Matthew 23:8

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On 12/14/2015 at 1:41 PM, Pamelasv said:

I wonder how many questions are too much within a certain time in here.  

Why do churches not heed this?  

'But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. 'Do call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for one is your Leader, that is Christ. But the greatest among you shall be your servant.'   Why are Paul's writings contradictory to this?  So then, does it matter which you choose to go by? I would think it would be better to heed this, since Jesus said it, according to the gospel of Matthew.  Seems like Worthy does this by calling the mods servants.  

 

 

 

 

But there is nothing contradictory about Paul's teachings. What precisely are you having problems with here

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On 12/15/2015 at 4:11 AM, thereselittleflower said:

Paul does so by example.

Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his child - this directly implies Paul is his spiritual father:

• "Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ" (1 Cor. 4:17);
• "To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (1 Tim. 1:2);
• "To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (2 Tim. 1:2). 

He also referred to Timothy as his son - thi directly implies Paul is his spiritual father:

• "This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare" (1 Tim 1:18) 
• "You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 2:1) 
• "But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel" (Phil. 2:22) 

Paul refers to others in the same way - this directly implies Paul is their spiritual father:

• "To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior" (Titus 1:4) 
• "I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment" (Philem. 10).
   

Explicit statement by Paul of his spiritual fatherhood to believers in his charge - directly states he is their spiritual father : 

• "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15). 

Peter also referred to Mark as his son -  this directly implies Peter is his spiritual father:

• "She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark" (1 Pet. 5:13).

Entire churches under their care as their children.

Paul:

• "Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their children" (2 Cor. 12:14)
• "My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!" (Gal. 4:19). 

John:

• "My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2:1) 
• "No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth" (3 John 4) 

John explicitly calls others in the congregations  "father" (1 John 2:13–14). 

 

 

 

Paul here was speaking in a metaphorical sense.  And 1 John 2:13, John was speaking of literal biological fathers. 

[thereselittleflower]

10 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Paul here was speaking in a metaphorical sense.  And 1 John 2:13, John was speaking of literal biological fathers. 

I disagree.

They were both speaking in a spiritual sense.

 

 

[Leonardo Von]

On 12/14/2015 at 3:41 PM, Pamelasv said:

I wonder how many questions are too much within a certain time in here.  

Why do churches not heed this?  

'But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. 'Do call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for one is your Leader, that is Christ. But the greatest among you shall be your servant.'   Why are Paul's writings contradictory to this?  So then, does it matter which you choose to go by? I would think it would be better to heed this, since Jesus said it, according to the gospel of Matthew.  Seems like Worthy does this by calling the mods servants. 

 

Dear sister Pamelasv,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

·        “And everything they do they do with a view to being observed by men; for they widen their  phylacteries and make the tassels large, and love the best seats at a dinner party or in the synagogues, and like to be bowed to in places of public resort, and to be addressed by men as ‘Rabbi'. As for you, do not accept the title of ‘Rabbi,' for one alone is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no one on earth your Father, for One alone is your Father--the Heavenly Father. And do not accept the name of ‘leader,' for your Leader is one alone--the Christ. He who is the greatest among you shall be your servant;” (Matthew 23.5-11 – Weymouth NT).

 

·        Rabbi means teacher, that is, one who teaches with his life. The only one who should serve as a model to be followed by other individuals is Christ. He alone is worthy of this.

·        Father is one who has an offspring. The one who is worthy to abide for all generations and for ever and ever is the Eternal.

·        Guide or leader is exactly the role played by the pastor. The only one who really knows what is best for us is the Eternal. He alone is the right way to be followed and stayed.

 

Let it be clear: the problem is not the title itself. Even because Abraham was called the father (Genesis 17.5; Luke 16:24-30) and Paul encouraged the brothers of Corinth to be imitators of him (1Corinthians 11:1). The problem is someone feels good enough to feel entitled to tell others what to do, and to serve as a model for the brothers and for inspiration for all generations.

This error can be seen in the religious system, which uses theology to try to immortalize its heroes (whom they call the "fathers of the church") as well as its renowned representatives.

 When Paul considered himself the father of the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 4.15) and the Galatians (Galatians 4:19), what he was trying to say is that the Eternal had used him to bring them to Christ. And as for the matter of imitating him, what Paul was trying to say is that Christ must live so intensely in our lives that when individuals look at us they can see the One who is worthy to be followed.

May Jesus help us to understand exactly what our vocation is before the Eternal so that whatever ministry the Eternal gives us will be seen by us as a mere identification of what Jesus wants to do through us.

[Limey_Bob]

On 12/14/2015 at 5:41 PM, Pamelasv said:

I wonder how many questions are too much within a certain time in here.  

Why do churches not heed this?  

'But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. 'Do call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for one is your Leader, that is Christ. But the greatest among you shall be your servant.'   Why are Paul's writings contradictory to this?  So then, does it matter which you choose to go by? I would think it would be better to heed this, since Jesus said it, according to the gospel of Matthew.  Seems like Worthy does this by calling the mods servants.  

 

 

 

 

What an excellent post and great question. Almost nobody is obeying this command, from Reformed to Pentecostal and almost everything in between, men and (now woman) love their religious titles as they elevate them above other people. 

[Limey_Bob]

On 12/15/2015 at 2:19 AM, Ezra said:

The Jewish religious leaders had taken to accepting and assigning various titles to themselves (Father, Rabbi, etc.) to show their spiritual superiority. The Catholic church adopted the same practice with a hierarchy of clergy (Father, Reverend, Right Reverend, Doctor, Cardinal, etc. up to the Pope).  Protestants did not reject this even though it was expressly forbidden by Christ.  Today we have a lot of "Doctors" and "Reverends" who should really be calling themselves "Brothers".  The reason churches do not heed this teaching is that they mix the commandments of God with the doctrines of men.

Great reply, thank you.

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