Vatican: Jews can be saved without Christ

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

4 hours ago, JohnD said:

I have to agree with you here.

Does the pope claim to be a prophet ? Sorry, I don't know too much about catholicism. I do know he is supposed to be an apostle in the succession on Peter. 

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said:

Converted to what? Roman Catholicism?

What does a messianic Jew have to convert to, or am I going too fast for you?

Messianic Jews don't need to convert to anything.   The Vatican is saying that Orthodox and other nonbelieving Jews don't need to convert and so they discourage evangelizing Jews.   Sorry, but you're not winning this debate.  You are trying to get around having to defend the Indefensible position of those who say that Jews don't need to convert.   And in doing so you are proving to be very dishonest.

Converted Jews like Paul, Peter and the other apostles did play a role in spreading the Gospel.   But nonbelieving Jews do not play a role our salvation.  They need to be converted, no matter what this anti-Christ Pope says.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken said:

Does the pope claim to be a prophet ? Sorry, I don't know too much about catholicism. I do know he is supposed to be an apostle in the succession on Peter. 

False prophet, false teacher, whatever.   He is false in every sense of the word.   He is not of God and he is no apostle, and Peter was never a Pope.  That is Catholic mythology.

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

False prophet, false teacher, whatever.   He is false in every sense of the word.   He is not of God and he is no apostle, and Peter was never a Pope.  That is Catholic mythology.

Just another man to me. Like you, me, and all the rest.

[Guest shiloh357]

26 minutes ago, AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken said:

Just another man to me. Like you, me, and all the rest.

He  is not just another man.  He is another man that, unfortunately, has a hand in leading people to hell.

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

36 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

He  is not just another man.  He is another man that, unfortunately, has a hand in leading people to hell.

One must choose who they follow brother. One man, another, or God. All are judged by their choices, amen ?

[OldSchool2]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

Messianic Jews don't need to convert to anything.   The Vatican is saying that Orthodox and other nonbelieving Jews don't need to convert and so they discourage evangelizing Jews.   Sorry, but you're not winning this debate.  You are trying to get around having to defend the Indefensible position of those who say that Jews don't need to convert.   And in doing so you are proving to be very dishonest.

Converted Jews like Paul, Peter and the other apostles ....

 

.... were Jews who didn't need to "convert" to anything to become a messianic Jew. Did Catholics have to "convert" to Vatican II?

And yes, that was a rhetorical question!

And I am not the one being dishonest, or trying to win a debate; I'm trying to make a point that has been repeatedly lost on you.

[Guest shiloh357]

3 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said:

.... were Jews who didn't need to "convert" to anything to become a messianic Jew. Did Catholics have to "convert" to Vatican II?

And yes, that was a rhetorical question!

And I am not the one being dishonest, or trying to win a debate; I'm trying to make a point that has been repeatedly lost on you.

Your point isn't lost on me.  Your point is simply wrong and you don't know what you're talking about.

Actually they did need to convert and were and went on mission trips to convert their fellow Jews.  Paul converted.  Peter converted.  To say they didn't convert is stupid.  Of course they converted.

And yes you are being dishonest.    The Vatican is saying that Jews don't need to convert since they play a role in our salvation.   You try to obfuscate the issue by trying to point to converted Jews and Jesus to support the point the Vatican is making.   It is intellectually dishonest for you to do that.   The Vatican is talking about modern Judaism.  

You need to use a little more integrity and stop trying to change the subject and dance around it, so much. 

[Guest shiloh357]

6 minutes ago, inchrist said:

actually you guys are getting yourselves in a twist, both Pope Francis and Pope Benedict stated the same thing "times of the Gentiles"  the full number of gentiles saved comes first then the times of the Jews. 144,000 Jews will then evangelize to the jews. Pope Francis and Pope Benedict dont share this view alone infact John Hagee a dispensationalist shares the same thought

"I'm not trying to convert the Jewish people to the Christian faith," he said. "There is nothing in the `night to honor Israel' that does that." In fact, trying to convert Jews is a "waste of time," he said. "The Jewish person who has his roots in Judaism is not going to convert to Christianity. There is no form of Christian evangelism that has failed so miserably as evangelizing the Jewish people.

This clearly isnt just a catholic position now is it?

 

John Hagee is a false teacher and prosperity doctrine advocate.  I would not hold up Hagee is a good example.    He panders to Orthodox Jewish Rabbis, but he denies the need for Jewish people to convert and so he is ultimately their enemy just like the Pope.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, inchrist said:

i've already answered this

I know. And you're wrong.