The Time of Testing

[Omegaman 3.0]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

“If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.  And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Also, as  side note, at least taken in isolation (because I don't want to track down every other verse at the moment), the wrath of God is mentioned. We are not appointed unto wrath, I keep hearing pre-tribbers say. I agree, because that is what the Bible says. Where we disagree, which wrath are we talking about? In that passage, it appears as though, there is some wrath to come after the time of beast worship and wrath taking. However, so say that the wrath equals the tribulation. In that verse, it appears to me, that the wrath is sudsequent to the tribulation, and that is the wrath that I expect believers are not appointed to, and of course, the whole thought is "we are not appointed unto wrath, BUT to obtain salvation, which is also the implication in the passage above. Salvation, instead of the wrath wherein the beast worshipping mark takers will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presense of theholy angels and the Lamb. Just a thought.

 

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

As usual, you won't quote what the passage literally says, so you can misrepresent what it says.

Let's take that one of your points which is the most laughable: "have they [Israel] put an end to sin"?

No, Marv, they certainly have not, and they certainly never will. There is only One who was and is able to put away sin. The same Messiah who was "cut off, but not for himself." Why was he cut off? To put an end to sin. This prophecy, like the others, was fulfilled in the first century AD.

William

When did you receive the benefits of the six tasks of Dan 9:24?

In Christ

Montana Marv

[WilliamL]

5 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

William

When did you receive the benefits of the six tasks of Dan 9:24?

Verse by verse:

Dan. 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined/decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city…    [These 70 weeks were for the remnant of Judah (Daniel’s people) and for Jerusalem, none else, including me.]  

to finish the transgression/peshah…     [The word means and refers to the revolt/rebellion/apostasy of the priesthood, the one originally spoken of in Daniel 8:12, 13, 23. This took place when Antiochus Epiphanes, after being bribed, removed the pious Onias III from the high priesthood and installed his apostatizing brother Jason; latter 170s B.C. 1 Macc. 2:15 calls the subsequent debasement of the priesthood and Temple “the apostasy” [apostasian]. Similar corruptions of the priesthood, including bribes, took place during the time of Roman rule. Jesus condemned it, and prophesied the desolation of the religious establishment and destruction of Jerusalem and Temple because of it. Matt. 23, esp. vs. 35-39.]

Jesus condemned it, and prophesied the desolation of the religious establishment and destruction of Jerusalem and Temple because of it:

Matt. 23:29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! ... 35 ...upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation. ... 38 Behold, your house [i.e. the Temple] is left to you desolate."

Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. ... 22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."

And where were these things written about the desolations of Jerusalem and its Temple? Nowhere else but in Daniel 9:26-27. Nothing about me here.

and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness…    [All accomplished by the Crucifixion and Resurrection. I WILL gladly claim these eternal "benefits" -- your word -- of my Savior's sacrifice.]

and to close/seal up vision and prophecy…    [Matt. 11:13: “For all the prophets [of Israel] and the law prophesied until John.” Luke 16:16: “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presses into it.”

OT prophecy – that of Daniel’s people, to whom this verse refers – ended at John the Baptist. OT prophets had the Holy Spirit “come upon” them. Beginning at John, prophets were “filled with” it. The former phrase is never used by the NT, and the latter never by the OT. This prophecy also does not apply to me.]

and to anoint the Most Holy [One].    [= Jesus, who became Melchizedek High Priest of the heavenly sanctuary. I do get "benefits" from this one. ]

 

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

However, so say that the wrath equals the tribulation. In that verse, it appears to me, that the wrath is sudsequent to the tribulation,...

Once we are clear that a specific period of tribulation and wrath is assigned to the unbelieving and the ungodly (Revelation chapters 6-18) it is not difficult to see that the Tribulation (wrath), the Great Tribulation (intense wrath), plus the wrath of Satan, are all confined to the same period of judgements.  This is not for the testing of the saints but for the testing of the inhabitants of the earth after the saints are safely in Heaven.

[Sister]

Why do we all just assume that the whole Christian world will be saved?

Did not Jesus warn that wolves shall come in to deceive the flock after his departure?  If the flock are deceived then are they walking in the truth?  And if one is not walking in the truth because he did not read the Word of God for himself searching the scriptures, but trusted in man with his soul, then who is at fault?

I've just met a beautiful lovely 85 yr old lady who has been a christian for 35 years.  She was giving me prophecy with the wrong interpretation and when I corrected her she said, "you know what?, I've been so busy in the church doing this and that, and spent all my time and money building orphanages overseas that I never had the time to really read the bible"  She could of argued with me, but I thought her answer was very honest and humble.  She is still waiting for her rapture before all these terrible events unfold, but I hope to lead her in the right direction.  At the same time, she is hoping to die before the tribulation starts, just in case her doctrine is in error.  If she does learn the truth that this secret rapture does not happen before the tribulation and makes herself prepared in her heart to suffer all things for Christ's sake with all willingness, and then dies before it all happens, then in my opinion, she has done what Abraham was prepared to do with his Son Isaac because of faith.  We cannot fool God, he knows the heart and how far we are prepared to go, even if we don't quite get there.

Adding to what I said earlier, were we not warned that there were tares amongst the wheat, and both should grow together until the harvest?  Well to separate them (the last generation) there has to be a great test of some sort.  A great temptation of such.  Talk is cheap, and anyone can claim they are saved, so the whole Christian land will be put through a sieve. The sheep will be separated from the goats through that choice they will make.  This is when we can really tell who belongs to the Kingdom and who doesn't because brother will go against brother and love will wax cold. Pick your side. Some will change their tune at the final hour.  Some for the better, and many for the worse.

And being prepared and ready is always a good advantage.

 

 

 

[Montana Marv]

William

Part of your quote from above:  and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness…    [All accomplished by the Crucifixion and Resurrection. I WILL gladly claim these eternal "benefits" -- your word -- of my Savior's sacrifice.]

 

And so will/shall Israel.  Thus fulfilling the 70 Weeks prophecy of Daniel 9:24.  This is what Dan 9:24 is all about.  The day when Israel accepts the Messiah.  Thank you for your input.  Since you have received some of the benefits, and so Shall Israel receive all these benefits as prophesied.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[n2thelight]

On Saturday, December 12, 2015 at 9:53 PM, SINNERSAVED said:

the time of testing ? when is that time, ?what signifies the actual time of testing ? are we all in agreement when this takes place,?

for we are going to have tribulation, this is biblical, but we are not subject to the wrath of God,

so could the time of testing ,be at the time of the wrath  ?which starts after the tribulation,

It's when satan comes pretending to be Christ..That's the test,have you not read ...The question,do you know the fake from the real..........

satan comes before Christ,ie,6th trump Christ at the 7th...Aint no rapture before these two events....As a matter of fact it's not gonna be a rapture at all,pre,mid or post....We shall simply gather to Christ....Those who have died,come with Him,those still alive are changed to like those who come....

 

Christ comes here,we go nowhere

[RustyAngeL]

In all of this, what do you mean by the "whole Christian Church"?  Do you mean the body of Christ, believers people who have asked Jesus to be the Lord and Savior of their lives, or the ones who happen to be born into a family who went to church?

[SINNERSAVED]

14 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

It's when satan comes pretending to be Christ..That's the test,have you not read ...The question,do you know the fake from the real..........

satan comes before Christ,ie,6th trump Christ at the 7th...Aint no rapture before these two events....As a matter of fact it's not gonna be a rapture at all,pre,mid or post....We shall simply gather to Christ....Those who have died,come with Him,those still alive are changed to like those who come....

 

Christ comes here,we go nowhere

if that is what you believe , but we are all gathered in the end, by the four angels, before the wrath is poured out,

I have read, but did you get my question, there is mixed thoughts on the timing of the testing ? have you read about the gathering to meet him in the clouds ?

[n2thelight]

5 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

if that is what you believe , but we are all gathered in the end, by the four angels, before the wrath is poured out,

I have read, but did you get my question, there is mixed thoughts on the timing of the testing ? have you read about the gathering to meet him in the clouds ?

Those who have died are already with Christ in heaven,that's how He brings them back with Him when He comes...

I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."

This, Paul states, is not his words, but it is from the Word God gave to him. Where? Ecclesiastes 12:7, that is where it is written.

"We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground.

Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies.

Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.

To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".

Those who are even dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body. That is a body that doesn't get sick, or grow old; in other words, it is your spiritual body.

Why?

Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him.

 

The testing happens when satan arrives......

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"

Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

look at v 11 those above were not raptured

Revelation 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

Revelation 12:13 "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."