Guest Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 In fact where does it say that the holy spirit is a person? I am lacking the energy to discuss the issue of the Holy Spirit’s personhood, but I wanted to step in and defend Him, so here are a few links that go into details about this issue (including many references from Scripture): Is the Holy Spirit a person?: http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-person.html Pneumatology: The Holy Spirit: https://bible.org/seriespage/4-pneumatology-holy-spirit The Personality & Deity of the Holy Spirit proven from the Bible: http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-holy-spirit-personality-deity.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2015 The Holy Spirit is the only Person with sufficient power. This is correct. Only God controls Satan, and therefore only God the Holy Spirit restrains Satan. Whereas we see a vision of Michael AND HIS ANGELS in Revelation 12, we find that in 2 Thess 2:7 that it is only one Person -- "He" -- who restrains Satan. If Michael was the Restrainer, we would not read in Jude 9 the following statement: Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. If Michael had the power and the authority to restrain Satan, he would not need to say "the Lord rebuke thee". We would find him saying "I rebuke thee and command thee to be gone". Only Christ, who is God, could command the devil to depart, and he did slink away with his tail between his legs (in a manner of speaking) (Mt 4:10). Michael is an archangel, but Lucifer was even higher than that originally, and even now has powerful hierarchies of angels under him (Eph 6). And quoting from Daniel only confirms that Michael is the archangel appointed to watch over Israel, whereas the context of 2 Thess 2 makes it quite clear that the issue is wider than that, encompassing the entire world. As to the Church being the Restrainer, that is implausible since the Church is not a "he", but the one who indwells the Church -- the Holy Spirit -- is "He". Which reminds us that God is always referred to in the masculine gender. It is hard to understand why anyone would regard an archangel as equivalent to God, other than the fact that the cults have promoted Michael to be equal to God. For Roman Catholics and Orthodox, he became "St. Michael". You could say he began to be worshipped. Christian sanctuaries to Michael appeared in the 4th century, when he was first seen as a healing angel, and then over time as a protector and the leader of the army of God against the forces of evil. Ever since the New Age Movement swept across the world, angels have been receiving credit instead of God, and mediums are talking about putting you in touch with your guardian angel, and having you pray to your guardian angel (which is pure deception). But according to Scripture, angels are "ministering spirits", who exist solely to be at God's service, and work on behalf of His saints. Michael works on behalf of Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2015 Can somebody gives us the right answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) EZRA, thank you for pointing that out, I did not see that view or this explained like that before, that makes a lot of sense ,I know personally that jesus was made low for a time as the sacrificial lamb of God for the ransom of many at the cross by his blood ,but now He sits at the right hand of the father and all authority is given to the son over the angels and over the world where death and sin has no more hold on us,anymore oh death where is thy sting,? and when all things have been done and done by the Son, the father will take it over and complete the will of God as promised , so to be on the safe side and not to go back on my first choice of what I said, this makes me think and know reguardlessly, that God is overall in control of this plan of appointed times for no one knows the day or the hour but the father in heaven and if the father uses the holy spirit which is what omegaman 3.0 said is the frequency of communication being spiritual,to fulfill his plans with the spirit or angels, it is still God that is holding it all together and we being flesh, we need to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh ,I can see that it is God, that is almighty and all powerful to keep his promises and to carry out as we are taught ,and read in His word and to endure until the end , and as for micheal , to be the angel that looks after his domain of responsibilities to God for watching over the jews and the chosen people of God, which will be defended in due time in the day of the lord by the coming brightness of the glory of our lord and king and savior jesus Christ the son of God which comes as a roaring lion and not as the sacrificial lamb, this time with all of the mighty angels to put to a end, the evil and the principalities of darkness and wicked lawlessness the devil once and for all, and so shall we dwell with the lord forever more, amen.... so I believe we can agree it is of God ,by only he knows the day or the hour , and the appointed times for these things to happen, not even the son of God, and for it will be about our trust in faith in jesus which supports us and sustains us to endure until the end , for God is in control, because as we were saved by our belief in jesus and the work of Gods will for our salvation ,through the anointing of the holy spirit we are the temples and the spirit dwells in us, we are then saved ,by the agape love of God, and this is just awesome to know , that through all this we understand the ways of the lord even though, we may not be able to get our minds around this , for how can we even phantom the depths of Gods love towards us, we still wonder in our walks with God, but how big He is and how small we are but he loves us ,and tell us all of these things, so that we are prepared and ready for he will do as He has promised , and we are so blessed, our cups over flow,and run over in blessings and grace because He loves us so much!, this is awesome , we serve a righteous and just God.....thank you all and lets go share the word with others , we need to reach others with the great news of the gospel....Amen.. I pray that I am in line with biblical facts and that my opinion is my opinion, and that if I am wrong at anytime or in any way that I ask for your sincer advise and correction, for I am always learning of the love of god, and I try not to dwell on the complete nickel and dimes of any subject but to come to a conclusion that is always adifying and positive and scriptural, I would not want to mislead anyone, or be deceived my self to bel;ieve something that was not of the true word of God, thank you brothers and sisters and don't mind my spelling,i am not a writer. Edited August 5, 2015 by SINNERSAVED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2015 In fact where does it say that the holy spirit is a person? I am lacking the energy to discuss the issue of the Holy Spirit’s personhood, but I wanted to step in and defend Him, so here are a few links that go into details about this issue (including many references from Scripture): Is the Holy Spirit a person?: http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-person.html Pneumatology: The Holy Spirit: https://bible.org/seriespage/4-pneumatology-holy-spirit The Personality & Deity of the Holy Spirit proven from the Bible: http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-holy-spirit-personality-deity.htm Greetings Ethrayn Thank you for your reply. Firstly, you said that you wanted to defend the holy spirit as if I was attacking him. I am all for the holy spirit, not against him, so maybe you feel that I am attacking .....your doctrine? For the record I am not confused about the holy spirit, and understand him fully. I had a quick look at your links, and to be frank, I can't have dialogue with a website, but I can have dialogue with you. The holy spirit is referred to as a "he" because he is always in God, and we know God is not a "she". Your spirit is the essence of you. God's spirit is the essence of him. His spirit is holy and can do powerful things, and is there with him in every word he speaks and everything he does. Now "a person" is a "human being". God is not a human being for he is "spirit", so how can what inside him be a human being, ...a person? It doesn't make sense and I find this teaching funny? It is not accurate to say the holy spirit is "a person" because he's "spirit" Does anyone ever ask this question to themselves or do they just accept everything their told? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2015 The Holy Spirit is the only Person with sufficient power. This is correct. Only God controls Satan, and therefore only God the Holy Spirit restrains Satan. Whereas we see a vision of Michael AND HIS ANGELS in Revelation 12, we find that in 2 Thess 2:7 that it is only one Person -- "He" -- who restrains Satan. If Michael was the Restrainer, we would not read in Jude 9 the following statement: Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. If Michael had the power and the authority to restrain Satan, he would not need to say "the Lord rebuke thee". We would find him saying "I rebuke thee and command thee to be gone". Only Christ, who is God, could command the devil to depart, and he did slink away with his tail between his legs (in a manner of speaking) (Mt 4:10). Michael is an archangel, but Lucifer was even higher than that originally, and even now has powerful hierarchies of angels under him (Eph 6). And quoting from Daniel only confirms that Michael is the archangel appointed to watch over Israel, whereas the context of 2 Thess 2 makes it quite clear that the issue is wider than that, encompassing the entire world. As to the Church being the Restrainer, that is implausible since the Church is not a "he", but the one who indwells the Church -- the Holy Spirit -- is "He". Which reminds us that God is always referred to in the masculine gender. It is hard to understand why anyone would regard an archangel as equivalent to God, other than the fact that the cults have promoted Michael to be equal to God. For Roman Catholics and Orthodox, he became "St. Michael". You could say he began to be worshipped. Christian sanctuaries to Michael appeared in the 4th century, when he was first seen as a healing angel, and then over time as a protector and the leader of the army of God against the forces of evil. Ever since the New Age Movement swept across the world, angels have been receiving credit instead of God, and mediums are talking about putting you in touch with your guardian angel, and having you pray to your guardian angel (which is pure deception). But according to Scripture, angels are "ministering spirits", who exist solely to be at God's service, and work on behalf of His saints. Michael works on behalf of Israel. Well said Ezra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Greetings Ethrayn Thank you for your reply. Firstly, you said that you wanted to defend the holy spirit as if I was attacking him. I am all for the holy spirit, not against him, so maybe you feel that I am attacking .....your doctrine? For the record I am not confused about the holy spirit, and understand him fully. I had a quick look at your links, and to be frank, I can't have dialogue with a website, but I can have dialogue with you. The holy spirit is referred to as a "he" because he is always in God, and we know God is not a "she". Your spirit is the essence of you. God's spirit is the essence of him. His spirit is holy and can do powerful things, and is there with him in every word he speaks and everything he does. Now "a person" is a "human being". God is not a human being for he is "spirit", so how can what inside him be a human being, ...a person? It doesn't make sense and I find this teaching funny? It is not accurate to say the holy spirit is "a person" because he's "spirit" Does anyone ever ask this question to themselves or do they just accept everything their told? Sorry, I didn't mean to offend (if I did)--I just felt compelled to stand up for Him, which is why I used the word "defend." I don't even feel you are attacking my doctrine--you are entitled to your own faith, your own interpretation of Scriptures, and your own personal interactions with the Lord. I don't feel He is a human being--definitely a Spirit, but I used the word "personhood" to denote that He is a unique individual with His own personality and characteristics just as much as Jesus Christ. I actually think that it is a good thing that you think for yourself and stand firm in your position--just stating my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,992 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,690 Content Per Day: 11.79 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2015 The holy spirit does not act on it's own either. It comes out straight from God. It is the spirit of truth and is God's power. "The holy spirit does not act on it's own either." I cringe at that a little. The Holy Spirit is a person, usually when referring to persons, we use personal pronouns, not impersonal ones, the Holy Spirit is not an "it". The Holy Spirit is God.The third Person in the Trinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2015 Greetings Ethrayn Thank you for your reply. Firstly, you said that you wanted to defend the holy spirit as if I was attacking him. I am all for the holy spirit, not against him, so maybe you feel that I am attacking .....your doctrine? For the record I am not confused about the holy spirit, and understand him fully. I had a quick look at your links, and to be frank, I can't have dialogue with a website, but I can have dialogue with you. The holy spirit is referred to as a "he" because he is always in God, and we know God is not a "she". Your spirit is the essence of you. God's spirit is the essence of him. His spirit is holy and can do powerful things, and is there with him in every word he speaks and everything he does. Now "a person" is a "human being". God is not a human being for he is "spirit", so how can what inside him be a human being, ...a person? It doesn't make sense and I find this teaching funny? It is not accurate to say the holy spirit is "a person" because he's "spirit" Does anyone ever ask this question to themselves or do they just accept everything their told? Sorry, I didn't mean to offend (if I did)--I just felt compelled to stand up for Him, which is why I used the word "defend." I don't even feel you are attacking my doctrine--you are entitled to your own faith, your own interpretation of Scriptures, and your own personal interactions with the Lord. I don't feel He is a human being--definitely a Spirit, but I used the word "personhood" to denote that He is a unique individual with His own personality and characteristics just as much as Jesus Christ. I actually think that it is a good thing that you think for yourself and stand firm in your position--just stating my own. Ethrayn No offence taken and you are most definately entitled to your own say like all of us. Please join in more. I see you are new here, so a big warm welcome God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 5, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,171 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,897 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted August 5, 2015 last year we had a very long thread on this subject... someone should find it and put up a post to others to read it..... I don't have the time right now. This conversation is destined to go for a really long time if someone doesn't get back to the op subject of who is the restrainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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