The Lord Jesus Christ

[Ezra]

I believe that the phrase “the Lord Jesus Christ” has been blown way out of proportion in this modern age.

That statement automatically disqualifies you from further discussion about this subject.  Since Scripture blows this designation "out of proportion" your attempt to minimize its importance speaks volume. 

 

As I said before, Retro, you seem to engage in adjusting God's truth to suit your fancies, and lengthy dissertations do not change that fact.  In fact lengthy dissertations do not follow the pattern of the Lord and His apostles, who were concise, brief, and to the point.

 

As I have mentioned above, Christians today have generally have failed to grasp the significance of this designation, and mostly speak simply of "Jesus" or "Yeshua".  That is not what God would have us do.

[ENOCH2010]

I'll try it again now Roy, how is this. The Anointed Master that rescues his people

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn C.

 

Hi Retrobyter,

 

That is some really good teaching there. I appreciated it. Thank you.

 

In short - In their combination, these three titles (the Lord Jesus Christ), express His administrative power, His atoning passion, & His anointed person.

 

Marilyn.

 

Yes! Very good!

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Ezra.

 

 

I believe that the phrase “the Lord Jesus Christ” has been blown way out of proportion in this modern age.

That statement automatically disqualifies you from further discussion about this subject.  Since Scripture blows this designation "out of proportion" your attempt to minimize its importance speaks volume. 

 

As I said before, Retro, you seem to engage in adjusting God's truth to suit your fancies, and lengthy dissertations do not change that fact.  In fact lengthy dissertations do not follow the pattern of the Lord and His apostles, who were concise, brief, and to the point.

 

As I have mentioned above, Christians today have generally have failed to grasp the significance of this designation, and mostly speak simply of "Jesus" or "Yeshua".  That is not what God would have us do.

 

 

Oh, hogwash. It’s not 'Scripture blows this designation "out of proportion”’; it’s people’s INTERPRETATION of Scripture that blows this designation “out of proportion!"

 

And, the Lord and His apostles didn’t have to contend with a people who didn’t understand their own Bible’s language; therefore, they could afford to be “concise, brief, and to the point.”

 

It’s like trying to explain how electricity works to a third-world people who have never even used electricity before! FIRST, one must develop a working knowledge of what electricity is, preferably with working models as examples, so that THEN one can try to explain how that electricity works.

 

People today have been taught so much ... GARBAGE ... that they’re not even on the same page as the believers of the first century were!

 

For instance, to say that Yeshua` was “Lord” does NOT automatically mean that He is God! It means that He is our MASTER! It’s not an exclusive designation for Him; it’s a term of RESPECT and used as we would use the word “Sir” or “Sire!” We can hold Him in our highest respect as our future, benevolent, worthy King! When Yeshua` is said to become a “King of kings,” it means that He shall be a WORLD EMPEROR, and as such, “every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Yeshua` ("He shall rescue"), God's Messiah, is MASTER to the glory of God the Father!” (Philippians 2:9-11)

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, simplejeff.

 

basically i agree with ezra here.

 

also> this seems so 'wrong' (out of place here) re quote below >

but it may or may not have a place or a point somewhere,  just

much too lengthy without clear purpose for me.

 

"And, it’s also important to understand that there was indeed more than one “messiah” or “christ” or “anointed-(one)." Beginning with Aharon (Aaron), all the priests were so anointed."
 

 

Well, the point is simple: There was more than one “christ.” It’s not the term “christ” that carries anything special; it’s that He is GOD’S “Christ”; GOD’S “Anointed one!” And, God has had OTHERS who were also “christs!” Don’t think that there’s anything inherently special in the word “Christ” itself!

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, ENOCH2010.

 

I'll try it again now Roy, how is this. The Anointed Master that rescues his people

 

Sounds good. Just understand that the “Anointed Master” is God’s Representative King, and right now, He is a King Apparent!

[Guest shiloh357]

Retro,

 

 

Talk about garbage.  For someone who thinks he understands the biblical languages, you don't know squat.    The term, "Lord"  as it is applied to Jesus in the Bible means way more than "master"  or "sir."    It is the word that is equivalent to the four letter name of God and this is the Name that is associated with Jesus' deity in Philippians 2:5-11

 

And frankly, the first century believers knew Jesus was God and worshipped him as such.    You don't know what you are talking about.   You are not a true follower of Jesus if you deny his deity.

[Bible2]

shiloh357 said in post 2:

 

He's God

 

Amen!

 

The Lord Jesus Christ is God (John 1:1,14, John 10:30, John 20:28, Titus 2:13, Philippians 2:6, Matthew 1:23). And he is uncreated God, just as God the Father is uncreated God. For everything created was created by Jesus (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17). Because Jesus is uncreated, there was never a time when he was not. He has always existed. He is YHWH the Holy One, from everlasting (Habakkuk 1:12a, Acts 3:14, Micah 5:2c). He is YHWH the only Savior (Isaiah 43:11, Titus 2:13), YHWH the good shepherd (Psalms 23:1, John 10:11, Mark 10:18), YHWH who will set his feet on the Mount of Olives at his return (Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12), YHWH the first and last (Isaiah 44:6, Revelation 2:8), YHWH the great I AM (Exodus 3:14, John 8:58), the great God (Titus 2:13), the mighty God (Isaiah 9:6), one God with God the Father (John 10:30, John 20:28), equal in divinity to God the Father (Philippians 2:6).

 

Just as the Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19) is the 3 distinct, coexisting Persons (Mark 1:9-11) of God the Father (Galatians 1:3), God the Son (Hebrews 1:8), and God the Holy Spirit (cf. Mark 13:11 and Matthew 10:19-20; Acts 5:3-4), so the Trinity is YHWH the Father, YHWH the Son, and YHWH the Holy Spirit. For YHWH is the only God (Isaiah 45:5-6). He has always been and forever will be the only God (Isaiah 43:10b).

 

-

 

There are so many ways to illustrate the Trinity (the Tri-Unity of God), it shouldn't be difficult for every Christian to get at least some realization of it. While there is no sufficient analogy to completely explain God (Isaiah 40:18), how he can be one God (John 10:30) and yet 3 Persons at the same time (Matthew 3:16-17), the Bible does refer to God speaking things into existence (Genesis 1:24; Hebrews 11:3). And what he spoke was his Word, who is that Person of the Trinity who has become flesh in Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14; 1 Timothy 3:16, Luke 24:39). But God the Word existed even before God the Father spoke anything into existence, for all things created were created by God the Word (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17). And the original Greek word in John 1:1,14 for "Word" is "Logos", which refers not only to spoken words, but also to any ordered thoughts. God has always had ordered thoughts, so God the Word has always existed.

 

So a human analogy for God would have God the Father as the mind, and God the Word as the ordered thoughts, speech, and writings (incarnate words) of that mind. God the Holy Spirit would be analogous to the breath (spirit) which is inextricable from human speech, and also from ordered thought, in that a non-breathing person is dead and his brain has no thoughts. God the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4) is one God with God the Father and God the Word because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father (Matthew 10:19-20 & Mark 13:11) and the Spirit of the Word (John 14:16-18, Romans 8:9). While an individual human isn't 3 persons, the truth about God can still be grasped by looking at man's design, for man was made in God's image (Genesis 1:26). Just as an individual man has his word (Revelation 12:11) and his spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23), so the one God has his Word (John 1:1) and his Spirit (Romans 8:9). But the one God is so infinitely greater than man (Isaiah 40:17) that the Word of God and the Spirit of God are distinct Persons within his single being.

 

Besides the analogy of a single human's mind, thoughts/speech/writings, and breath, the Trinity can be compared to the single sun's sphere, light, and heat. The Father would be analogous to the sun's sphere, which is invisible to humans except for its visible light, which is analogous to the incarnate, visible Word (Colossians 1:15, John 14:9). And the sun is felt by humans via its invisible, infrared rays, which would be analogous to the Spirit. The Trinity can also be compared to water, which even though it is one substance, it can exist in 3 states of solid, liquid, and gas at the same time (such as in a water pitcher 2/3 full with water and ice cubes, and with water vapor filling the top third of the pitcher). The Trinity can also be compared to space, which even though it is one area, it consists of 3 dimensions at the same time. The Trinity can also be compared to 1 x 1 x 1 = 1, or to 1a x 1b x 1c = 1abc.

 

-

 

Someone might ask: "So does God pray to himself?"

 

Jesus prays to God the Father (e.g. John 11:41-42) because even though Jesus is God (John 1:1,14), at the same time he is also human just like we are human (Hebrews 2:17). And so, as a human, he has a God and Father just like we do (John 20:17). Before Jesus became our eternally-human mediator/high priest (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 2:17, Hebrews 7:24-26), and the only-begotten (only-born) Son of God (John 3:16), the only human ever born without any human father (Luke 1:34-35), he preexisted (John 17:5, John 8:58) from all eternity as God the Word (John 1:1,14; 1 Timothy 3:16). He has always been, and still is, even now in human flesh (Luke 24:39; 2 John 1:7), one God with the Father (John 10:30, John 20:28, Titus 2:13), equal in divinity to the Father (Philippians 2:6, Revelation 2:8b, Isaiah 44:6).

[Qnts2]

Shalom, Ezra.

 

 

I believe that the phrase “the Lord Jesus Christ” has been blown way out of proportion in this modern age.

That statement automatically disqualifies you from further discussion about this subject.  Since Scripture blows this designation "out of proportion" your attempt to minimize its importance speaks volume. 

 

As I said before, Retro, you seem to engage in adjusting God's truth to suit your fancies, and lengthy dissertations do not change that fact.  In fact lengthy dissertations do not follow the pattern of the Lord and His apostles, who were concise, brief, and to the point.

 

As I have mentioned above, Christians today have generally have failed to grasp the significance of this designation, and mostly speak simply of "Jesus" or "Yeshua".  That is not what God would have us do.

 

 

Oh, hogwash. It’s not 'Scripture blows this designation "out of proportion”’; it’s people’s INTERPRETATION of Scripture that blows this designation “out of proportion!"

 

And, the Lord and His apostles didn’t have to contend with a people who didn’t understand their own Bible’s language; therefore, they could afford to be “concise, brief, and to the point.”

 

It’s like trying to explain how electricity works to a third-world people who have never even used electricity before! FIRST, one must develop a working knowledge of what electricity is, preferably with working models as examples, so that THEN one can try to explain how that electricity works.

 

People today have been taught so much ... GARBAGE ... that they’re not even on the same page as the believers of the first century were!

 

For instance, to say that Yeshua` was “Lord” does NOT automatically mean that He is God! It means that He is our MASTER! It’s not an exclusive designation for Him; it’s a term of RESPECT and used as we would use the word “Sir” or “Sire!” We can hold Him in our highest respect as our future, benevolent, worthy King! When Yeshua` is said to become a “King of kings,” it means that He shall be a WORLD EMPEROR, and as such, “every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Yeshua` ("He shall rescue"), God's Messiah, is MASTER to the glory of God the Father!” (Philippians 2:9-11)

 

I'll agree with most who have already answered. Your knowledge of Hebrew appears to be from a concordance, and not knowledge of the language, and grammar which makes all the difference as to how to actually understand what is being said.

 

The term 'the Lord Jesus Christ' is a very very powerful and unique term. Anyone in the first century Israel would have clearly understood what is being said as that term is so unique, and a long awaited prophetic fulfillment. Throughout the NT, it is very clear the Jesus is God. There are no reasonable doubts as to what Jesus is saying about Himself.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, shiloh357, Bible2, and Qnts2.

 

Sorry, brothers, but it’s YOU who don’t know squat!

 

Look, the problem is in the GREEK! Not the Hebrew! The Hebrew “Adonay” translated to the Greek “kurios”; the Hebrew “YHVH” translated to the Greek “kurios.” This is a problem which arose within the few centuries around our Lord’s coming. (The original Greek, the Koine Greek of the NT, did not use capital letters as we do today; so, PLEASE don’t make the mistake of thinking that you can drag that into this argument!) This is true not only for the papyri and manuscripts of the NT, but also for the Septuagint! Which was which? WHEN translators who were knowledgable about Hebrew and Greek knew what was translated, they translated the “kurios” of the LXX into the English “LORD” (for the Hebrew “YHVH”) and “Lord” (for the Hebrew “Adonay”) in the KJV. Other versions do not do so well. They were not consistent in doing so within the NT.

 

So, I agree that SOME of the occurrences of “kurios” in the NT stem from the Hebrew “YHVH,” but certainly not ALL of them! Many more are occurrences of translation from the Hebrew (or Aramaic) “Adonay,” meaning “master” or “sir.” Consider: When you read of a stranger coming up to Yeshua` during His ministry and saying, “Lord, help me,” (Greek: “kurie, boeethei moi,” Matt. 15:25), that stranger is not calling Him “YHVH!” That would be absurd! Furthermore, others in the crowd would have taken personal offense and said something right away or might even have acted violently against such “blasphemy!” She was saying to Him, “Sir, help me!” Also, when is “worshipping” not “worshipping?” The answer is “when someone is bowing down!” When the same person is said to have “worshipped him” (Greek: "prosekunei autoo"), it simply means that she fell down at His feet, begging for His help! DON’T READ INTO THE SCRIPTURES MORE THAN IS THERE! THAT’S EISEGESIS!