The Time of Testing

[SINNERSAVED]

9 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

No, I said we do not go through tribulation which is intended for the Ungodly.  And that is what Rev 3:10 implies. And this is throughout the 70th Week.  Your view of Scripture is at fault.  We as Believers do not know what our next trial, test or tribulation is, do we.  I don't, do you.  Yet, Rev 6 and on is a play by play (of these tests, trials, and tribulations and the outcomes) of what will be happening during this 70th week.  What gives?

In Christ

Montana Marv

you are dancing around my question, and really ,you are not even seeing your own delusion,

I am done with trying ,to reason with a person that refuses to see, the truth .

for you have pulled ,a scripture given to a church , of the seven churches, and how do you see your self in this one church,? to receive even what they are told,

you talk about what scriptures don't apply to what people, are you even sure first off ,this is about you, and then you pull this one, and hang on it and hope it is what you want it to be?

this is lack of reading the word in context, you have pulled everything I have seen out of order ,and you want to make it so,? wow.

I am done, so ,so done,, please don't correct others , for you have not answered my questions, and you ...stand corrected,

you should have more then one scripture to back what you say , this is called reaching, and so with that said, have a good night, and blessings to you brother, I will pray for you , really I will,

[n2thelight]

32 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

No, I said we do not go through tribulation which is intended for the Ungodly.  And that is what Rev 3:10 implies. And this is throughout the 70th Week.  Your view of Scripture is at fault.  We as Believers do not know what our next trial, test or tribulation is, do we.  I don't, do you.  Yet, Rev 6 and on is a play by play (of these tests, trials, and tribulations and the outcomes) of what will be happening during this 70th week.  What gives?

In Christ

Montana Marv

What is the trib for the ungodly?

[Sister]

Montanna Marv

Compare it to a woman who goes through horrible horrible labour pains, but after the birth, she rejoices and forgets the pain she went through and realises it was worth it because something so precious came out of it at the end.

Brother you need to read these scriptures, and test your doctrine whether it agrees with the Word of the Lord for the love of the truth, no matter how bitter it will go down at first.  Keep your eyes on the reward that follows.  Let perfect love cast out all fear.

 

Revelation 13:7   And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 13:15   And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

 

  Revelation 14:9   And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

  Revelation 14:10   The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

  Revelation 14:11   And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

  Revelation 14:12   Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 20:4   And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 12/16/2015 at 1:00 PM, Montana Marv said:

And yet can we trust or believe in those who change their minds or take different theological positions. For I don't follow those who change their minds. For if they believe one thing then change. Will they charge positions again 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Who can know? Over 36 years ago, I changed my mind, I was an atheist, and became a believer. Before I was a beleiver though, I abandoned my faith in evolution, because to my mind, the evidence did not point to it. After I became a believer, I became a pre-trib rapturist, becuase that is what heard in my church, heard from Hal Lindsey, heard on the various Calvary Chapel Radio programs (and other Christian radio programs) I listened to. I did not even know that there were other positions, I believed that pre-trib was true, because I believed that was what was taught in the Bible. Then I heard that pre-trib was not the only position. I was a bit surprised that I did not even know that, but I figured other positions, probably came from cults.

However, I was not inclined to just believe people I trusted, based on their say-so alone. I believed they were sincere, but sincerity is not always the same as truth.

So, I purposed to find out what the Bible said. My plan was to read it, cover to cover, scoring it for anything I could find, that spoke to endtimes events, and their timing or sequences. Every time I found a verse or passage that seemed like it impacted that topic, i wrote in on this relatively new product, called a post-it note, and stuck in on a 32 square foot sheet of particle board. I always places them into what I thought was an indicated sequence when I could. As time when on, the sequences change bit, not having any solid order at the time. I began that project sometime in the 1st or 2nd week of June, of 1986 and ended on the day before Valentines day, 1987. Something like 8 months. I did that all but maybe two or three days in those 8 months, about one to three hours every night. I figured I had about 500 hours of study on that project at the time. I had done my homework, more on that topic than anyone I knew, that was for sure. I have continued studying that topic for almost 29 years since.

My conclusion after that rediculous amount of work back in 1986 was, that I could not prove any position from what I had learned. However, I concluded that post-trib, was the likely scenario, because to my mind, it was the only one that did not contradict one or more passages. I had not heard of what is now called the post wrath position, and I have not come to a conclusion yet, about that one. At that time, in addition to that fact that pre-trib seemed to run afoul of some passages, it was disturbing to realize, that my former position, depended of non sequitur, arguments from silence and un warranted assumptions that should not be made. I did not like that it added ideas to scripture that were not in Bible, an observation that many pre-tribbers here at worthy have al but confirmed, by failing to address those adequately, when brought up.

What is the point of all of this? Marv suggest that perhaps, those who change their minds, should not be followed, because they might change their minds again. Marv, I respect you opinions, but seriously?

So, because I once was an atheist, but I changed my mind, I should not be trusted, However, had I stayed an atheist, I could be more trusted because I clung to my beleifs? Another non sequitur I think. Now, I have changed my mind from a pre-tribber to a post tribber, for the same reason that I lefts atheism - the evidence demanded it. From my standpoint, I think a person who will change their opinion when the evidence indicates that a change is in order, can be trusted at least as much and those, who stubbornly stick to a position, when confronted with evidence that refutes or at least should cause serious doubt of the position they adhere to.

My track record is, that so far, I change a position based on evidence, and then have been able to demonstrate that I can hold a position for 3 decades,it is not as though I am tossed back and forth. Mind you, I am willing to change my position. I have given many here at Worthy, many opportunities to provide evidence why I should change, but since that has not been forthcoming, I stick to my guns.

In the last 3 decades, while I continued to study these things, evidence has mounted beyond what those first 500 hours of study revealed, and only a few times had evidence been offered against my position, that made be even go hmm, good point. There have been a few of those, and they have been interesting, but, in the end, they never really panned out under further examination and thought.

I do want to express though, that you and others have presented a good case for pre-tribism, and I appreciate that you have made me think. Of course, I have to say that while 10 years ago, I was probably 90 to 95% sure of my position, it is the pre-tribbers of Worthy, who have brought be to the level, where I am 99 to 99.5% certain of my position. Yet, I admit, I could be wrong, no one should take my word, my opinion  for anything. However, if my evidence is good, that should be taken for what it is worth.

The last days are days of deception, and people will gather to themselves, teachers with ear tickling doctrines. Post-tribism is not ear-tickling, and least I have that going for me!

[Omegaman 3.0]

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

So don't chastise me for not wanting to go through Tribulations intended for the Ungodly.  You see this, for the Ungodly.  It is a test for them, not Us.

Yes, that is an interesting idea, one that I have been looking at during the last couple of days, in a new way for me. Stay tuned, I might even post on that  

[ayin jade]

On 12/16/2015 at 2:00 PM, Montana Marv said:

And yet can we trust or believe in those who change their minds or take different theological positions. For I don't follow those who change their minds. For if they believe one thing then change. Will they charge positions again 

In Christ

Montana Marv

So you do not follow the part of the new testament that Paul wrote? After all, he changed his mind theologically on the road to Damascus.

[Omegaman 3.0]

Just now, ayin jade said:

So you do not follow the part of the new testament that Paul wrote? After all, he changed his mind theologically on the road to Damascus.

but . . .  those theologically trustworthy Pharisees did not change their minds!

[n2thelight]

So when is the harvest and will there be two of them?Scripture please....In other words,how do you'll get harvested before the end of the world?

Edited December 18, 2015 by n2thelight

[Montana Marv]

7 hours ago, n2thelight said:

What is the trib for the ungodly?

The Seal, Trumpet and Bowl Judgments with Armageddon at the end.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

7 hours ago, Sister said:

Montanna Marv

Compare it to a woman who goes through horrible horrible labour pains, but after the birth, she rejoices and forgets the pain she went through and realises it was worth it because something so precious came out of it at the end.

Brother you need to read these scriptures, and test your doctrine whether it agrees with the Word of the Lord for the love of the truth, no matter how bitter it will go down at first.  Keep your eyes on the reward that follows.  Let perfect love cast out all fear.

 

Revelation 13:7   And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 13:15   And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

 

  Revelation 14:9   And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

  Revelation 14:10   The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

  Revelation 14:11   And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

  Revelation 14:12   Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 20:4   And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Sister

They may be tribulation saints, after the fact saints; But not the Bride.

The Bridegroom comes at an unknown time, when one least expects Him.  As in the days of Noah, so shall it be with the Son of Man.  In the days of Noah people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage up to the day Noah entered the Ark (then the door was shut/closed).  All who lived on the earth at this time was doing this.  This same environment exists right now.  All who are living on this earth now are eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.  So we have a match now at this period of time.

Not so during the 70th Week.  These new tribulation saints are gathered up and sent (captivity) among the nations (split families).  Many are killed.  Then there is the 2nd Seal - peace taken from the earth; and the 3rd Seal - Famine; and the 4th Seal where  1/4th of mankind are killed.  I can go on and on - Society in chaos.  Where do you see eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage in all of this.  It cannot happen as it is happening today or in the days of Noah before the Flood.  This time of the 70th Week is a melt down of Society; and they Repented Not.

In Christ

Montana Marv