WHY is the Body of Christ `caught up?`

[Marilyn C]

Now I think would be a good time to do a summary of our thoughts so far. I went through the comments & wrote out the main reasons people gave concerning the `catching away,` the rapture &  some more of my own, & saw that they fitted under two main headings. So see what you think.

1. CONDITIONS of the Rapture.

The maturing of the Body of Christ, the Unity of Faith- the complete body. (Eph. 4: 13)

The nations brought under Christ`s feet. (Ps. 110: 1)

 

2. CONSEQUENCES of the Rapture. 

Israel`s blindness taken away. (Rom. 11: 25)

To make way for God`s righteous judgments. (1 Thess. 5: 9)

Not destined for God`s wrath. (1 Thess. 5: 9)

To be like Him. (forever) (1 John 3: 2)

 

Now I have thought of two more headings -

3. PURPOSE of the Rapture (why).

4. TIMING of the Rapture (when).

So I believe there are more scriptures for us to look into & discuss. To help us along I have a question -

If we are not destined for wrath, then what are we destined for?

Marilyn.

[Ezra]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

If we are not destined for wrath, then what are we destined for?

Salvation.

[Leonardo Von]

On 10/24/2016 at 3:00 AM, Marilyn C said:

You may notice I tend to focus on one part of a post. This is because to discuss the other parts would lead us off into the many tangents associated with that topic. Now I agree with that thought you had of the Body of Christ like an orchestra, with each supplying their individual gifting as the Holy Spirit leads. Great picture there bro.

Dear sister Marilyn,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

I am perceiving that we aren’t knowing the right meaning of Church. It is for this that there is so many discussions about “pretribulationism”, “midtribulationism” or “posttribulationism”, as well as amillennialism, premillennialism, postmillennialism. Similarly, it is for this that there is difficulty of answering the question of this thread.

I believe, in addition to this, that we ought to open a thread specially to talk about “What is Church (that is, what, in fact, Jesus is building – Matthew 16.18)? Why did Jesus instituted the Church? Who constitutes the Church?”.

To you understand the problem, think: who makes up the Church? Analyze these groups of people that are in the Sacred Scripture:

 

Ø  “And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: and they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [ were ], should be fulfilled.” (Revelation 6.9-11).

These aren’t part of the Church because the request of vengeance of them is opposite to the prayer of Christ and His followers (Luke 23.34; Acts 7.60; 1Peter 2.21-24).

Ø  “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Revelation 7.9,10,13,14).

Believing that the Church will be raptured before the judgment of the vials, how can these be part of the Church?

Ø  “And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [ and ] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous [ are ] thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [ are ] thy ways, thou King of saints.” (Revelation 15.1-3).

Ø  “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [ I saw ] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [ his ] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Revelation 20.1-4).

 

What about these last groups? Admitting that posttribulationism and amillennialism are wrong, how do these groups can be part of the Church, inasmuch as they overpower the beast, his image, and his mark?

Besides, understanding that these groups are distinguished of the Church, who are they in the plan of the Eternal? Why are they mentioned separated? Are they the same group (but seen of three perspectives) or three distinct groups?

May Jesus bless you.

 

P.s.: permit me to give some clarifications:

 

1.      forgive me for, until now, I haven’t answered your question. My ignorance had been hindering me of seeing with clearness so that to give an intelligent and precise answer. Fortunately, Jesus revealed me the answer and, in the next post, I will publish it.

2.      Forgive me, also, for I have posted this here. I know that you like of all organized (me too). However, there is moments that is difficult doesn’t mix the themes, inasmuch as all the Sacred Scripture is interwoven. So much so that, you and Last Daze was talking about this (it was this that stimulated me the write this).

Thus, I quoted this post because I believe that, beyond to help you two in the solution, this may arouse the readers to think about this and, if the thread was created, to go there to participate with us in the seeking of the truth.

3.      Allow me to do an observation, with love in Christ: when you to want to add a word or expression in a verse of the Sacred Scripture, put it in curly brackets (and not in parenthesis or square brackets, because there is many verses that contain them) and, below, place an asterisk stating that treat itself of an addition to give elucidation. Thus will be more easy to understand and more precise.

I am saying this because I consider you a blessing of Jesus (I have learned very much with your questionings) and I wish you and your post to be increasingly used by Jesus to help other to meet Jesus and His truth (more than they ever are).

 

I hope you don’t get upset with me for all this post. My intention is only to help you and our beloved brothers.

[Marilyn C]

12 hours ago, Ezra said:

Salvation.

Hi Ezra,

I believe, all the different groups, who turn to God, receive salvation, and that is the means by which they can receive what they are destined for.

So....what is the Body of Christ specifically destined for ....................................... Any more thoughts?

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:

Dear sister Marilyn,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

I am perceiving that we aren’t knowing the right meaning of Church. It is for this that there is so many discussions about “pretribulationism”, “midtribulationism” or “posttribulationism”, as well as amillennialism, premillennialism, postmillennialism. Similarly, it is for this that there is difficulty of answering the question of this thread.

I believe, in addition to this, that we ought to open a thread specially to talk about “What is Church (that is, what, in fact, Jesus is building – Matthew 16.18)? Why did Jesus instituted the Church? Who constitutes the Church?”.

 

 

Hi Leonardo Von,

I certainly don`t mind you writing your good thoughts. I just meant that for me to pick up some of the points would take us off. But you are right, saying that scripture is interwoven & often we have to enlarge on a topic to explain things.

As concerning the `Body of Christ` I also thought that we often don`t see it as scripture tells us. I did write a thread on that a while ago & you may want to pick it up or start your own thread on that topic. And as to all the other groups, what God has planned for them is a wonderful topic which I would like to do in the future as it leads to the eternal purposes, which I do love to talk about. To think on His great purposes for all lifts the heart in joy & amazement at His great plan of mercy & grace. It also leads the heart to see the Lord high & lifted up  with the focus off us.

Look forward to your thoughts on `what are we destined for, if not for wrath.`

regards, Marilyn.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Marilyn C

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

So....what is the Body of Christ specifically destined for ....................................... Any more thoughts?

Marilyn,

You always manage to change the question after receiving an answer.  So let's just stay on point. Please note below that the opposite of wrath is salvation.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thess 5:9). 

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, Ezra said:

Marilyn,

You always manage to change the question after receiving an answer.  So let's just stay on point. Please note below that the opposite of wrath is salvation.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thess 5:9). 

Hi Ezra,

Yes I agree that the opposite of wrath is salvation. PTL. Wonderful. Also we know that God has given us more details of His plans & purposes for the Body of Christ. Thus it would be good to look at these in relation to our `destiny,` - destined for ........

Marilyn.

[kwikphilly]

Quote

Hi Kwikphilly,

How nice of you to contribute. I also wouldn`t know of God`s purpose unless it is written in His word. And that is what we are discussing. There are more scriptures yet to be looked at. So much to learn off each other - even your `glorify God in the Most Magnificent Way,` is so uplifting.

Marilyn.

Awww,thank you ,you are always so sweet & so kind & I do love you my Sister........your Discussions do always give Glory to our Lord God ,edify ,encourage & stimulate much "thought" as well......God Bless you,Bless all of us!

I think  there are 2 trains of thought here when searching for Gods Ultimate Purpose in rapturing His Body and it greatly depends on how the Scriptures are interpreted when we FIRST are trying to see "when" this "catching away" (rapture) takes place.....we have to begin by considering many things,,,the word "apostasia" can be quite controversial for starters......does it actually mean"falling away" or does it mean simply"departure".....if the first is true then the mid or post tribbers(like myself) will truly have to scratch their heads & say"What does God rapture us for,what Purpose does He have for us?"Now if the latter hold true then it is quite clear that God wants to spare  us from The Tribulation(pre-tribbers)

 So let's just say that we are "caught up"  pre-TRibuation......based on the following verses of Scripture where it can confirm the meaning of apostasia  to mean "departure".... In 11 out of these 15 occurrences the verb in question is rendered depart, departed, or departing,only 3 would mean"departure from the Trith" or a "falling away"

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Luke 2:37—”departed not from the temple.”

Luke 4:13—”the devil…departed from Him.”

Luke 8:13—”in time of temptation fall away.”

Luke 13:27—”depart from Me, all ye workers of iniquity.”

Acts 5:37—”drew away much people after him.”

Acts 5:38—”refrain from these men.”

Acts 12:10—”the angel departed from him.”

Acts 15:38—”who departed from them from Pamphylia.”

Acts 19:9—”he departed from them.”

Acts 22:29—”they departed from him.”

II Cor. 12:8—”I besought the Lord…that it might depart.”

I Tim. 4:1—”some shall depart from the faith.”

I Tim. 6:5—”from such withdraw thyself.”

II Tim. 2:19—”depart from iniquity.”

Heb. 3:12—”in departing from the living God.”

So,would this have any bearing on this verse of Scripture?It would change the meaning drastically,would it niot?

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“Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day [the day of the Lord] ¹shall not come except the departure come first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.”                                                             2 Thessalonians 2:3

I'm sure all the pre-Tribbers are clapping their hands right now-lol But honestly,these are some of the things I think about & pray Revelation from Holy Spirit because I honestly do not know.........this ,for me,would point to the  definitive answer to your question  WHY

But since I am not a pre-Tribber,because I have not yet been shown that pre-Trip is supported....most of us will say that there is not one verse of Scripture to conform a Pre-Tribulation Rapture for the Church....unless of course,2 Thessalonians 2:3 has been translated inaccurately....hmmmm?

That leaves me (& others like me) wondering,so what is the main reason for the Rapture....WHY?      Just my 2 cents Sis,I hope what I have added does not go off-Topic but I do think that in order for us Understand the WHY we must know WHEN.......Do you agree?                  With love-in Christ,Kwik

I quickly found the15 verses from a Berean Bible Study article because I  didn't have my paperwork sorted & I know they hold fast to the pre-Trib position
 

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

 

That leaves me (& others like me) wondering,so what is the main reason for the Rapture....WHY?      Just my 2 cents Sis,I hope what I have added does not go off-Topic but I do think that in order for us Understand the WHY we must know WHEN.......Do you agree?                  With love-in Christ,Kwik

I quickly found the15 verses from a Berean Bible Study article because I  didn't have my paperwork sorted & I know they hold fast to the pre-Trib position
 

Hi kwikphilly,

That`s great you have shared some thoughts. We need fresh input, sis. And I believe you have hit the spot, (you said) -

`I do think that in order for us Understand the WHY we must know WHEN.......Do you agree? `

I very much agree. And I hope to bring in some thoughts & scriptures that people may not have looked at before. So you would see that what we have looked at is - the Conditions & the Consequences of the rapture. The escapism thought, to me is not valid as God could just as easily protect the believers (like Israel) through the trib. So there has to be a very valid reason for WHY the Body of Christ is `caught away,` at a certain time.

When we can establish that, then I would like to do a thread on the WHEN the Body is `caught away.`

Hope you will join us there, too.

God bless, sis, Marilyn.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Sis...

   I would love to,if for some reason I do not see it do give me a heads up & I will come join you.....As I am not a "pre-tribber" (used to be though)I do not see "escapism" as the answer.I too believe that our Heavenly Father needn't "remove us" to protect us ,certainly not as "the only way"-lol   I do think He has a much Higher Purpose for the Body of Christ in mind that is the Reason "WHY"......I'm interested to see where you will go from here?       With love-in Christ,Kwik

   Thank you Sis for the Blessing that you ARE!!!! Praise Jesus!