes we understand why that is important. Many believers don't even know what that is, or even consider or have hears about taking Ko'smoy as to referring to the elect. He goes into long thing about it instead of just Saying, some believe God picks who gets saved, and that saving faith is imparted to them only as the elect in the World. Carson would leave most trying to guess what the heck He was talking about. Then Carson refers to the Johannine Theology, Of course we all know what that is, right? First thing everyone is taught in church, common knowledge. Carson even says it's important, but what the heck is Johannine theology? Hmm, I guess I can see that, However, each field of study, has it's own language, it's own terminology. For example, I read a cook book and I have no idea what some of those terms mean. If I read a medical book, I would really be at a loss. Some people might hear the word Lamborghini, and have no idea what that is. This is why we have dictionaries, and these days, we can open up a tab in a browser and find out all sorts of things effortlessly. As a new believer, I learned words like Johannine and Pauline probably within my first year as a Christian. After all, if I was going to commit my life to my Lord and Savior, and be of any service to Him in helping others live their lives for Him, I figured I might want to learn some things from a lot of people who have learned more than I know, from the pass 2000 years of looking into these things. Being spoon fed pablum from the pulpit, isn't always enough. The writer of Hebrews had this to say: Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil. Apparently, they had become lazy. In those days, they did not have a Bible in every home, they were a rare thing, and they did not have a New Testament. The had no commentaries on their "scroll shelf" no internet access, etc. To whom much has been given, much shall be required. Sometimes it might be worth a little extra effort in the service of others. Instead of criticizing those, like Dr. Carson, who have devoted their lives to that idea. But, I do see your point. Dr. Donald Grey Barnhouse used to say: "Get the hay down out of the loft where the cows can get at it." Thanks for commenting in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted May 30, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,658 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2015 While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. He gave His only begotton Son for us, a part of Himself. Does He love sinners more than His Son and Himself? Probably. Does that mean that He loves the lost more than He loves us, His adopted kids in whom Christ lives? Possibly. He came for the lost sheep and those who are sick rather than those who are well. So I have to ask myself, do I love the lost as much as God does? There remains somethng in me that is reluctant to go to Ninavah and preach repentance to those who are cruel and evil. Would I go and preach repentance to ISIL? Probably not. Jonah, move over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted May 30, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2015 D.C. Carson is also a Calvinist.That is two marks against Carson for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted May 31, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 31, 2015 D.C. Carson is also a Calvinist.That is two marks against Carson for me. Calvinists can be Christians too Bobeep...they are still your brother and sister Did I say they were not?I just do not support Calvinism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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