SHOULD CHRISTIANS, FOLLOW THE TORAH ?

[Guest shiloh357]

yes and no-yes, the first 5 books of the Bible is the large part of that-and that part is yes, scripture. They include history but also the law-and while Ive stated before, and re-affirm this, the law is important-as it defines what is and what is not sin, we are no longer bound by it.

 

However, the first 5 books is not all the Torah contains-the Toran also contains 603 additional commandments. These may or may not all be scriptural.

 

So, let me rephrase my original statement-yes, as much so as it pertains to scripture-the first 5 books. But, if thats the case then there is no need to follow the Torah as its own entity-but rather as its already included in our Bible. the 603 additional commandments, perhaps may make for good informational study. but wasn't inspired.

No, the Torah is the first five books of the Bible and it contains 613 commandments and all of those are listed from Exodus through Deut.   You are confusing the Torah with the Talmud.

[SINNERSAVED]

yes and no-yes, the first 5 books of the Bible is the large part of that-and that part is yes, scripture. They include history but also the law-and while Ive stated before, and re-affirm this, the law is important-as it defines what is and what is not sin, we are no longer bound by it.

 

However, the first 5 books is not all the Torah contains-the Toran also contains 603 additional commandments. These may or may not all be scriptural.

 

So, let me rephrase my original statement-yes, as much so as it pertains to scripture-the first 5 books. But, if thats the case then there is no need to follow the Torah as its own entity-but rather as its already included in our Bible. the 603 additional commandments, perhaps may make for good informational study. but wasn't inspired.

No, the Torah is the first five books of the Bible and it contains 613 commandments and all of those are listed from Exodus through Deut.   You are confusing the Torah with the Talmud.

I am sorry I have to ask ? what is the Talmud, ,and how does it apply to us in today , if it has any meaning to our walk with God today?

[Guest shiloh357]

yes and no-yes, the first 5 books of the Bible is the large part of that-and that part is yes, scripture. They include history but also the law-and while Ive stated before, and re-affirm this, the law is important-as it defines what is and what is not sin, we are no longer bound by it.

 

However, the first 5 books is not all the Torah contains-the Toran also contains 603 additional commandments. These may or may not all be scriptural.

 

So, let me rephrase my original statement-yes, as much so as it pertains to scripture-the first 5 books. But, if thats the case then there is no need to follow the Torah as its own entity-but rather as its already included in our Bible. the 603 additional commandments, perhaps may make for good informational study. but wasn't inspired.

No, the Torah is the first five books of the Bible and it contains 613 commandments and all of those are listed from Exodus through Deut.   You are confusing the Torah with the Talmud.

I am sorry I have to ask ? what is the Talmud, ,and how does it apply to us in today , if it has any meaning to our walk with God today?

The Talmud is a multi-volume "commentary"  on the Torah.   Basically the Talmud (which combines the Mishnah and Gemara) is the compendium of Jewish law that expands on the commandments of the Torah in the five books of Moses.   It has all kinds of extra laws and rabbinic rules meant to guide the Jews in how to actually "do"  the commandments in the Torah.   It is also known as the "Oral Law"  and was in existence at the time of Christ.

[Qnts2]

The Torah is, as you stated, the 5 books of Moses. It contains the story of creation, Adam and Eve, the covenant between God and Adam in the garden of Eden, and then the fall of Adam and Eve due to disobedience to the covenant God made with Adam. That resulted in what is called the fall of Adam and Eve when sin entered the human race. This is very important to Christians as it explains the condition of all people and the need for a savior.

Genesis 3:14So the Lord God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
¹⁵ And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Genesis 3:15 is the first prophesy concerning the coming Messiah. From there, Genesis lists various times when people sinned, further showing that no matter the covenant, people continue to sin. We have the murder of Abel, the tower of Babel, the flood judgement at the time of Noah, etc. When we get to Abraham, God promised to Abraham, that the his linage will include the Messiah. 

Abraham had two children, Abel and Isaac. Isaac was promised that his linage will include the Messiah. Isaac had two children, Esau and Jacob. Esau sinned and rejected his inheritance. The blessing and promise of the future Messiah went to Jacob. Jacob was later renamed Israel by God and the children of Israel are descendents of the 12 children of Jacob/Israel.

After God leading the children of Israel out of Egypt, He gave them the Mosaic covenant. While they broke, but in His mercy, God provided a priesthood to intercede for the children of Israel, and provided animal sacrifices to cover the sins of the children of Israel. God also promised the Messiah would come thru the linage of one of the 12 children of Jacob/Israel, Judah.

The New Testament says a couple of things about the Torah.       

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

In Judaism, the OT is divided into 3 books. The Torah (five books of Moses), the Neviim (the Prophets), and the Ketuvim (the Writings). At Jesus time, the Torah was recognized as the words of God 'dictated' to Moses. The Prophets is the revelations of God to men appointed by God as Prophets. And at the time of Jesus, the Writings were still in the process of canonization by the Jewish people. At the time of Jesus, the book of Psalms was canonized as a part of the 'Ketuvim/Writings'. In Luke, these divisions of the OT were already in use. We know from Luke that the Torah, the Neviim and the Ketuvin speak prophesy concerning Jesus the Messiah.   

Luke 24:44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”

How important is the Torah? Without the Torah, we would not know why we need a Savior, the continuing sin of all people, the prophesies to recognize the Messiah/Savior. All of this is the very basis of the New Testament and the New Covenant brought by Jesus.

Are we obligated to the Mosaic covenant? Well, if you are Jewish, and have not accepted Jesus, you are obligated to the Mosaic covenant as it was given to the Jewish people for their entire lives and for all generations. If you are not Jewish and have not accepted Jesus, then you are obligated to the covenant given to Noah. Both of those covenants have been broken but there is not out. Neither of those covenants promise eternal salvation. Both of those covenants point to a future Messiah, Jesus.

[angels4u]

Hello Sinner,

Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,…Romans 8:2

 

As born again Christian we don't live under the law , Jesus  came to fulfill the law and set us free by accepting His Salvation plan. Do we live by the law as Christians? I live in freedom in Christ and go by the rules the Holy Spirit is telling me and that can be through reading the law , I believe if our spirit is convicting us if something is wrong and yes then it's wrong for me and that can be different for you then it is for me?

[SINNERSAVED]

yes and no-yes, the first 5 books of the Bible is the large part of that-and that part is yes, scripture. They include history but also the law-and while Ive stated before, and re-affirm this, the law is important-as it defines what is and what is not sin, we are no longer bound by it.

 

However, the first 5 books is not all the Torah contains-the Toran also contains 603 additional commandments. These may or may not all be scriptural.

 

So, let me rephrase my original statement-yes, as much so as it pertains to scripture-the first 5 books. But, if thats the case then there is no need to follow the Torah as its own entity-but rather as its already included in our Bible. the 603 additional commandments, perhaps may make for good informational study. but wasn't inspired.

No, the Torah is the first five books of the Bible and it contains 613 commandments and all of those are listed from Exodus through Deut.   You are confusing the Torah with the Talmud.

I am sorry I have to ask ? what is the Talmud, ,and how does it apply to us in today , if it has any meaning to our walk with God today?

The Talmud is a multi-volume "commentary"  on the Torah.   Basically the Talmud (which combines the Mishnah and Gemara) is the compendium of Jewish law that expands on the commandments of the Torah in the five books of Moses.   It has all kinds of extra laws and rabbinic rules meant to guide the Jews in how to actually "do"  the commandments in the Torah.   It is also known as the "Oral Law"  and was in existence at the time of Christ.

thank you for that explanation, you see ,I am learning something every day, awesome, blessing to you. 

[SINNERSAVED]

The Torah is, as you stated, the 5 books of Moses. It contains the story of creation, Adam and Eve, the covenant between God and Adam in the garden of Eden, and then the fall of Adam and Eve due to disobedience to the covenant God made with Adam. That resulted in what is called the fall of Adam and Eve when sin entered the human race. This is very important to Christians as it explains the condition of all people and the need for a savior.

Genesis 3:14So the Lord God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
¹⁵ And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Genesis 3:15 is the first prophesy concerning the coming Messiah. From there, Genesis lists various times when people sinned, further showing that no matter the covenant, people continue to sin. We have the murder of Abel, the tower of Babel, the flood judgement at the time of Noah, etc. When we get to Abraham, God promised to Abraham, that the his linage will include the Messiah. 

Abraham had two children, Abel and Isaac. Isaac was promised that his linage will include the Messiah. Isaac had two children, Esau and Jacob. Esau sinned and rejected his inheritance. The blessing and promise of the future Messiah went to Jacob. Jacob was later renamed Israel by God and the children of Israel are descendents of the 12 children of Jacob/Israel.

After God leading the children of Israel out of Egypt, He gave them the Mosaic covenant. While they broke, but in His mercy, God provided a priesthood to intercede for the children of Israel, and provided animal sacrifices to cover the sins of the children of Israel. God also promised the Messiah would come thru the linage of one of the 12 children of Jacob/Israel, Judah.

The New Testament says a couple of things about the Torah.       

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

In Judaism, the OT is divided into 3 books. The Torah (five books of Moses), the Neviim (the Prophets), and the Ketuvim (the Writings). At Jesus time, the Torah was recognized as the words of God 'dictated' to Moses. The Prophets is the revelations of God to men appointed by God as Prophets. And at the time of Jesus, the Writings were still in the process of canonization by the Jewish people. At the time of Jesus, the book of Psalms was canonized as a part of the 'Ketuvim/Writings'. In Luke, these divisions of the OT were already in use. We know from Luke that the Torah, the Neviim and the Ketuvin speak prophesy concerning Jesus the Messiah.   

Luke 24:44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”

How important is the Torah? Without the Torah, we would not know why we need a Savior, the continuing sin of all people, the prophesies to recognize the Messiah/Savior. All of this is the very basis of the New Testament and the New Covenant brought by Jesus.

Are we obligated to the Mosaic covenant? Well, if you are Jewish, and have not accepted Jesus, you are obligated to the Mosaic covenant as it was given to the Jewish people for their entire lives and for all generations. If you are not Jewish and have not accepted Jesus, then you are obligated to the covenant given to Noah. Both of those covenants have been broken but there is not out. Neither of those covenants promise eternal salvation. Both of those covenants point to a future Messiah, Jesus.

that was a awesome break down, ,that's very informative ,and I will have to put that in my notes , thank you

[SINNERSAVED]

Hello Sinner,

Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,…Romans 8:2

 

As born again Christian we don't live under the law , Jesus  came to fulfill the law and set us free by accepting His Salvation plan. Do we live by the law as Christians? I live in freedom in Christ and go by the rules the Holy Spirit is telling me and that can be through reading the law , I believe if our spirit is convicting us if something is wrong and yes then it's wrong for me and that can be different for you then it is for me?

that is a great and honest point, I do agree! thank you

[Ezra]

HELLO ALL, I don't know if this was already brought up for discussion, but I thought I would bring it to the table, and see what you all think or what your views is on, this ? should true believers in God follow the TORAH ?

Contrary to the New Testament, Messianic Jews, Seventh Day Adventists, and perhaps some others believe that they are required to follow the Torah.  But the Torah has a very large portion devoted to the Tabernacle, the sacrifices, the offerings, and the feasts connected with the Old Covenant. So unless a person can actually obey each and every one of those commandments (including those pertaining to the Tabernacle) IT IS PURELY A SHAM. And if a person returns to the Old Covenant, he is basically rejecting Christ and the New Covenant. So take your pick and talk to the Orthodox Jews (who only follow certain parts of the Torah and think that God is pleased).

[Qnts2]

The Torah is, as you stated, the 5 books of Moses. It contains the story of creation, Adam and Eve, the covenant between God and Adam in the garden of Eden, and then the fall of Adam and Eve due to disobedience to the covenant God made with Adam. That resulted in what is called the fall of Adam and Eve when sin entered the human race. This is very important to Christians as it explains the condition of all people and the need for a savior.

Genesis 3:14So the Lord God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
¹⁵ And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Genesis 3:15 is the first prophesy concerning the coming Messiah. From there, Genesis lists various times when people sinned, further showing that no matter the covenant, people continue to sin. We have the murder of Abel, the tower of Babel, the flood judgement at the time of Noah, etc. When we get to Abraham, God promised to Abraham, that the his linage will include the Messiah. 

Abraham had two children, Abel and Isaac. Isaac was promised that his linage will include the Messiah. Isaac had two children, Esau and Jacob. Esau sinned and rejected his inheritance. The blessing and promise of the future Messiah went to Jacob. Jacob was later renamed Israel by God and the children of Israel are descendents of the 12 children of Jacob/Israel.

After God leading the children of Israel out of Egypt, He gave them the Mosaic covenant. While they broke, but in His mercy, God provided a priesthood to intercede for the children of Israel, and provided animal sacrifices to cover the sins of the children of Israel. God also promised the Messiah would come thru the linage of one of the 12 children of Jacob/Israel, Judah.

The New Testament says a couple of things about the Torah.       

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

In Judaism, the OT is divided into 3 books. The Torah (five books of Moses), the Neviim (the Prophets), and the Ketuvim (the Writings). At Jesus time, the Torah was recognized as the words of God 'dictated' to Moses. The Prophets is the revelations of God to men appointed by God as Prophets. And at the time of Jesus, the Writings were still in the process of canonization by the Jewish people. At the time of Jesus, the book of Psalms was canonized as a part of the 'Ketuvim/Writings'. In Luke, these divisions of the OT were already in use. We know from Luke that the Torah, the Neviim and the Ketuvin speak prophesy concerning Jesus the Messiah.   

Luke 24:44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”

How important is the Torah? Without the Torah, we would not know why we need a Savior, the continuing sin of all people, the prophesies to recognize the Messiah/Savior. All of this is the very basis of the New Testament and the New Covenant brought by Jesus.

Are we obligated to the Mosaic covenant? Well, if you are Jewish, and have not accepted Jesus, you are obligated to the Mosaic covenant as it was given to the Jewish people for their entire lives and for all generations. If you are not Jewish and have not accepted Jesus, then you are obligated to the covenant given to Noah. Both of those covenants have been broken but there is not out. Neither of those covenants promise eternal salvation. Both of those covenants point to a future Messiah, Jesus.

that was a awesome break down, ,that's very informative ,and I will have to put that in my notes , thank you

Thanks. I do need to correct one thing I wrote. 

'Abraham had two children, Abel and Isaac.'  Abrahams two children were Ishmael and Isaac. Abel was Adams child. My mistake.