what is the biblically correct response to a specific crime by spouse

[missmuffet]

 

Your reply did not show up.

Edited August 22, 2015 by bopeep1909

[ayin jade]

I was having issues with autofill in a post bo. I was trying to find a way to eliminate it.

[thereselittleflower]

A person looking at child porn is 10000 worse issue than regular porn. This being not just a sin but a crime, I don't think the marriage would be salvageable even with repentance , therapy and legal consequences. Personally, if my spouse was guilty of this act it would definitely mean divorce.  If it was regular porn, I think divorce would be justifiable Biblically but perhaps the marriage could be salvaged through repentance and counseling. In both cases, I'd be going and seeking guidance from my Pastor,  but I take that this would not be a common response.

God's arm is never too short to save or redeem.

To say a marriage is irredeemable is to deny God's power my friend.

If we want God's forgiveness, we must also forgive or we will not be forgiven.

Nothing is impossible with God.

 

With man it is impossible.  With God ALL things are possible.

In the case of repeated infidelity or an unbeliever leaves the marriage then divorce is acceptable.I know that the RCC does not believe in divorce for any circumstances.I know because I had a SIL who was Catholic.And I did attend mass with her.

 

Bopeep, you do not understand the concept of divorce in the Catholic Church.  A marriage which is joined by God cannot be ended and those involved cannot remarry.   Not all marriages are joined by God.  

 

I am curious though - what did you think of the Mass you attended with your friend?

 

 

Edited August 22, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[thereselittleflower]

I was having issues with autofill in a post bo. I was trying to find a way to eliminate it.

The only way I have found is to remove everything and post it that way and begin again.

[missmuffet]

I was having issues with autofill in a post bo. I was trying to find a way to eliminate it.

The only way I have found is to remove everything and post it that way and begin again.

It was jade's response that did not show up.

[missmuffet]

A person looking at child porn is 10000 worse issue than regular porn. This being not just a sin but a crime, I don't think the marriage would be salvageable even with repentance , therapy and legal consequences. Personally, if my spouse was guilty of this act it would definitely mean divorce.  If it was regular porn, I think divorce would be justifiable Biblically but perhaps the marriage could be salvaged through repentance and counseling. In both cases, I'd be going and seeking guidance from my Pastor,  but I take that this would not be a common response.

God's arm is never too short to save or redeem.

To say a marriage is irredeemable is to deny God's power my friend.

If we want God's forgiveness, we must also forgive or we will not be forgiven.

Nothing is impossible with God.

 

With man it is impossible.  With God ALL things are possible.

In the case of repeated infidelity or an unbeliever leaves the marriage then divorce is acceptable.I know that the RCC does not believe in divorce for any circumstances.I know because I had a SIL who was Catholic.And I did attend mass with her.

 

Bopeep, you do not understand the concept of divorce in the Catholic Church.  A marriage which is joined by God cannot be ended and those involved cannot remarry.   Not all marriages are joined by God.  

 

I am curious though - what did you think of the Mass you attended with your friend?

 

 

I have been to several.They were complicated and filled with rituals.I have also attended a couple of Catechism classes with friends when I was young.That is why I was curious about the RCC and what they believed and why.So I have done some research.

Edited August 22, 2015 by bopeep1909

[Guest shiloh357]

But all one has to do to be guilty of adultery in your heart is look upon a woman to lust.  Jesus didn't say you chose to seek her out to lust after her.  David didn't set out to commit adultery with Bathsheba.  He saw her and lust came into his heart.  Had he stopped there, he would have been much better off and less guilty than calling her over and sleeping with her.  Lust in itself is wrong, but I don't see it as the same as the actual sex act. 

Lusting after a woman amounts to entertaining sin in your heart.   I notice great looking women all of the time.  But I also look away and ask the Lord to guard my heart.   It's not a sin to notice an attractive member of the opposite sex.   God hard wired us to notice.   It would be weird if you didn't notice.    It's what comes after that.   You can't help the first look; you CAN help the second look. 

Even if you don't seek it out, sin will find you and temptation will ensue and just like David didn't seek out Bathsheba, but David could have looked away.  He could covered his eyes and went inside the second he saw her.   Regardless if you seek it out or not, it's what you do with sin that makes the difference.

Lust is a sexual act in the heart.  It is an imagining of what you want to do with that person and that is where sin begins.   Jesus did equate lust with the physical act of adultery when he said that if you lust after a woman who is not your wife, adultery has already occurred in your heart.  From God's perspective, that's just as bad as the physical act. 

I agree that it is sin in the sight of God.  I just disagree with those who claim it is grounds for divorce.  Even in states where you must show cause to get a divorce, you have to prove adultery actually took place.  Simply having desired to commit adultery isn't grounds in a court of law.  In the law of Moses, you didn't stone a person to death for desiring to commit adultery.  They had to commit the act, and there had to be witnesses.  I am not disagreeing with you about the sinfulness of pornography or lust. 

I never said it was grounds for divorce.  

I said we should be more concerned with the eternal state of the spouse rather than the legal crimes they commit.

 

That means loving our spouse as Christ loves us.

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with that at all.  I just don't believe that viewing pornography is grounds for divorce.  I don't agree that it falls under the category of fornication, regardless of the similarity of the word porneio to pornography.  The word used to describe sorcery is also similar to the word we use for pharmacy, but I don't see all medicine as sorcery. 

The difference being that the word for pharmacy is not the same word we use for witchcraft or sorcery.     Porneo refers to sexual immorality.  Pornography is sexual immorality because it is used to gain sexual gratification outside of marriage.

Women who discover their husband's sexual escapades online are just as devastated in many cases, as if he had actually  committed adultery with another woman.  It communicates the same message to her, regardless.  It tells her she is not good enough and that he needs to have his sexual needs met elsewhere.

The word translated sorceries is pharmakeia, and it means medication, pharmacy, magic, sorcery, witchcraft.  It is the same word we get pharmacy from, just as the word we get pornography from is the word translated to fornication.  I don't doubt women are hurt when they find out their husbands look at porn.  They are also hurt when their husbands are physically abusive, which is far worse to me, but that is not grounds for divorce.  Just because you get hurt by a transgression done against you doesn't mean you have Biblical grounds for divorce.  Few people would remain married if they got divorced after being hurt. 

It's not  matter of being hurt; it's a matter of breaking the marriage covenant.   Pornography violates the marriage covenant.  It is not merely an emotional hurt, but a complete invalidation of the marriage at that point.  Divorce is permissible if you have violated/broken the marriage covenant.   The problem is that so many people look at pornography that if we went by the biblical stipulations, there would be a flood divorces in the Church.   Porn sites make up about 20% of the Internet, but they get something like 80% of the Internet traffic.  So while there is a lot of online adultery taking place, we don't really enforce biblical values due to the immense numbers of Christians falling for that stuff.

Again the difference is that pharmekia doesn't necessarily have the negative connotation today that pornea does. We use pharmekia to refer to the healing sciences today.   Pornea only has ONE meaning; fornication and it is no coincidence that "pornography" comes from that word.  

[Guest shiloh357]

A person looking at child porn is 10000 worse issue than regular porn. This being not just a sin but a crime, I don't think the marriage would be salvageable even with repentance , therapy and legal consequences. Personally, if my spouse was guilty of this act it would definitely mean divorce.  If it was regular porn, I think divorce would be justifiable Biblically but perhaps the marriage could be salvaged through repentance and counseling. In both cases, I'd be going and seeking guidance from my Pastor,  but I take that this would not be a common response.

God's arm is never too short to save or redeem.

To say a marriage is irredeemable is to deny God's power my friend.

If we want God's forgiveness, we must also forgive or we will not be forgiven.

Nothing is impossible with God.

 

With man it is impossible.  With God ALL things are possible.

Forgiveness is one thing; trust is another.   You can forgive, but that doesn't mean that you can ever trust that person again.   Forgiveness is not a reset button that puts everything back the way it is.   All forgiveness does is leave justice in God's hands.    No one needs to suffer in a marriage with a spouse who cannot be trusted who will continue violate the marriage covenant. 

[missmuffet]

A person looking at child porn is 10000 worse issue than regular porn. This being not just a sin but a crime, I don't think the marriage would be salvageable even with repentance , therapy and legal consequences. Personally, if my spouse was guilty of this act it would definitely mean divorce.  If it was regular porn, I think divorce would be justifiable Biblically but perhaps the marriage could be salvaged through repentance and counseling. In both cases, I'd be going and seeking guidance from my Pastor,  but I take that this would not be a common response.

God's arm is never too short to save or redeem.

To say a marriage is irredeemable is to deny God's power my friend.

If we want God's forgiveness, we must also forgive or we will not be forgiven.

Nothing is impossible with God.

 

With man it is impossible.  With God ALL things are possible.

Forgiveness is one thing; trust is another.   You can forgive, but that doesn't mean that you can ever trust that person again.   Forgiveness is not a reset button that puts everything back the way it is.   All forgiveness does is leave justice in God's hands.    No one needs to suffer in a marriage with a spouse who cannot be trusted who will continue violate the marriage covenant. 

It is difficult to get past the trust issue at times but it has been done.If the person is going to get counseling and wants to repent and save the marriage I think some grace needs to be handed to that person.I am sure glad God does operate that way.

[thereselittleflower]

A person looking at child porn is 10000 worse issue than regular porn. This being not just a sin but a crime, I don't think the marriage would be salvageable even with repentance , therapy and legal consequences. Personally, if my spouse was guilty of this act it would definitely mean divorce.  If it was regular porn, I think divorce would be justifiable Biblically but perhaps the marriage could be salvaged through repentance and counseling. In both cases, I'd be going and seeking guidance from my Pastor,  but I take that this would not be a common response.

God's arm is never too short to save or redeem.

To say a marriage is irredeemable is to deny God's power my friend.

If we want God's forgiveness, we must also forgive or we will not be forgiven.

Nothing is impossible with God.

 

With man it is impossible.  With God ALL things are possible.

Forgiveness is one thing; trust is another.   You can forgive, but that doesn't mean that you can ever trust that person again.   Forgiveness is not a reset button that puts everything back the way it is.   All forgiveness does is leave justice in God's hands.    No one needs to suffer in a marriage with a spouse who cannot be trusted who will continue violate the marriage covenant. 

I agree.  But even in issues of trust, what isn't possible with man is possible with God.