Metel disappears, aids healed, contorted legs made straight. YAY Jesus

[By Faith]

I have my sons doctors report, and the parents of the girl I laid hands on during me preaching at a church, brought me their daughters doctors report and showed me. 

 

I don't need a doctors report though to know that the Lord heals, I had to know that before the doctors report was produced. 

[Guest shiloh357]

Noone said that the Lord doesn't heal.    The problem is with the fantastic, unverifiable reports of things like resurrections that is at issue.

[By Faith]

No said that the Lord doesn't heal.    The problem is with the fantastic, unverifiable reports of things like resurrections that is at issue.

 

To judge, or at least get a more clear picture, you would have had to Pastor a church where people get healed. We are all human with the possibility of having wrong thinking. It's easy to sit back and judge things if you never been in that position. 

 

When I was asked to Pastor the Sunday morning service of a church, had full control, just teaching, some folks had faith to be healed and were healed. One guy who said he was healed after Hearing me speak claimed to have the doctors report and said the doctors were just stumped on how a whole bunch of cancer can just vanish. He still tells folks about it today and was the father of my praise and worship leader. I don't doubt what they told me. 

 

So Shiloh, it's very easy to start thinking. 

 

If I start posting these testimonies online, then that might bring more people in. More people coming in, means more people get helped. 

 

At least that is what you tell yourself. 

 

Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 

(1Ti 3:6-10)

 

I am thankful I had enough Word in me for the Lord to get my attention. More people = More dollars. What is the point of posting the Healing testimonies if not to bring in more people. It's the wrong reason. You can say you want to show had good God is, or show God wants to heal, but that is just something you tell yourself to cover up your own conscience. 

 

2Co_1:6  And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. 

Eph_6:22  Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts. 

 

2Co_1:4  Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. 

 

Testimonies are designed to comfort others, not designed to just bring more people in. I only use testimonies to show a point or comfort someone. To help someone, not to put me in a better position. 

 

 

So, it's easy to get into this trap of promoting your group, much like a MLM (Multi Level Marketing) People join this if you make the group and things exciting enough. Mary Kay can't out price Walmart or sell better products. Product wise it's a flop. A group of women who gather together and form groups though can sell Mary Kay. The feel like they are part of something.

 

McDonald's is not even real food. It won't sustain your body long, but destroy it.  Yet, the company is successful in selling things that is not even healthy for you. They are not selling food, they are selling catchy slogans, convenience, low priced items and movie promotions through kid toys. 

 

Lot's of churches are just like McDonald's. No nourishment. 

 

This happens in lots of churches. A novice Pastor that starts out good, soon takes on the identity of the Healing church. He then starts making excuses as to why some people don't get healed, and starts defending his identity. He sees all the money rolling in and soon does not care if peoples testimonies are true or not. 

 

People also like to tell all the wonderful things God has done for them because they don't want to look like someone in their group who has no faith, so stretching things and making some things up seem to be OK with them.

 

This does not take away the real though. I can't base what others do to effect what I believe. I don't judge, let the Lord Judge. 

 

 

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

I really don't see the point you're e making...  

 

I am simply skeptical about a lot  of the supernatural claims that are made particularly when they are soooo  utterly fantastic and yet NEVER actually documented.  Many of the teachers and evangelists that make these claims have such a bad track record of dishonesty that I think they need to be questioned and challenged.

[By Faith]

I really don't see the point you're e making...  

 

I am simply skeptical about a lot  of the supernatural claims that are made particularly when they are soooo  utterly fantastic and yet NEVER actually documented.  Many of the teachers and evangelists that make these claims have such a bad track record of dishonesty that I think they need to be questioned and challenged.

 

How would you handle it then if you were leader/Pastor of a church where people were claiming to be healed? One minister promised to publish all the medical reports, but he never got around to doing that. Medical reports are private, and can be forged to look like real doctor reports. I am not sure how you would go about it without someone claiming fraud no matter what route you have taken.

 

Looking at youtube, there seem to be some verified miracles. One cured of Autism by just listening to Gloria Copeland tapes for 2 years, pretty amazing how standing on the Word effects things. Would these not be enough? 

 

So, how would you handle it if it were your church?

[Guest shiloh357]

I am not talking about mere healings.   I am talking about reports of resurrections and body parts being regrown.    I would want to see verification of those reports before I were to accept that they had happened.

 

History is replete of these faith healers and televangelists making claims that were later proven to be false.   They have a very bad track record of dishonesty and immorality.

 

And don't me started on Gloria Copeland and her husband Kenneth.   They are false prophets/false teachers.

[Joshua-777]

I am not talking about mere healings.   I am talking about reports of resurrections and body parts being regrown.    I would want to see verification of those reports before I were to accept that they had happened.

 

History is replete of these faith healers and televangelists making claims that were later proven to be false.   They have a very bad track record of dishonesty and immorality.

 

And don't me started on Gloria Copeland and her husband Kenneth.   They are false prophets/false teachers.

You'll know by their fruit.

One thing though, there is a really big world of people who practice spiritual gifts and all do see healings take place, and who are not associated with the televangelists. Many people like to lump all people into one sum. I have met people who have been damaged by being abused sexually by a pastor or leadership of a baptist congregation. I have met a baptist preacher who now professes atheism, I have met baptists who hold signs on the street and cuss people out as they walk by saying "Homo, your going to burn in hell." There have also been famous evangelical leaders fall in adultery, drug abuse, etc. There are some who have taught major heresy. Would it be right to say, all baptists are hypocrites who don't live out what they preach?

 

I would want to see verification of those reports before I were to accept that they had happened.

 

Here's a link about one of the Medical Journals with documented healing of blind eyes and deaf ears in Mozambique.

https://letterstocreationists.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/study-healing-miracles-in-mozambique/

https://scholarworks.iu.edu/dspace/handle/2022/14131

 

[Guest shiloh357]

The fruit of these kinds of charlatan ministries has been that the teachers and leaders and get rich and the poor gullible people who allowed themselves to be exploited get nothing, except the realization that they have been lied to.

 

 

The flaw in your  argument is that I am not saying that all Charismatics and Pentecostals are hypocrites or liars or immoral.   But in the grand scheme, the charismatic teachers have been the primary purveyors of false doctrines, and the lousy prosperity garbage and false doctrine that the movement is famous for.

 

Again, let me know when you provide actual documentation of resurrections...

[D-Dawn]

Does God heal? Absolutely! Does He heal upon demand at precisely 7pm Mon-Thur? No! He is GOD...Not a side show. He does not need a flamboyant preacher who passes around an offering plate to help Him heal if/when He chooses to.

[By Faith]

The fruit of these kinds of charlatan ministries has been that the teachers and leaders and get rich and the poor gullible people who allowed themselves to be exploited get nothing, except the realization that they have been lied to.

 

 

The flaw in your  argument is that I am not saying that all Charismatics and Pentecostals are hypocrites or liars or immoral.   But in the grand scheme, the charismatic teachers have been the primary purveyors of false doctrines, and the lousy prosperity garbage and false doctrine that the movement is famous for.

 

Again, let me know when you provide actual documentation of resurrections...

 

I have seen cancer healed, aids healed, the girl I laid hands on had her stomach put back together as someone had sown it together (I did see those medical reports) My friend raised his friend back to life, verified by many there who had been dead all night long, pronounced dead by the paramedics and put in a bag. 

 

Now why don't we see limbs grow back? I have never laid hands on anyone to get their limbs back, so I have no experience in that. 

 

One thing I do know is that people used to do these things for the Lord sacrifice their time and life to spend it in the Word and with the Lord. It's really a all day thing, every day. They shut out TV, the World, and focus on the Lord and the Word. 

 

Even the Apostles said we should not be waiting tables, but give ourselves time in prayer and with the Lord.

 

So, I fully believe if we will sell out completely to the Lord, remove all the unbelief of I have never seen it before, then all things become possible. 

 

If God can heal cancer, make a man out of dust, then fixing a missing limb is not hard for him at all. It's hard for us to stop walking after what we see, and start believing in a God that is not limited by anything but unbelief. Even Israel did not enter in because of unbelief, ought to be an example to us, but to many it's not. 

 

Until people go from God can, to God will. The people won't experience much God can do. Even David had enough sense to say 1,000 at my side shall fall, 10,000 at my right hand, But..it shall not come neigh me. David had no question if He was coming back from battle, and it did not matter how out numbered they where. Today we question, will God? Is it God's will to help? Will it be in some mysterious way we won't understand until we get to Heaven?