Creation and an Old Earth - One Possibility

[ARGOSY]

9 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

II Peter 3:5; "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

 

II Peter 3:6; "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

 

Perished means total destruction. "The world [age] that then was" ended in total ruin through another flood that was prior to Noah's day. There were no survivors of that flood; no animals, no man, no insects, nor vegetation survived in any form. Everything perished! We know in Noah's flood that two of all life forms were saved.

II Peter 3:7; "But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are dept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is the second heaven and earth age which we are living in now. This earth age will not be destroyed until God's time of judgment on the ungodly men of this earth age comes to a close. that time of perdition [destruction] is after the millennium, and after the judgment. Then will come the consuming fire. Hebrews 12:19 tells us that our God is that consuming

 

 

I already told you that the "world" also means the kingdoms/systems of mankind.  Here are some definitions of the Hebrew word:  kosmos

an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government

1. the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ

The word "world"  can mean "Governments" or "ungodly ways".   These were completely destroyed in the flood, and so 2 Peter 3:6 can actually apply to the flood even though you claim it cannot.  

[siegi91]

On 2/14/2016 at 4:21 PM, ARGOSY said:

I'm not assigning billions of years to creation week. I am assigning billions of years to the period BEFORE creation week.  hmbld seems to be claiming that nothing ever happened before creation week. I claim that with an eternal and intelligent and creative God, his suggestion is impossible.

I don't think it is possible. Because God, by being eternal, existed before those billions of years. And before those billions, of billions, of billions ......., of years.  And so on. No matter how far in the past, He existed before that.

In other words, it took Him an infinite amount of time before firing the birth of the Universe.

 siegi

 

 

 

[simplejeff]

2 minutes ago, siegi91 said:

... God, by being eternal, existed before those billions of years. And before those billions, of billions, of billions ......., of years.  And so on. No matter how far in the past, He existed before that.

In other words, it took Him an infinite amount of time before firing the birth of the Universe.  siegi

AMEN!    VERY GOOD! 

[hmbld]

32 minutes ago, siegi91 said:

I don't think it is possible. Because God, by being eternal, existed before those billions of years. And before those billions, of billions, of billions ......., of years.  And so on. No matter how far in the past, He existed before that.

In other words, it took Him an infinite amount of time before firing the birth of the Universe.

 siegi

 

 

 

So I am asking, did time always exist, before these billions being referred to?  Why not say trillions and so on?  Or did time start with creation?

[siegi91]

1 minute ago, hmbld said:

So I am asking, did time always exist, before these billions being referred to?  Why not say trillions and so on?  Or did time start with creation?

I am an atheist, so I cannot answer about the theology of time.

But I know St. Augustine was troubled by that problem. He wondered what God was doing before creating the Universe. He came to the conclusion that God created time as well.

I am not sure he really solved the problem, though.

 

 

 

[ARGOSY]

17 hours ago, hmbld said:

So I am asking, did time always exist, before these billions being referred to?  Why not say trillions and so on?  Or did time start with creation?

Eternal means:  lasting or existing forever; without end.

So if God is eternal, then whatever event one can think of , God existed before that event.  That logic is irrefutable, because God is called "eternal"

That logic remains true, even though time is a relative concept, and God exists throughout time. Even if one conceptualises "time" as only applying to a particular project of God when he sets into place a series of events  .... (eg time started with creation)  , it still remains that God is eternal, and so even if outside of time, he still exists forever.  

So these concepts may be difficult to grasp, but why water down the eternal nature of God by debating the concept of time, God remains eternal and always was, and so existed before any event that ever occurred.

[angels4u]

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Rev.1:8
 

[enoob57]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 10:20 AM, siegi91 said:

I am an atheist, so I cannot answer about the theology of time.

But I know St. Augustine was troubled by that problem. He wondered what God was doing before creating the Universe. He came to the conclusion that God created time as well.

I am not sure he really solved the problem, though.

 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Eternal means:  lasting or existing forever; without end.

So if God is eternal, then whatever event one can think of , God existed before that event.  That logic is irrefutable, because God is called "eternal"

That logic remains true, even though time is a relative concept, and God exists throughout time. Even if one conceptualises "time" as only applying to a particular project of God when he sets into place a series of events  .... (eg time started with creation)  , it still remains that God is eternal, and so even if outside of time, he still exists forever.  

So these concepts may be difficult to grasp, but why water down the eternal nature of God by debating the concept of time, God remains eternal and always was, and so existed before any event that ever occurred.

There is a natural reality that takes place in the reasoning of time and eternality of God... we have been created/born, steeped if you will, in the
time, matter, space continuum... so much so that it is all our reflection of thought and reason causing what God has said here a viable truth

Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
KJV

 This is the initial truth of God before us and by our begin as non witnesses the only path to Him is faith as revealed

Heb 11:1-3

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

Now we, being laid within this capsule of reality, have no recourse to do otherwise but either examine the Scripture for logical truth... if we
turn to the created element which is in the same begin as we this only murks the water of clarity... We either by merit of written Scripture
or by prowess of mankind in present day examine surmising past realtiy... both will be faith but only one with substance being the written
Scripture by which God has said this is 'My Word'! Scripture by its formation a historical proven by archeology to date a >fact< can be
examined and will event the substance of surety whereby one will readily place their entire being upon it precepts...   Love, Steven

[Kan]

9 hours ago, angels4u said:

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Rev.1:8
 

The Son of God is the first and last, Alpha and omega, the beginning and ending - simultaneously. 

God gave us the ability to question Him, and His existence, but He could not make us capable of comprehending Him, simply because we cannot be God, by being created.

So we may learn more in time, but God will always be beyond our comprehension, and it is something we can only accept by love, or resigning in trust and adoration.

As far as time is concerned, God has given us a clue what it means to Him, with the illustration of the interchangeability of a day with a thousand years. It is not about an exact, measure, but to show that even eternity can be no time at all with God, and the other way around. And neither is it saying that these times are the only measure that God would include. That in itself shows that there are many other factors of existence we cannot know, things that span into a realm we have no idea of.

However according the the Psalmist, the incomprehensibility and greatness of God is clear, telling us that the realm of God's own existence is extremely strong, eternal, full of the best things, light, warmth and love, etc. He is called rich, and that would be rich in more than what we could ever think of. But we know that our existence is relatively poor compared to God, even at our best in the garden of Eden, we are highly vulnerable and dependent.

The passing of time as we experience it, is a type of experience that we can handle, relate to and comprehend. God is not beyond that, and works with it. It is included in His existence, and not apart from Himself. It is one experience which is as true as God Himself.

So to say that He is beyond time and space is wrong, and smacks of Babylonian teaching which says that the gods have nothing to do with flesh. Rather the existence we experience in time and space is a real factor of God's own existence, but certainly only a fraction.

God made man in His own image, with the ability to have an experience which mimics His own, yet on a finite scale as it must be. We were made to have a realm, possessing incredible love, wisdom and power.

Through the experience of Salvation, Christ has elevated the human race from their Edenic realm, to His own throne, and the human race will one day, inherit, not just their new world, but the entire universe, as coheirs with Christ.

The 7th day Sabbath is where the Almighty meets with finite beings. 

 

[HAZARD]

Revelation 12:12, Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, (PLURAL) and ye that dwell in them (PLURAL). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
 

These Scriptures teach that there definately is life out there in the heavens.

Colossians 1:16, For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (THRONES, DOMINIONS, PRINCIPALITIES. He created them all TO BE INHABITED) .Isaiah 45:18, For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: