Pope vs. Gunowners

[thereselittleflower]

 

Shiloh357 "Peace is not achieved except through war. "

It may be useful to cite scripture to confirm this.

That's a fact of life.   Countries with strong militaries typically don't get invaded, militarily.  I don't need Scripture to make that point.

So might makes right ?

 

Might enforces peace.   The way you make peace with an enemy is to be stronger than him.   If the US is at war, ideally, our response should be to respond with sufficient ferocity as to make the enemy despair  of further conflict.   We make the price for war higher than the enemy wants to pay.  When the enemy surrenders and is willing to abide the terms of their surrender and no longer attempts to make war with us, then peace is established and our continued strength means that peace will also be enforced.

How are we ( as followers of Christ ) to make the enemy " despair " ? What conquers all according to our LORD and savior ? If the US ( or any other country ) is following God righteously, then amen. Still, the question stands. You know, and I know that it was LOVE and obedience that conquered death. 

I am talking about how our nation/government is to treat an enemy nation.   It goes to the just war-theory.   The government is the only entity with the divine commission to protect its citizens.  

Would you argue that Christians should not join the military?  Is it a sin for a Christian to be a soldier, sailor, etc.?

In the very first centuries, from the 1st onward, christians refused to be soldiers.  They would have nothing to do with killing for any reason.   Soldiers who became christians would put down their swords and refuse to fight.  They were martyred.    

 

 

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Shiloh357 "Peace is not achieved except through war. "

It may be useful to cite scripture to confirm this.

That's a fact of life.   Countries with strong militaries typically don't get invaded, militarily.  I don't need Scripture to make that point.

So might makes right ?

 

Might enforces peace.   The way you make peace with an enemy is to be stronger than him.   If the US is at war, ideally, our response should be to respond with sufficient ferocity as to make the enemy despair  of further conflict.   We make the price for war higher than the enemy wants to pay.  When the enemy surrenders and is willing to abide the terms of their surrender and no longer attempts to make war with us, then peace is established and our continued strength means that peace will also be enforced.

How are we ( as followers of Christ ) to make the enemy " despair " ? What conquers all according to our LORD and savior ? If the US ( or any other country ) is following God righteously, then amen. Still, the question stands. You know, and I know that it was LOVE and obedience that conquered death. 

I am talking about how our nation/government is to treat an enemy nation.   It goes to the just war-theory.   The government is the only entity with the divine commission to protect its citizens.  

Would you argue that Christians should not join the military?  Is it a sin for a Christian to be a soldier, sailor, etc.?

In the very first centuries, from the 1st onward, christians refused to be soldiers.  They would have nothing to do with killing for any reason.   Soldiers who became christians would put down their swords and refuse to fight.  They were martyred.    

 

 

 

 

And so are you saying that we should have never fought the Revolution?    Should we have just allowed Hitler to rampage across Europe and eventually take over the United States??   Is the United States a huge mistake, a country that should never have existed?

[thereselittleflower]

 

Shiloh357 "Peace is not achieved except through war. "

It may be useful to cite scripture to confirm this.

That's a fact of life.   Countries with strong militaries typically don't get invaded, militarily.  I don't need Scripture to make that point.

So might makes right ?

 

Might enforces peace.   The way you make peace with an enemy is to be stronger than him.   If the US is at war, ideally, our response should be to respond with sufficient ferocity as to make the enemy despair  of further conflict.   We make the price for war higher than the enemy wants to pay.  When the enemy surrenders and is willing to abide the terms of their surrender and no longer attempts to make war with us, then peace is established and our continued strength means that peace will also be enforced.

How are we ( as followers of Christ ) to make the enemy " despair " ? What conquers all according to our LORD and savior ? If the US ( or any other country ) is following God righteously, then amen. Still, the question stands. You know, and I know that it was LOVE and obedience that conquered death. 

I am talking about how our nation/government is to treat an enemy nation.   It goes to the just war-theory.   The government is the only entity with the divine commission to protect its citizens.  

Would you argue that Christians should not join the military?  Is it a sin for a Christian to be a soldier, sailor, etc.?

In the very first centuries, from the 1st onward, christians refused to be soldiers.  They would have nothing to do with killing for any reason.   Soldiers who became christians would put down their swords and refuse to fight.  They were martyred.    

 

 

 

 

And so are you saying that we should have never fought the Revolution?    Should we have just allowed Hitler to rampage across Europe and eventually take over the United States??   Is the United States a huge mistake, a country that should never have existed?

I didn't say anything shiloh other than recount a historical fact.

 

 

[hmbld]

 

In the very first centuries, from the 1st onward, christians refused to be soldiers.  They would have nothing to do with killing for any reason.   Soldiers who became christians would put down their swords and refuse to fight.  They were martyred.    

 

 

 

 

Can you reconcile this with Shiloh's claim stating the pope's basement is stocked with weapons of murder?  I have no knowledge if this is true, only nobody has disputed it. If christians should have nothing to do with killing, yet the religious leader of so many people has weapons, then we need some clarification.  

[Guest shiloh357]

" In the very first centuries, from the 1st onward, christians refused to be soldiers. They would have nothing to do with killing for any reason. Soldiers who became christians would put down their swords and refuse to fight. They were martyred. "



"Can you reconcile this with Shiloh's claim stating the pope's basement is stocked with weapons of murder? I have no knowledge if this is true, only nobody has disputed it. If christians should have nothing to do with killing, yet the religious leader of so many people has weapons, then we need some clarification. "

Why do they need reconciled ? They're not contradictory statements at all -- it's been true all through history, not just in the first centuries....

Jeff,

He is pointing to the Pope's hypocrisy and the idea that Christians should not be soldiers, while at the same time noting that the Pope is defended by well armed and well trained soldiers.  They will kill in the name of the Pope if necessary.   The same Pope who questions the Christianity of the very ones who make the guns that will be used to defend his very life.

[hmbld]

" In the very first centuries, from the 1st onward, christians refused to be soldiers. They would have nothing to do with killing for any reason. Soldiers who became christians would put down their swords and refuse to fight. They were martyred. "



"Can you reconcile this with Shiloh's claim stating the pope's basement is stocked with weapons of murder? I have no knowledge if this is true, only nobody has disputed it. If christians should have nothing to do with killing, yet the religious leader of so many people has weapons, then we need some clarification. "

Why do they need reconciled ? They're not contradictory statements at all -- it's been true all through history, not just in the first centuries....

In addition to what Shiloh just said, you are claiming all through the centuries christians refused to be soldiers?  This infers all christians?  The statement sounds as if all christians refused to be soldiers, I would agree that some christians have refused to be soldiers, yet many soldiers are Christians.  Just struck me as being judgmental of who can be a Christian, maybe I read too much into this . . . 

[thereselittleflower]

" In the very first centuries, from the 1st onward, christians refused to be soldiers. They would have nothing to do with killing for any reason. Soldiers who became christians would put down their swords and refuse to fight. They were martyred. "



"Can you reconcile this with Shiloh's claim stating the pope's basement is stocked with weapons of murder? I have no knowledge if this is true, only nobody has disputed it. If christians should have nothing to do with killing, yet the religious leader of so many people has weapons, then we need some clarification. "

Why do they need reconciled ? They're not contradictory statements at all -- it's been true all through history, not just in the first centuries....

In addition to what Shiloh just said, you are claiming all through the centuries christians refused to be soldiers?  This infers all christians?  The statement sounds as if all christians refused to be soldiers, I would agree that some christians have refused to be soldiers, yet many soldiers are Christians.  Just struck me as being judgmental of who can be a Christian, maybe I read too much into this . . . 

No, the context was the first few centuries, starting with the 1st.  I said nothing about later centuries.

[Guest shiloh357]

it may take 3 years or so to accomplish Yahweh's Purpose and Plan concerning this, so be prepared to wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait,
all the while trusting Yahweh seeking and keep seeking HIM ((not details, not doctrines, not ideas; SEEK HIM, SEEK YAHWEH HIMSELF by grace and faith in YESHUA))....
all completely and utterly in union with Yeshua, in harmony with all of His Word and Life...

perhaps it may only take 3 seconds, 3 hours, 3 months ... Yahweh knows, but everything depends on Yahweh.....

for starters, see or find out about Desmond Doss. the movie is great if you can see it.
His Testimony of Yeshua is Faithful and True.

Award-Winning Documentary: The Conscientious Objector - YouTube
► 101:29
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E3reiJYFpwSep 14, 2014 - 101 min - Uploaded by Tony R
Drafted in April 1942, Desmond Doss refused to kill, or carry a weapon into combat, because of ...
 

Your point?

[hmbld]

all the while trusting Yahweh seeking and keep seeking HIM 

Amen Jeff, I will agree with this!  (yet truly I do not believe we can deceive ourselves very long into believing we are the ones seeking Him, for He calls us, and we can take no credit in this)

[JustinM]

Anti-gun people will be singing "Nearer My God To Thee" when the State comes and forcefully disarms the remaining gun owners.  This debate will not end until the State wins and we all lose.  But, keep singing that song if it makes you feel better.