Do we really understand the person of the Holy Spirit?

[*Zion*]

Hi, I thought I would clarify my response to what OtherOne has stated, in my personal contemplation.  For instance, I always thought of trinity, as equal.  We have God the Father, who exalts His Word above His Name, the Word being Jesus: 

Psalm 138:2New King James Version (NKJV)

2 I will worship toward Your holy temple,
And praise Your name
For Your lovingkindness and Your truth;
For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.

Jesus who submits Himself to the Father, and has the authority to baptize us with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Matthew 3:11 (John the Baptist speaking) 

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.[a]

 

The Holy Spirit being the breath of God, and against whom blasphemy will not be forgiven, as OtherOne has already stated.  And God the Father says that it is not by power, nor by might, although He has plenty of both, but by His Holy Spirit.  As one God I picture them together at the All Consuming Fire.  Unapproachable unless He wills it, as He did unto Moses.  I see them all submitting to one another in beautiful preference and harmony, showing us what relationship truly is.

I worship the Holy Spirit, for I believe He is as much God as is the Father and Son.  I pray to Him and ask Him for help, courage and strength, and words to say when I need them; and to fill me to overflowing with Himself, and I do not believe He is simply a force, although He certainly has a lot of force and power, but instead chooses to be gentle with us.

However, having said all this, we each come to God in different ways, and out of different needs, so our perspectives our going to be different.  Some are desperate for healing, others provision, also protection, strengthening, intervention.  We are going to have different experiences of how He reveals Himself to each of us, but that's the wonderful part.  And none of us have the monopoly on knowledge, except for the Lord Himself.

I think it is a grave error for one to assume that they are speaking on behalf of God and are therefore infallible, be it in just the message they are sharing at one time, or in all they say.  God confirms His Word to us, we cannot claim it as our own, for none of us have complete revelation.

I also think that people who think they have 'special' or 'secret' knowledge or revelation from the Holy Spirit are such a danger to themselves and others.  He wants us all to keep His Word, in accordance with the measure of the desire of our hearts to have it.  Yes, God grants us wisdom for every day life, and also for specific situations too, but we haven't even touched the tip of the ice berg when it comes to true knowledge, I know that much at least.  Somethings we should keep secret, if they are just between us and God.  So why bother sharing it?  Then we are even walking in disobedience.  

In closing, I would like to stress OtherOne's warning against blaspheming the Holy Spirit.  We don't want to grieve Him in any way at all.  That also means that we cannot expect to use Him as a genie, or a horoscope, as some feel they can (prosperity 'gospel', once-saved-always-saved deception).  

Blessings to all, please feel free to continue to share guys.  And thanks again OtherOne for blessing me with your post, brother.

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

Hi, I thought I would clarify my response to what OtherOne has stated, in my personal contemplation.  For instance, I always thought of trinity, as equal.  We have God the Father, who exalts His Word above His Name, the Word being Jesus: 

Psalm 138:2New King James Version (NKJV)

2 I will worship toward Your holy temple,
And praise Your name
For Your lovingkindness and Your truth;
For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.

Jesus who submits Himself to the Father, and has the authority to baptize us with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Matthew 3:11 (John the Baptist speaking) 

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.[a]

 

The Holy Spirit being the breath of God, and against whom blasphemy will not be forgiven, as OtherOne has already stated.  And God the Father says that it is not by power, nor by might, although He has plenty of both, but by His Holy Spirit.  As one God I picture them together at the All Consuming Fire.  Unapproachable unless He wills it, as He did unto Moses.  I see them all submitting to one another in beautiful preference and harmony, showing us what relationship truly is.

I worship the Holy Spirit, for I believe He is as much God as is the Father and Son.  I pray to Him and ask Him for help, courage and strength, and words to say when I need them; and to fill me to overflowing with Himself, and I do not believe He is simply a force, although He certainly has a lot of force and power, but instead chooses to be gentle with us.

However, having said all this, we each come to God in different ways, and out of different needs, so our perspectives our going to be different.  Some are desperate for healing, others provision, also protection, strengthening, intervention.  We are going to have different experiences of how He reveals Himself to each of us, but that's the wonderful part.  And none of us have the monopoly on knowledge, except for the Lord Himself.

I think it is a grave error for one to assume that they are speaking on behalf of God and are therefore infallible, be it in just the message they are sharing at one time, or in all they say.  God confirms His Word to us, we cannot claim it as our own, for none of us have complete revelation.

I also think that people who think they have 'special' or 'secret' knowledge or revelation from the Holy Spirit are such a danger to themselves and others.  He wants us all to keep His Word, in accordance with the measure of the desire of our hearts to have it.  Yes, God grants us wisdom for every day life, and also for specific situations too, but we haven't even touched the tip of the ice berg when it comes to true knowledge, I know that much at least.  Somethings we should keep secret, if they are just between us and God.  So why bother sharing it?  Then we are even walking in disobedience.  

In closing, I would like to stress OtherOne's warning against blaspheming the Holy Spirit.  We don't want to grieve Him in any way at all.  That also means that we cannot expect to use Him as a genie, or a horoscope, as some feel they can (prosperity 'gospel', once-saved-always-saved deception).  

Blessings to all, please feel free to continue to share guys.  And thanks again OtherOne for blessing me with your post, brother.

 

 

I heave read your post it has stimulated my thinking, there are a lot of issues that you have touch, I have been bless with some of the insights in your post, but there some things I see them deferent than you or others. I am wondering why Jesus does not sent his own spirit to be with us, he has a spirit, but why?

why Paul said to the Corinthias the Spirit is the Lord?

Why Jesus said you must ask me to give you the Holy Spirit?

Do you know of any of the disciples who call the Holly Spirit "GOD"?, some one ask me this question and I don't know how to answer.

Do I blaspheming the Holy Spirit, or greive the holy spirit, by asking questions? 

Hope I am not judging. 

I respect the scriptures, hope I can find the answers, in the scriptures. 

I am afraid of something,  that the Gods might be angry at me, and or be grieve. 

May Jesus bless you, who is love above all, you may just ignore my questions, but you look a kind and loving sister that is approachable.

May Jesus bless you with gifts of the Holy Spirit to assist you of been help and a blessing to his children.

With love your brother in the faith of Jesus Christ.

[thereselittleflower]

Thank you brother.  There are some things that you have pointed out that I haven't considered in the way you present them.  Some things for me to think about.  Indeed, we have all of eternity to search Him out and learn of Him.  

(Ready and standing by with my raspberry blower...)

Also, in looking at what Jesus said about the blasphemy of the holy spirit, look at the context.  The Jewish leaders had just accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit.   Jesus then warns them against persisting in this as it could lead to this sin.

When one accuses the work of the Holy Spirit as being from satan, then one puts their feet on a path, which, if they transverse it to its end, they will find this sin waiting for them.  If they then cross over that line, they will never be able to return.

 

 

 

[*Zion*]

That is why we should refrain from judging one another, as vessels of God.  We are to encourage and edify one another in God, not get pedantic and wrestle with mere semantics.  We need God's love and revelation in our lives, and He chooses to work through us to His glory.

[Your closest friendnt]

Thank you brother.  There are some things that you have pointed out that I haven't considered in the way you present them.  Some things for me to think about.  Indeed, we have all of eternity to search Him out and learn of Him.  

(Ready and standing by with my raspberry blower...)

Also, in looking at what Jesus said about the blasphemy of the holy spirit, look at the context.  The Jewish leaders had just accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit.   Jesus then warns them against persisting in this as it could lead to this sin.

When one accuses the work of the Holy Spirit as being from satan, then one puts their feet on a path, which, if they transverse it to its end, they will find this sin waiting for them.  If they then cross over that line, they will never be able to return.

 

I am trying to see the point you have made in its contex, that was the time before Jesus Glorification, and definitely he was not taulking to the children of the Cross. But what kind of massage Jesus was implying with that statement? 

Lets say that they were also Jews in the crowd, who believe in him been the Christ, and they have been under the teachings of Jonh the Baptis, then they must have heard Jonh saying that he will baptize you with the holy spirit, or that Jesus  Christ will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.   Don't you find that strange? Why Jonh did not say Baptize me and they others to Jesus. Why the Holy Spirit was not for them? And the more after he witness the heavens open (the later rain), and The Father giving him the spirit. Why Jonh he did not say, don't go away , I know you have the holy spirit "givit to me, or baptize me".

Don't you wondering why?

 

[Your closest friendnt]

I understan that Paul was instructing believers who had the fellowship of the holy spirit, that when the will of the Holy Spirit was made known to them to obey, if not ( depending upon the importance of guidance), they may risk to grieve the holy spirit,      How would someone knows that the spirit is grieve? 

This is an exable; when asking your child to do something and it does it, that creates a joyous spirit withing you. The opposite will happen when the child understan's the instruction and disobeys, the intended result is not accomplish, and you get upset or grieved, you have suffer some kind of loosing something. Just about. 

If you have the holy spirit and have obey a direction, you will feel the joy of the spirit within you. If the opposit happen you will feel the disapproval of the spirit , creating a strong mood withing you, to make you consious that the spirit is upset and lets you know, that you have disobey by using your judgement, instant of trusting the spirit and act by faith. 

Another exable will be when the spirit ask you to say or not to say something, to get involve or not to get involve in some situation, you are going to feel the mood and how the spirit feels, and it may let you know by speaking within you. At the same time the spirit will teach you and help you to discern your own moods and intents, and feelings from the spirits, it's like you feel if some one is happy or kind upset with you, 

 

Paul when in philipi, and in jail, together with the rest felt that was there on his own doing, (as a result of getting upset with the girl). And perhaps felt a dissapointment and or disaproval of himself, kind of judging himself and felling low But then he felt the joy of the spirit within him, singing songs to him and to others and telling him "well done good and faithful servant, you have follow me" Paul felt the joy of the spirit within him and joint the spirit singing songs. The result was that's   how Paul had to meet the Macedonian MAN in his vision "the Warden of the jail", mission accomplish.  Paul never expected it will happen this way. 

 

The same with Peter his mission to Kornilius finish in a way he never saw happening this way.

Paul is taulking from experience, he had grieve the holy spirit and he new how it felt. (it may happen during the training from the spirit).

 

[thereselittleflower]

Thank you brother.  There are some things that you have pointed out that I haven't considered in the way you present them.  Some things for me to think about.  Indeed, we have all of eternity to search Him out and learn of Him.  

(Ready and standing by with my raspberry blower...)

Also, in looking at what Jesus said about the blasphemy of the holy spirit, look at the context.  The Jewish leaders had just accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit.   Jesus then warns them against persisting in this as it could lead to this sin.

When one accuses the work of the Holy Spirit as being from satan, then one puts their feet on a path, which, if they transverse it to its end, they will find this sin waiting for them.  If they then cross over that line, they will never be able to return.

 

I am trying to see the point you have made in its contex, that was the time before Jesus Glorification, and definitely he was not taulking to the children of the Cross. But what kind of massage Jesus was implying with that statement? 

Lets say that they were also Jews in the crowd, who believe in him been the Christ, and they have been under the teachings of Jonh the Baptis, then they must have heard Jonh saying that he will baptize you with the holy spirit, or that Jesus  Christ will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.   Don't you find that strange? Why Jonh did not say Baptize me and they others to Jesus. Why the Holy Spirit was not for them? And the more after he witness the heavens open (the later rain), and The Father giving him the spirit. Why Jonh he did not say, don't go away , I know you have the holy spirit "givit to me, or baptize me".

Don't you wondering why?

 

Well, I don't think he was implying anything, rather he was giving all of us a very stern warning.

They didn't believe God empowered Jesus.

They believed satan empowered Jesus.

And by claiming this was so, they called what was the power of the Holy Spirit, the power of satan.

When people do this, when they call the power of the Holy Spirit the power of satan,  they start down this path; and if they continue down this path, it can lead them to commit this unforgivable sin.

But one cannot commit this sin without knowing exactly what they are doing.

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[thereselittleflower]

 But do we understand Him enough to live the way we are supposed to in obedience to Him?  I'm afraid the answer may be a resounding NO.  But I want to learn!  Thought and encouragements, please.  

It is entirely possible that there is little or no systematic and in-depth teaching in the churches on God the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit has everything to do with the Christian's life from regeneration to ultimate perfection.

Obedience to the Holy Spirit is sanctification (walking in the Spirit), and cannot be separated from obedience to the Word of God (Heb 4:12,13). Obedience to the Holy Spirit is also the willingness to repent when we are shown the errors of our beliefs and our actions.  Unfortunately, when Christians show other Christians their sins and errors (as is required), many of those who should repent fail to do so, and instead resist the Holy Spirit, simply because He is invisible and a mere brother or sister is speaking.  You will note this from time to time on Christian forums (including this one).

Stephen was a man full of faith and full of the Holy Ghost, but when he spoke out the sins of his people, they not only resented his speech, but they killed him for speaking the truth (Acts 6:1-8:3).  So it is today in Christendom.  More often than not, you will find Christians arguing to defend themselves, rather than submitting to the judgment of the Holy Spirit.  But God does not generally render summary execution today (as in the case of Ananias and Sapphira). On the other hand, he warns every Christian thus "TODAY, IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS" (Heb 3:7-4:8).

 

I find it interesting that this is your take on the discussion topic.  I don't suppose you think that your words apply to you though, but are simply a rant about the frustration that no one is listening to your criticisms which would so vastly improve their lives. 

Maybe, what people need more on a board like this is love and not the self righteous legalism from a batch of people who feel they have graduated from basic principles of repentance and are called to serve as crossing guards on a online forum bearing daily frustrations that no one is listening to them.  Oh my!  What has the church become? 

"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins" (1 Peter 4:8).

 

and this was love?

 

Really?

 

 

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

Thank you brother.  There are some things that you have pointed out that I haven't considered in the way you present them.  Some things for me to think about.  Indeed, we have all of eternity to search Him out and learn of Him.  

(Ready and standing by with my raspberry blower...)

Also, in looking at what Jesus said about the blasphemy of the holy spirit, look at the context.  The Jewish leaders had just accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit.   Jesus then warns them against persisting in this as it could lead to this sin.

When one accuses the work of the Holy Spirit as being from satan, then one puts their feet on a path, which, if they transverse it to its end, they will find this sin waiting for them.  If they then cross over that line, they will never be able to return.

 

I am trying to see the point you have made in its contex, that was the time before Jesus Glorification, and definitely he was not taulking to the children of the Cross. But what kind of massage Jesus was implying with that statement? 

Lets say that they were also Jews in the crowd, who believe in him been the Christ, and they have been under the teachings of Jonh the Baptis, then they must have heard Jonh saying that he will baptize you with the holy spirit, or that Jesus  Christ will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.   Don't you find that strange? Why Jonh did not say Baptize me and they others to Jesus. Why the Holy Spirit was not for them? And the more after he witness the heavens open (the later rain), and The Father giving him the spirit. Why Jonh he did not say, don't go away , I know you have the holy spirit "givit to me, or baptize me".

Don't you wondering why?

 

Well, I don't think he was implying anything, rather he was giving all of us a very stern warning.

They didn't believe God empowered Jesus.

They believed satan empowered Jesus.

And by claiming this was so, they called what was the power of the Holy Spirit, the power of satan.

When people do this, when they call the power of the Holy Spirit the power of satan,  they start down this path; and if they continue down this path, it can lead them to commit this unforgivable sin.

But one cannot commit this sin without knowing exactly what they are doing.

 

I have struggle with that statement Jesus made, for a long time, at the present season of my understanding that's how I see it. There is a story that happen with Peter in the book of acts. There he met a kind of a sorserer, this man believe and follow Peter every where, wondering at the miraculous things that Peter was doing. And one day he ask Peter how much money he needs to pay to have this power too. ( that's one way they used to dealing in the occult environment), Peter got very upset and he told him, because of that he does not have any lot in the ministry of the Holy Spirit. And he said to Peter pray to the Lord for me to forgive me. 

In this exable I see that this instruction apply to believers. 

Jesus said ask me and I will give you the Holy Spirit. 

Unbelievers are unbelievers, they are call to faith all the time, no matter what, the past is gone, the new has come. The new creation. 

I am still discovering things, thank you for discussing, without prejudice.

YOU ARE BLESS 

ps I am not judging, but that' s how I see you as a blessing from the Lord.

 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

I dont know if this could be helpful showing a few things here in respects to the Holy Ghost, and blaspheming the same,

but here it goes into 

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

So it was by the Holy Ghost and power Jesus was healing all that were oppressed of the devil;

Whereas they were attributing the same works done by the Holy Ghost (even through) Jesus as him having Beelzebub

Mark 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said,
He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

They were not speaking a word against the Son of man (after the flesh as a person) but rather they were speaking words against the Spirit of Jesus Christ ( the Holy Ghost) by whom Jesus did His good works through, even casting out devils

Because they said, 

by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

Or by the Spirit (with power) they are speaking to

Then he asked them, 

How can Satan cast out Satan?

And basically,

Mark 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Every mention here is of the Spirit in Him (not of Him personally) because he does say whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man it shall be forgiven him (even as he was a sign to be spoken against, see Luke 2:34 ) but Jesus divides between speaking a word against the Son of man and the Holy Ghost.

That division can be shown in what they were saying

He (HATH) Beelzebub
and (BY) the prince of devils (ie Satan) he doeth these things 
Saying basically he (HATH) an unclean spirit

Nothing of the Son of man seemed touched in any of that but of the Holy Spirit that was in Him (he hath, and by he doeth, etc)

Perhaps that can be shown also

Blaspheme against equals words against

1. to speak reproachfully, rail at, revile, calumniate, blaspheme

2. to be evil spoken of, reviled, railed at

When you compare between them they seem consistent in the same

Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you,
All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:
but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:
but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him,
neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:
but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Mark 3:28-30 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, 
but is in danger of eternal damnation: 

The reason Jesus gave...

Because they *said*, He hath an unclean spirit. 

It was because of what they said, and shows its the manner of speaking under the definition of blaspheme (in the above)  also.

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by AFlameOfFire