Pets, Idolatry, and our current state of affairs.

[missmuffet]

 

The animals we know down here are part of the cursed world we live in.  As much as people love their pets, they are not redeemed out of the world and will not go to heaven.

 

I am coming in late but I do see an issue with what you wrote. Adam sinned and Eve was deceived. Because of that, we live in a fallen world. Animals did not sin, but are stuck living in a fallen world. Since animals did not sin, they are in no need for redemption.

Animals do have souls. The Hebrew word nephesh means soul, and is used for animals in the original Hebrew OT. Animals are called or referred to as becoming living souls.

 

In the garden of Eden, Adam had dominion over the animals, named them, and cared for the garden. I have always been surprised that so many animals, when fed by humans, come to know that humans will feed them and become beggars. That hit home when I watched wild fish living near a dock in an ocean bay with a restaurant on it. The fish could see a person above and would all gather face up, to beg for food.  For those familiar, one place I saw fish beg was on Pier 39 in San Francisco.

 

I believe that even though animals live in a fallen world, and due to the curse because of Adams sin, fend for themselves, there is still some kind of deep affinity between man and animals. 

 

The Bible is silent if animals have a soul.If the Bible is silent on something I do not speculate.

[missmuffet]

All of this creation is under a curse and that is why it will one day be destroyed.   That animals did not sin is irrelevant.    They are still not redeemed creatures.  They don't go to heaven when they die.  They simply cease to exist.

 

You don't honestly believe that Fido goes to heaven when he dies do you?  

Many people do believe that Shiloh and many people want to believe that for various reasons.We need to have compassion and understanding on this subject.

[missmuffet]

There are certainly some weird creatures in heaven, like the four living beings.  Who knows what else we shall find up there? I'm looking forward to seeing the Lion of Judah, and the Lamb of God.  

 

I don't know for sure, so I'm not gonna act like I do.

 

Peace

Aren't they a type of angel?

[Qnts2]

 

 

The animals we know down here are part of the cursed world we live in.  As much as people love their pets, they are not redeemed out of the world and will not go to heaven.

 

I am coming in late but I do see an issue with what you wrote. Adam sinned and Eve was deceived. Because of that, we live in a fallen world. Animals did not sin, but are stuck living in a fallen world. Since animals did not sin, they are in no need for redemption.

Animals do have souls. The Hebrew word nephesh means soul, and is used for animals in the original Hebrew OT. Animals are called or referred to as becoming living souls.

 

In the garden of Eden, Adam had dominion over the animals, named them, and cared for the garden. I have always been surprised that so many animals, when fed by humans, come to know that humans will feed them and become beggars. That hit home when I watched wild fish living near a dock in an ocean bay with a restaurant on it. The fish could see a person above and would all gather face up, to beg for food.  For those familiar, one place I saw fish beg was on Pier 39 in San Francisco.

 

I believe that even though animals live in a fallen world, and due to the curse because of Adams sin, fend for themselves, there is still some kind of deep affinity between man and animals. 

 

The Bible is silent if animals have a soul.If the Bible is silent on something I do not speculate.

 

 

I do not see the bible as silent. The Hebrew word translated as soul is 'nephesh'.

 

Gen 1:21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

 

This is from the KJV translation. The word translated as creature is nephesh.

 

Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

 

In verse 30, the did not really translate nephesh.  It says nephesh chai. Chai means live. I would say it actually says wherein there is a living soul.

 

So, in English, it nevers says animals have or are souls but in Hebrew, it does attribute a soul to animals.

 

Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

 

Once again in Genesis 2:19 Adam named every living creature but in Hebrew is says nephesh chai, which has been translated as living creature.  Now, just for a comparison.

 

Genesis 2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 

The words translated to English as living soul is nephesh chai in Hebrew.

 

adding stuff.

 

In the Jewish Publication Society translation:

 

JPS Genesis 1:30 and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is a living soul, I have given every green herb for food.' And it was so.

KJV Genesis 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

 

JPS sometimes translates scripture speaking about animals as creatures and sometimes souls. Same word, nephesh.

[Guest shiloh357]

Animals have souls, but they do not have spirits.   They are never presented as a trichotomy.   Animals simply die and cease to exist.  They do not have an conscious existence after this life.

[missmuffet]

Animals have souls, but they do not have spirits.   They are never presented as a trichotomy.   Animals simply die and cease to exist.  They do not have an conscious existence after this life.

Please show me scripture that animals have a soul but they do not have a spirit.

[LadyKay]

All of this creation is under a curse and that is why it will one day be destroyed.   That animals did not sin is irrelevant.    They are still not redeemed creatures.  They don't go to heaven when they die.  They simply cease to exist.

 

You don't honestly believe that Fido goes to heaven when he dies do you?  

 

How can you say you know? Have you died and gone to heaven? Who is to say that when I die that maybe part of my reward in heaven will be that I am reunited with my lost pet? This is for God to decide not us. I see no harm in considering the possibility that we can be reunited with our lost pets any more then I see any harm in wondering what heaven might be like. Such as will there be tress and grass and such as that?

[Guest shiloh357]

I know what the Bible says and it is categorically wrong to give people false hope just to coddle them emotionally.   Jesus didn't die to redeem animals, or plants or rocks, or dirt or water or anything else on this cursed planet.  

 

The world including the animals were created for us.  They were not created equal to us and they are not redeemable.   Jesus died human beings.   This earth, according to the book of Revelation will be destroyed and everything with it.

 

Going strickly by what the Bible says and not injecting emotion into it, animals, while they have a limited soul, do not have a human spirit that can be regenerated.   We need to stop letting our emotional attachment to pets cloud our thinking in these matters.   What I have seen thus far is a very emotional interpretation, but a sound interpretation of Scripture.

 

The fact is that heaven is not going to be anything like we have now.   We are led to think that what we enjoy down here, will be waiting for us there and that shows just how little we understand heaven.

 

It's like comparing fun of Disney Land with making mud pies by the curb.

[Deborah_]

I know what the Bible says and it is categorically wrong to give people false hope just to coddle them emotionally.   Jesus didn't die to redeem animals, or plants or rocks, or dirt or water or anything else on this cursed planet.  

 

The world including the animals were created for us.  They were not created equal to us and they are not redeemable.   Jesus died human beings.   This earth, according to the book of Revelation will be destroyed and everything with it.

 

"God was pleased to have all His fulness dwell in [the Son], and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things (not just us), whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross." (Colossians 1:19,20)

 

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth..."

 

Animals are not equal to us, but that doesn't make them of no concern to God (Matthew 10:29).

 

 

I am surprised by the strength of feeling against animals participating in the life to come. I don't expect to be disappointed if I never see my pets again (because the presence of God will be overwhelmingly wonderful anyway), but some contributors  sound as though the presence of animals would somehow spoil it for them.

 

Now I do think it significant that the great Old Testament paradigms of salvation (the Passover, and the story of Jonah) explicitly INclude animals. (Exodus 10:26, 12:29; Jonah 4:11). Whereas no-one has yet produced a single text that specifically excludes them.

[missmuffet]

 

All of this creation is under a curse and that is why it will one day be destroyed.   That animals did not sin is irrelevant.    They are still not redeemed creatures.  They don't go to heaven when they die.  They simply cease to exist.

 

You don't honestly believe that Fido goes to heaven when he dies do you?  

 

How can you say you know? Have you died and gone to heaven? Who is to say that when I die that maybe part of my reward in heaven will be that I am reunited with my lost pet? This is for God to decide not us. I see no harm in considering the possibility that we can be reunited with our lost pets any more then I see any harm in wondering what heaven might be like. Such as will there be tress and grass and such as that?

 

No one knows since the Bible is silent on this issue so it is best to let it go.People want to hold on to what they find comfortable and safe on this earth but when we get to heaven earthly things will all be put behind us.No one is going to be crying in heaven because their pet is not there.We will not remember our lives on this earth and if we do it will be a very,very distant memory.