Opinions Wanted--awkward prayer request

[missmuffet]

Davida, it is an amazing series. Not really any big surprises, but more confirmation on what I have long suspected. For years I felt like a second rate Christian because I had not had all those "experiences" like the hyper Charimatics. Now that I see it for what it really is, I know I have been protected over the years.

You mentioned a "word from God." I am becoming less and less enchanted with this whole concept. I do believe the Holy Spirit guides us when we pray and gives us the words when witnessing to others, but it seems like we so often run the risk of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit or abuse of the gifts. It's a very fine line. 

 

This person is very much into "experiences" and at one point tried to teach me to speak in tounges. I told her it was not one of my gifts  and if God wanted me to have it, it would not have to be taught to me. 

 

Thereselittleflower, she did NOT name the couple. She did mention that the woman's problem was rooted in a past trauma that was unresolved. That situation could and does apply to a lot of couples. It's a big church.

Shilo, I agree that God would have spoken directly to this couple. I think it's something they would seek wise council for, and not involve a group.

Gary, other one...I would not have a problem praying for this couple but it seems to me the request  have come directly from them. Also this is a private matter and really to much information to share with a big group.

 

Thanks everyone for their input. I honestly have never dealt with this before. Good to hear your thoughts.

Bo, what's so perplexing about this was the very gracious and diplomatic manner in which she presented this information. However, she is a single woman, in her mid twenties and claims to have little experience with men. I question why she would be given this "word of Knowledge,"

 

i am the new kid on the block and really don't want to rock the boat, but this seemed very inappropriate to bring up in mixed company. Or ANY company. I've been in a  women's small group 14 yrs and a prayer request this intimate and this detailed has never been  presented. 

 

 

Whenever I hear 'Word of Knowledge' I automatically recoil.  I believe that most of the people who claim to have received a word from God are fakes and the ones who aren't are delusional.  You are right to question this woman's 'gift' and the offer to teach you to speak in tongues is totally bogus.  That kind of thing comes only from God.  You're on the right path here, Sugarbaker.  Keep questioning and don't trust anyone or anything that seems unscriptural to you.  Welcome to Worthy, btw. 

Yes,always question when it comes to listening to man about God's true and literal word.

[thereselittleflower]

Davida, it is an amazing series. Not really any big surprises, but more confirmation on what I have long suspected. For years I felt like a second rate Christian because I had not had all those "experiences" like the hyper Charimatics. Now that I see it for what it really is, I know I have been protected over the years.

You mentioned a "word from God." I am becoming less and less enchanted with this whole concept. I do believe the Holy Spirit guides us when we pray and gives us the words when witnessing to others, but it seems like we so often run the risk of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit or abuse of the gifts. It's a very fine line. 

 

This person is very much into "experiences" and at one point tried to teach me to speak in tounges. I told her it was not one of my gifts  and if God wanted me to have it, it would not have to be taught to me. 

 

Thereselittleflower, she did NOT name the couple. She did mention that the woman's problem was rooted in a past trauma that was unresolved. That situation could and does apply to a lot of couples. It's a big church.

Shilo, I agree that God would have spoken directly to this couple. I think it's something they would seek wise council for, and not involve a group.

Gary, other one...I would not have a problem praying for this couple but it seems to me the request  have come directly from them. Also this is a private matter and really to much information to share with a big group.

 

Thanks everyone for their input. I honestly have never dealt with this before. Good to hear your thoughts.

Bo, what's so perplexing about this was the very gracious and diplomatic manner in which she presented this information. However, she is a single woman, in her mid twenties and claims to have little experience with men. I question why she would be given this "word of Knowledge,"

 

i am the new kid on the block and really don't want to rock the boat, but this seemed very inappropriate to bring up in mixed company. Or ANY company. I've been in a  women's small group 14 yrs and a prayer request this intimate and this detailed has never been  presented. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You may be interested in something I came across as I delved way back into christian writings 500 years ago.   As a protestant I found much wisdom in his words.

John of the Cross had some very pointed words about this very issue - i'll try to find it.

"And I greatly fear what is happening in these times of ours: If any soul whatever after a bit of meditation has in its recollection one of these locutions, it will immediately baptize all as coming from God and with such a supposition say, 'God told me,' 'God answered me.'  Yet this is not so, but, as we pointed out, these persons themselves are more often the origin of their locution."  (St. John of the Cross: The Ascent of Mount Carmel. Book II Ch. 29) 

 

"Through the desire of accepting them one opens the door to the devil.  The devil can then deceive one by other communications expertly feigned and disguised as genuine.  In the words of the Apostle, he can transform himself into an 'angel of light' (II Cor. XI:14). (...)  Regardless of the cause of these apprehensions, it is always good for a man to reject them with closed eyes.  If he fails to do so, he will make room for those having a diabolical origin and empower the devil to impose his communications.  Not only this, but the diabolical representations will multiply while those from God will gradually cease, so that eventually all will come from the devil and none at all from God.  This has occurred with many incautious and uninstructed people."  (St. John of the Cross: The Ascent of Mount Carmel. Book II Ch. 11) 

 

..either God truly bestows them as He did to the wicked prophet Balaam and to Solomon, or they are effected falsely by means of the devil, as is the case of Simon Magus., or by means of other secret natural powers.

A man should rejoice, then, not in the possession and exercise of these graces, but in procurement of the second benefit: serving God by them with true charity, for in charity lies the fruit of eternal life. ....it should be understood that a man ought only rejoice in treading the path that leads to life, in doing works with charity. (Ascent of Mt Carmel, Book III, ch 30)

It seems to me that three chief kinds of harm follow from rejoicing insupernatural goods: active and passive deception; detriment to the soul's faith; and  vainglory or some vanity.

As for the first it is very easy to deceive oneself and others by rejoicing in these accomplishments. The reason is that discernment of the true ones from the false and knowledge of how and at what time they may be exercised demands much counsel and light from God, both of which are exceedingly hindered by esteeming and rejoicing in these works.

There are two reasons for this: first, because joy blunts and darkens the judgment; second, due to his joy in the work, a man is not merely desirous of believing in it more quickly, but even impelled toward performing the work outside the proper time.

..Through these passes we learn that the harm engendered by this joy comes not only from the wicked and perverse use of God's graces ... but even from performing them without God's grace, as in those who prophesied their fancies and spoke of visions manufactured by either themselves or the devil. When the devil observes their attachment to these wonders, he opens a wide field and provides ample material for their endeavors and meddles extensively. And these individuals with such means spread wide their sails, become shamelessly audacious, and abound in prodigious works.

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[Ezra]

i was very uncomfortable with this, I do not believe the Holy Spirit prompts us to pray for the sex lives of others. I was surprised that no one else seemed bothered by this--and perhaps there were others who felt as I did, but I certainly didn't go around asking.  I don't think it would do any good to discuss this with the leaders,

they are quite in awe of this woman,

as was  I until today. What are your thoughts?

The problem began with being in awe of this woman. Women are forbidden to provide spiritual leadership within the churches, and this is a good illustration of why.  To address your question, it is totally inappropriate for Christians to meddle with or pry into matters which must be left private.  If a Christian seeks counseling and the counselor understands the meaning of strict confidentiality, then that's another issue altogether and it is strictly between counselor and counselee.

[thereselittleflower]

i was very uncomfortable with this, I do not believe the Holy Spirit prompts us to pray for the sex lives of others. I was surprised that no one else seemed bothered by this--and perhaps there were others who felt as I did, but I certainly didn't go around asking.  I don't think it would do any good to discuss this with the leaders,

they are quite in awe of this woman,

as was  I until today. What are your thoughts?

The problem began with being in awe of this woman. Women are forbidden to provide spiritual leadership within the churches, and this is a good illustration of why.  To address your question, it is totally inappropriate for Christians to meddle with or pry into matters which must be left private.  If a Christian seeks counseling and the counselor understands the meaning of strict confidentiality, then that's another issue altogether and it is strictly between counselor and counselee.

So women are forbidden to operate in the gifts of the spirit?   Is that what scripture says?

Act 2:17

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

 

 

[MorningGlory]

i was very uncomfortable with this, I do not believe the Holy Spirit prompts us to pray for the sex lives of others. I was surprised that no one else seemed bothered by this--and perhaps there were others who felt as I did, but I certainly didn't go around asking.  I don't think it would do any good to discuss this with the leaders,

they are quite in awe of this woman,

as was  I until today. What are your thoughts?

The problem began with being in awe of this woman. Women are forbidden to provide spiritual leadership within the churches, and this is a good illustration of why.  To address your question, it is totally inappropriate for Christians to meddle with or pry into matters which must be left private.  If a Christian seeks counseling and the counselor understands the meaning of strict confidentiality, then that's another issue altogether and it is strictly between counselor and counselee.

Really?  Do you seriously think this woman said these inappropriate things because she's a woman?  Or could it be because she's a moron?  Sorry, those come in both genders.

[missmuffet]

i was very uncomfortable with this, I do not believe the Holy Spirit prompts us to pray for the sex lives of others. I was surprised that no one else seemed bothered by this--and perhaps there were others who felt as I did, but I certainly didn't go around asking.  I don't think it would do any good to discuss this with the leaders,

they are quite in awe of this woman,

as was  I until today. What are your thoughts?

The problem began with being in awe of this woman. Women are forbidden to provide spiritual leadership within the churches, and this is a good illustration of why.  To address your question, it is totally inappropriate for Christians to meddle with or pry into matters which must be left private.  If a Christian seeks counseling and the counselor understands the meaning of strict confidentiality, then that's another issue altogether and it is strictly between counselor and counselee.

Really?  Do you seriously think this woman said these inappropriate things because she's a woman?  Or could it be because she's a moron?  Sorry, those come in both genders.

I really don't think they are being sexist and saying the issue is because of her being a woman.I do not know why a person should be in awe of another human being.God yes not humans.

[Ezra]

So women are forbidden to operate in the gifts of the spirit?   Is that what scripture says?

No.  What I said is that (a) women are forbidden from being busybodies, (b) women are forbidden from providing spiritual leadership within the local assembly, and (c) women are forbidden to speak in the churches.  I could provide chapter and verse but I don't believe that is necessary, since we have had recent discussions on this. Clearly this woman was trying to exercise spiritual leadership, and it is evident that what she was suggesting was totally inappropriate. And those who claim to have "the word of knowledge" forget that the supernatural gift of "knowledge" would pass away with the completion of Scripture (1 Cor 13:8-10).  While the New Testament was still being completed, this gift was necessary. 

[thereselittleflower]

 

So women are forbidden to operate in the gifts of the spirit?   Is that what scripture says?

No.  What I said is that (a) women are forbidden from being busybodies, (b) women are forbidden from providing spiritual leadership within the local assembly, and (c) women are forbidden to speak in the churches.  I could provide chapter and verse but I don't believe that is necessary, since we have had recent discussions on this. Clearly this woman was trying to exercise spiritual leadership, and it is evident that what she was suggesting was totally inappropriate. And those who claim to have "the word of knowledge" forget that the supernatural gift of "knowledge" would pass away with the completion of Scripture (1 Cor 13:8-10).  While the New Testament was still being completed, this gift was necessary. 

How is giving a word of knowledge being either?

 

[Ezra]

So women are forbidden to operate in the gifts of the spirit?   Is that what scripture says?

No.  What I said is that (a) women are forbidden from being busybodies, (b) women are forbidden from providing spiritual leadership within the local assembly, and (c) women are forbidden to speak in the churches.  I could provide chapter and verse but I don't believe that is necessary, since we have had recent discussions on this. Clearly this woman was trying to exercise spiritual leadership, and it is evident that what she was suggesting was totally inappropriate. And those who claim to have "the word of knowledge" forget that the supernatural gift of "knowledge" would pass away with the completion of Scripture (1 Cor 13:8-10).  While the New Testament was still being completed, this gift was necessary. 

How is giving a word of knowledge being either?

Because it was a phony "word of knowledge" its content was unacceptable. 

[thereselittleflower]

So women are forbidden to operate in the gifts of the spirit?   Is that what scripture says?

No.  What I said is that (a) women are forbidden from being busybodies, (b) women are forbidden from providing spiritual leadership within the local assembly, and (c) women are forbidden to speak in the churches.  I could provide chapter and verse but I don't believe that is necessary, since we have had recent discussions on this. Clearly this woman was trying to exercise spiritual leadership, and it is evident that what she was suggesting was totally inappropriate. And those who claim to have "the word of knowledge" forget that the supernatural gift of "knowledge" would pass away with the completion of Scripture (1 Cor 13:8-10).  While the New Testament was still being completed, this gift was necessary. 

How is giving a word of knowledge being either?

Because it was a phony "word of knowledge" its content was unacceptable. 

So if it's coming from a woman it's automatically phony?