Defense of the Post-Trib / Pre-Wrath Position

[Sister]

Hi Marcus I put this in the wrong topic section by mistake and just noticed.

I will delete the post and move it into the section where I want it.

Thanks anyway, but I see the 70 weeks as being fulfilled when the temple was destroyed in 70ad.

 

 

[WilliamL]

21 hours ago, Sister said:

Thanks anyway, but I see the 70 weeks as being fulfilled when the temple was destroyed in 70ad.

Yup.

[Guest BacKaran]

Charles Cooper has a great pre wrath site with a chart explaining the different views.

 

I was in a protestant church taking a class on Daniel. This church was pre trib which I knew nothing of what they were talking about. I asked so, if you say we are raptured out before the Antichrist reigns, why does the bible teach us to endure until the end? No worries they said, we are out of here.....

 

Here's how I understand pre wrath.

The Antichrist will reign and cause tribulations for all believers at the abomination of desolation where he announced he's god. There will be a remnant who remain who are left behind after the rapture and they will be witnesses to Gods wrath against all unbelievers, they will not be part of God's wrath.

Village schools of the bible is a great hermanuetically correct expository teaching bible class on line. 

They have several classes and I personally have taken Genesis to Revelation classes four times. I'm always learning something new in each class! 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Perhaps the webmaster can start a permanent thread on Preterism.
.....If he does, I have a LOT of questions to pose to those who think as such.
And maybe another on Amillennialism.

But for now, this is still a Pre-Wrath thread, and part and parcel with that eschatology, it takes a futuristic bent on the one 'seven'.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

48 minutes ago, BacKaran said:

The Antichrist will reign and cause tribulations for all believers at the abomination of desolation where he announced he's god.

Well, the exact wording in Revelation chapter 13 is a little different, but in a gist, you have detailed a portion of Pre-Wrath eschatology.
 

49 minutes ago, BacKaran said:

There will be a remnant who remain who are left behind after the rapture and they will be witnesses to Gods wrath against all unbelievers, they will not be part of God's wrath.

I don't know where you get that though.
I do know that there is a Remnant of God's people, the Jews, who do survive the Day of the Lord and the subsequent Wrath of God.  A good portion are actually protected by God, and personally with Jesus, although they will not recognize Him as such until the Millennium.

• Most of those "left behind" at the Rapture are the wicked; they will all die.  Only the meek among them manage to survive.
• There are at least the Two Witnesses who are left behind.  Some other believers might add to the number of Martyrs God has planned.
• All of the non-believing Jews are left behind, and not all of them "make it" to the Millennium.  Again, God has reserved a Remnant who have a heart toward Him, who will accept Jesus as their Messiah King, and wail when they realize they had rejected Him as Servant Messiah.

[Sister]

7 hours ago, BacKaran said:

Here's how I understand pre wrath.

The Antichrist will reign and cause tribulations for all believers at the abomination of desolation where he announced he's god. There will be a remnant who remain who are left behind after the rapture and they will be witnesses to Gods wrath against all unbelievers, they will not be part of God's wrath.

 

Hi BacKaran.

Here's a little something you can look into if you're interested and test.

The "the abomination of desolation" where the false prophet sits in the temple and declares that he is god is not at the beginning of the tribulation, or in the middle but closer to the end of his rule, right at the tail of it.

The false prophet is given only 3 1/2 yrs to rule.

After the false prophet has achieved and fulfilled all that he has been appointed and set out to do, ...and this includes killing the two witnesses, he will sit in his temple, which is now completed and declare himself god.  This is the abomination of desolation.

The two witnesses will preach in Israel for only 3 1/2 yrs.

The FP and the world will blame them for all the plagues.

The FP and his kingdom cannot touch the two witnesses for 3 1/2 yrs because God is with them.

After their 3 1/2 yrs is up, The FP will kill them and the world will rejoice.

This is when the FP sits in his temple and declares himself as god.  He is rejoicing at all he has achieved, and the death of the two witnesses increases his pride even more.  This is when evil has come to the full, and he declares himself god.  This is the end of the 6th trumpet/vial, the 2nd woe. 

The 3rd woe comes quickly.  How quickly?

Give another 45 days for Christ to come, because before he comes all the nations have to make their way into Israel for the great war, and then whilst they are there, the gathering of the armies against the Lamb of God (Armageddon).

The abomination of desolation is at the end of the tribulation, and the false prophet doesn't announce that he's god at the beginning, but closer to the end.  45 days before Christ returns to be precise (Dan 12:11 - 13)

Don't get "the daily sacrifice" being taken away confused with the "abomination of desolation".  They are two different events.  One's at the beginning, and one's at the end of the tribulation. 

The two witnesses being killed ends the 3 1/2 tribulation of the saints. No more will be killed at this point.  They were the last.

The saints of the first resurrection will be all caught up together at the same time at the coming.

 

 

 

[Guest BacKaran]

Hi sister, correct. I've taken several revelation classes and tho I differ on the three and a half years, the Antichrist will reign at least 3 1/2 years, could be  more... but our focus should be on the signs of Christ's coming return. Not on the Antichrist.

Believers will need the Holy Spirit at that time like none before to endure until death or Christ's return. But it's all good news for believers as we know this life is but a vapor, amen !?

Edited October 31, 2016 by BacKaran

[Guest BacKaran]

Hi sister, correct. I've taken several revelation classes and tho I differ on the three and a half years, the Antichrist will reign at least 3 1/2 years, could be  more... but our focus should be on the signs of Christ's coming return. Not on the Antichrist.

Believers will needed the Holy Spirit at that time like none before to ensure until death it Christ's return. Do it's all good news for believers as we know this life is but a vapor, amen !?

PS I will find my notes do I can write scriptures better on this topic.

[WilliamL]

21 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

But for now, this is still a Pre-Wrath thread, and part and parcel with that eschatology, it takes a futuristic bent on the one 'seven'.

So you take it upon yourself to define what can and cannot be pre-wrath doctrine. When did George put you in charge of this string?

[Sister]

16 hours ago, BacKaran said:

Hi sister, correct. I've taken several revelation classes and tho I differ on the three and a half years, the Antichrist will reign at least 3 1/2 years, could be  more... but our focus should be on the signs of Christ's coming return. Not on the Antichrist.

Believers will need the Holy Spirit at that time like none before to endure until death or Christ's return. But it's all good news for believers as we know this life is but a vapor, amen !?

Hi BacKaran

Thank you.  I am only speaking of the False Prophet because this is the major sign that Jesus comes soon.  It will be a big turning point and definite proof that scripture is true when fulfilled.  No interpretation needed.  It's clear and direct.

....and for all our brothers and sisters not to be taken by surprise, but to be armed with full knowledge and know that we all must go through it together, and not to take the wrong turn, but build up our faith, self control and wake the sleepy ones out of their slumber, so they don't think when the time comes that they have been forsaken, but blessed to suffer for Christ's name.

Blessings.