Creation and an Old Earth - One Possibility

[Guest shiloh357]

Hazard is that just more copy and paste from the heretic, Finis Jennings Dake?

Wow, that's drawing a long bow. So now your a heretic hunter and accuser!

Dake was huge heretic.  Everyone knows that.   He even denied salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.    That's enough for him to be a false teacher.

[HAZARD]

Hazard, 

It seems to me that your reasoning, is like beginning with the Bible, then being slung away from it, and then trying to land in the same spot on the Bible with double vision.

 

Not my reasoning, I just read the Scriptures and if I am unsure of something I gather each and every scripture I can on the topic or doctrine I am studying, put them all together and with an open and honest hart try and get the big picture, ignoring all  the ideas, traditions, and teachings of men, relying purely on the Holy Spirit, and after many hours of study and prayer, God reveals all He has to tell us. Its that simple. And theres never any need to try and big note ones self by trying to put another down in any way.

Some people are at the bottom of the ladder of biblical knowledge, some are nearing the top, and most are somewhere in between. Lets help those at the bottom, and those in between, try and refrain from pulling those above down, without sure and proper Scriptures showing they are in error, if in fact the are.. Theres a start.

[Guest shiloh357]

Hazard, 

It seems to me that your reasoning, is like beginning with the Bible, then being slung away from it, and then trying to land in the same spot on the Bible with double vision.

 

Not my reasoning, I just read the Scriptures and if I am unsure of something I gather each and every scripture I can on the topic or doctrine I am studying, put them all together and with an open and honest hart try and get the big picture, ignoring all  the ideas, traditions, and teachings of men, relying purely on the Holy Spirit, and after many hours of study and prayer, God reveals all He has to tell us. Its that simple.

No, you just copy and paste Finis Dake.  

[HAZARD]

Hazard is that just more copy and paste from the heretic, Finis Jennings Dake?

Wow, that's drawing a long bow. So now your a heretic hunter and accuser!

Dake was huge heretic.  Everyone knows that.   He even denied salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.    That's enough for him to be a false teacher.

Who's everyone? Show me where He denied salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone. 

Here's what he actually said;

"Such benefits are received soley by free moral agents upon the principle of humiliation and entire dependence upon God BY FAITH, PLUS much much more!

But now in Christ Jesus, ye who sometimes were afar off are made right by the blood of Christ . . . . that He might reconcile both (Jews and Gentiles) unto God in one body (Eph. 1:11-22; 3:6. "Whowill have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.Who gave Himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:4-6). - - thatis all men, not justa few, and men of all nations who would want to meet the terms of salvation.

Another Scripture says, "The Grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we shouldlive soberly, tightiously and godly, in this present world" (Tit. 2:11-14; 2:4-7).

And again, we read that Jesus suffered death "that by he the GRACE OF GOD  should taste death for every man" (Hebrews 2:9-18). Therefore atonement is not limited.

He goes on to say; All of God's great benefits come through His marvellous GRACE. We deserve nothing but He gives us everything. Grace moves God to act in behalf of and for the best and eternal good of the whole creation. God grace is seen in acts of judgment as well as in acts of mercy. We get through grace every good and perfect gift" and "all things that pertain unto life and godliness" (John 3:16; Romans 3:24; 5;2, 17-21; 6:14; 8:32; 2 Cor. 8:9' 9:8; Eph. 1:6-7; 2:5-8; Jas. 1:17; 4:6; 1 Peter 5:5; 2 Peter 1:3-4)

Such benefits are received soley by free moral agents upon the principle of humiliation and entire dependence upon God BY FAITH, realizing the creature is nothing, and the creator is all and the sorce of all, Such blessings are wholly apart from works (Romans3:24-31; 4:1-4, 16; 5:15-21; 6:14, 15; 11:6; Gal. 2:16; 3:1-12; Eph. 2:7-9)."

He spoke for hours on this doctrine without even looking at the Bible once, and when I checked what he said, ever Scripture supported what he was saying.

This is just a snippet of what he preached regarding the doctrine of grace. I could write pages and pages of what he said.

Can you talk for hours on any doctrin reciting hundreds of Scriptures supporting what you are saying without looking in the bible or looking at and reading notes as you speak? I know I cannot.

I sure would like to have that gift of the spirit.

How quick we are to accuse!

[Guest shiloh357]

Hazard is that just more copy and paste from the heretic, Finis Jennings Dake?

Wow, that's drawing a long bow. So now your a heretic hunter and accuser!

Dake was huge heretic.  Everyone knows that.   He even denied salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.    That's enough for him to be a false teacher.

Who's everyone? Show me where He denied salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone. 

Here's what he actually said;

 

"Such benefits are received soley by free moral agents upon the principle of humiliation and entire dependence upon God BY FAITH, PLUS much much more!

But now in Christ Jesus, ye who sometimes were afar off are made right by the blood of Christ . . . . that He might reconcile both (Jews and Gentiles) unto God in one body (Eph. 1:11-22; 3:6. "Whowill have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.Who gave Himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:4-6). - - thatis all men, not justa few, and men of all nations who would want to meet the terms of salvation.

Another Scripture says, "The Grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we shouldlive soberly, tightiously and godly, in this present world" (Tit. 2:11-14; 2:4-7).

And again, we read that Jesus suffered death "that by he the GRACE OF GOD  should taste death for every man" (Hebrews 2:9-18). Therefore atonement is not limited.

He goes on to say; All of God's great benefits come through His marvellous GRACE. We deserve nothing but He gives us everything. Grace moves God to act in behalf of and for the best and eternal good of the whole creation. God grace is seen in acts of judgment as well as in acts of mercy. We get through grace every good and perfect gift" and "all things that pertain unto life and godliness" (John 3:16; Romans 3:24; 5;2, 17-21; 6:14; 8:32; 2 Cor. 8:9' 9:8; Eph. 1:6-7; 2:5-8; Jas. 1:17; 4:6; 1 Peter 5:5; 2 Peter 1:3-4)

Such benefits are received soley by free moral agents upon the principle of humiliation and entire dependence upon God BY FAITH, realizing the creature is nothing, and the creator is all and the sorce of all, Such blessings are wholly apart from works (Romans3:24-31; 4:1-4, 16; 5:15-21; 6:14, 15; 11:6; Gal. 2:16; 3:1-12; Eph. 2:7-9)."

He spoke for hours on this doctrine without even looking at the Bible once, and when I checked what he said, ever Scripture supported what he was saying.

This is just a snippet of what he preached regarding the doctrine of grace. I could write pages and pages of what he said.

Can you talk for hours on any doctrin reciting hundreds of Scriptures supporting what you are saying without looking in the bible or looking at and reading notes as you speak? I know I cannot.

I sure would like to have that gift of the spirit.

How quick we are to accuse!

His teachings were so far off from the Bible that his descendants had edit the Bible and change a lot of what he said because it was proven to be false teaching.

In his book "God's plan for man,"   Dake taught that one sin would result in the loss of salvation.   He taught a works-based system of righteousness.

[HAZARD]

Hazard, 

It seems to me that your reasoning, is like beginning with the Bible, then being slung away from it, and then trying to land in the same spot on the Bible with double vision.

 

Not my reasoning, I just read the Scriptures and if I am unsure of something I gather each and every scripture I can on the topic or doctrine I am studying, put them all together and with an open and honest hart try and get the big picture, ignoring all  the ideas, traditions, and teachings of men, relying purely on the Holy Spirit, and after many hours of study and prayer, God reveals all He has to tell us. Its that simple.

No, you just copy and paste Finis Dake.  

 

You have a closed mind.

Have you truly taken the time to read what he said about grace/ No, because you would not be saying what your saying. He started his lesson on grace with;

"THE DISPENSATION OF GRACE

(Matt. 3:1 - - Rev. 19:10)

This dispensation is so called because the grace of God in the prominent characteristic throughout. "The law was given to Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (JOHN 1:16, 17). And as I said he spoke for hours on this doctrine covering every aspect.

Talking to you is like talking to the moon. You just don't agree and that's ok, you can believe what you like. I don't say Dake was perfect or right in everything he said, but he was not a heretic as you claim. You need to get over yourself and have a little humility and show some love for your fellow man, and stop acting like some trumped up pox doctors clerk!I have better things to do than spend hours tying out scriptures for someone who's mind is closed.

All you give is nothing, no scriptures, nothing to support what you think, just rubbish. You treat people like the pharisies treated Jesus and the disciples.

[HAZARD]

Hazard is that just more copy and paste from the heretic, Finis Jennings Dake?

Wow, that's drawing a long bow. So now your a heretic hunter and accuser!

Dake was huge heretic.  Everyone knows that.   He even denied salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.    That's enough for him to be a false teacher.

Who's everyone? Show me where He denied salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone. 

Here's what he actually said;

 

"Such benefits are received soley by free moral agents upon the principle of humiliation and entire dependence upon God BY FAITH, PLUS much much more!

But now in Christ Jesus, ye who sometimes were afar off are made right by the blood of Christ . . . . that He might reconcile both (Jews and Gentiles) unto God in one body (Eph. 1:11-22; 3:6. "Whowill have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.Who gave Himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:4-6). - - thatis all men, not justa few, and men of all nations who would want to meet the terms of salvation.

Another Scripture says, "The Grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we shouldlive soberly, tightiously and godly, in this present world" (Tit. 2:11-14; 2:4-7).

And again, we read that Jesus suffered death "that by he the GRACE OF GOD  should taste death for every man" (Hebrews 2:9-18). Therefore atonement is not limited.

He goes on to say; All of God's great benefits come through His marvellous GRACE. We deserve nothing but He gives us everything. Grace moves God to act in behalf of and for the best and eternal good of the whole creation. God grace is seen in acts of judgment as well as in acts of mercy. We get through grace every good and perfect gift" and "all things that pertain unto life and godliness" (John 3:16; Romans 3:24; 5;2, 17-21; 6:14; 8:32; 2 Cor. 8:9' 9:8; Eph. 1:6-7; 2:5-8; Jas. 1:17; 4:6; 1 Peter 5:5; 2 Peter 1:3-4)

Such benefits are received soley by free moral agents upon the principle of humiliation and entire dependence upon God BY FAITH, realizing the creature is nothing, and the creator is all and the sorce of all, Such blessings are wholly apart from works (Romans3:24-31; 4:1-4, 16; 5:15-21; 6:14, 15; 11:6; Gal. 2:16; 3:1-12; Eph. 2:7-9)."

He spoke for hours on this doctrine without even looking at the Bible once, and when I checked what he said, ever Scripture supported what he was saying.

This is just a snippet of what he preached regarding the doctrine of grace. I could write pages and pages of what he said.

Can you talk for hours on any doctrin reciting hundreds of Scriptures supporting what you are saying without looking in the bible or looking at and reading notes as you speak? I know I cannot.

I sure would like to have that gift of the spirit.

How quick we are to accuse!

His teachings were so far off from the Bible that his descendants had edit the Bible and change a lot of what he said because it was proven to be false teaching.

In his book "God's plan for man,"   Dake taught that one sin would result in the loss of salvation.   He taught a works-based system of righteousness.

And your perfect, your teachings and ideas are spot on, you have made no mistakes, your perfect and need no corrections.

Do you believe Peter was a perfect disciple? in fact Peter like Judas was a backslider, and like is all was lost, until he repented.

Peter was a back slider. Matt. 26:58; "But Peter followed him afar off unto the high priest's palace, and went in, and sat with the servants, to see the end."

1. In verse 33; Pr. 16:18, he boasted.
2. Made Christ a lier (v 33-35)
3. Slept instead of praying (v 40)
4. Failed to moritify the flesh (v 41)
5. Relied on the arm of flesh (v 51)
6. Forsook Christ and fled (v 56)
7. Followed afar off (v 58)
8. Sat with the Lords enemies (v 58)
9. Gave up hope-discouraged (v 58)
10. became afraid of men (v 69-74)
11. Lied (v 69-74)
12 Cursed (v 69-74)
Jesus had predicted his backsliding and re-conversion (Luke 22:31-34). So your perfect are you, and everything you say and believe we must accept? How about one or two scriptures to show us where your coming from, or is it too hard for you?

[HAZARD]

You wrote, dake taught one sin will keep us from salvation?

Here we go, bash Dake and ignore what good he did do, and the scriptures he cited to support what he was teaching. Here is one small portion of hours of teaching that he did actually say regarding sin and how it can and does separate men from God.

You should know this! One sin can and will separate us from God. God said the man who sins, he shall die, or be separated from Him.

God never said, "Well ok, one or two small sins I can excuse, but watch it. Jesus only died for the big sins, you know and the guys who committed many?"

Ezek. 18:  20, The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

men are free moral agents and can turn to God any time they so choose and get rid of sin. "Choose this day whom you will serve" still applies to man, and each one is serving the master of his own choice (Josh 24;15; Judges 5:8; Isa. 66:3, 4; mark 16:16; John 3;14-18, 36; 6:37; 7:27-29; Acts 2:38, 3;19; 13:38, 39; 26:18; Romans6:16).

God stated that he is not willing that any should perish, but that "ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE"; so it is entirely up to each individual to become reconciled to God OR SUFFER THE PENALTY FOR SIN (1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Peter 3:19)

1 Tim. 2:4, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pet. 3:9, The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Will one sin damn a person? What do you think shilo?

 1 John 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Romans 7:5, For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

It took only one sin to curse the whole human race, or did you not know this?

Romans 5:12: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that3 all have sinned:
    13, (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    14, Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
    15, But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
    16, And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
    17, For if by one man's4 offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
    18, Therefore as by the offence5 of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness6 of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
    19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
    20, Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
    21, That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sin committed is as much sin one time as it is another. It is as much sin to the saved as it is to the unsaved.Whenever a man sins he must, until he repents, cease to be holy. He must stand condemned and incur the penalty of that one sin just as Adam did or God would be a respecter of persons and a party to selfishness and sin.

E'r, no this is not copy and past but I will keep it and re-past it if you keep denying one sin will keep a person out of Heaven.

 

Now you please show us where God says, "Sinners can and will enter Heaven?" Or better still, God will not keep a person out of heaven if he commits only one sin."

[missmuffet]

The earth is 6,000 years old.Give or take a few hundred years.

Edited November 5, 2015 by bopeep1909

[HAZARD]

bopeep 1909 said "The earth is 6,000 years old.Give or take a few hundred years"

 

You can believe that if you want, no worries at all. Deny scriptures all you like.

 

When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life on Earth, we can speak with Bible authority that it was about 6000 years ago. This can be seen by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam. In no Scripture are we taught to believe that the heavens and the Earth were originally created during the six days and at the time of Adam about 6000 years ago.
Some use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to try and prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore, that they were created about 6000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages.

In these Scriptures the Hebrew word 'ASAH,' meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of the word 'BARA,' to create. These verses picture the re-creation work of the six days and not the original creation "In the beginning."

'ASAH' never means to create. It is translated 'MADE,' 659 times; 'MAKE,' 449 times; 'MAKETH,' 59 times and 'MAKEST,' sixteen times; 'MAKER,' thirteen times; 'MAKING,' eleven times; and 'MADEST,' three times.
When God said, "In six days, the Lord 'MADE' heaven and Earth," he had in mind the restoration of the heaven (firmament,or clouds) the Earth to a habitable state as it was before the destruction of Lucifers kingdom by the flood and Gen. 1:2.