Who makes sinners into saints?

[1to3]

14 hours ago, 1to3 said:

I know this question is not directed to me, but reading this, I would conclude, that really no man/woman/human, may ever know until we are back with the Lord who are true saints and who are not.

And I don't mean to point only to the Catholic church and its members, but since we are talking about Catholic policies, I would say, until the recent (within the past 50 years and over even past centuries) unveiling of the popes and priests and dare I even include women nuns and other deemed good  people in the picture,  has proven that many who claimed piety or where judged as thus, where in fact libel to some very serious offenses.

 

There is are a few passages in the Bible that say trust no man but God alone:

Psalm 118:8

8It is better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in man. 9It is better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in princes.…

 

Psalm 146: 3

2I will praise the LORD while I live; I will sing praises to my God while I have my being

3Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. 4His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.…

 

Jeremiah 17:5

…4And you will, even of yourself, let go of your inheritance That I gave you; And I will make you serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger Which will burn forever. 5Thus says the LORD, "Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind And makes flesh his strength, And whose heart turns away from the LORD. 6"For he will be like a bush in the desert And will not see when prosperity comes, But will live in stony wastes in the wilderness, A land of salt without inhabitant.…

 

also there is another passage that says , all are we like filthily rags,

Isaiah 64:6

5You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness, Who remembers You in Your ways. Behold, You were angry, for we sinned, We continued in them a long time; And shall we be saved? 6For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. 7There is no one who calls on Your name, Who arouses himself to take hold of You; For You have hidden Your face from us And have delivered us into the power of our iniquities.

 

and Christ Jesus living as a human said: why call me good, only My Father in heaven is good.

Matthew 19: 17

Christ Jesus said Why do you call Me good?

No one is good but One, that is God, but is you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.'

 

To me its quite clear, praying to dead people, because we judge them good, is truly going the wrong way.

 

Thank you kwik for expressing what I also believe.

 

 To :Theres is a little flower,

If you could not understand what I was saying with scripture verses,

Than I think without Gods Holy Spirit helping you SEE, you will not SEE what I wrote in the context that I wrote it which was to show you the word of God from the Holy Bible.

You asked me a question: is Jesus God?

Yes exactly Jesus is God, you know that to? I hope,

as the RCC does acknowledge the trinity of God the Father , the Son and the Holy Spirit of God as being the same yet distinct.

If you read the whole of the chapter I quoted in Matthew 19 and follow through to the next chapter where Christ Jesus explains through a parable about what the kingdom of heaven is like, I do pray that you SEE what Christ Jesus is trying to say, that no one who God gives His Mercy and Grace is better than the other no matter how many good works one has done. 

Following through reading to the end of Matthew chapter 20 Christ Jesus tells a woman inverse 20 through 28 that he who wants to be great will be least, and to those who still did not understand, but asked that Christ Jesus open their eyes so that they may SEE what Christ Jesus was saying, Christ Jesus had compassion and touched their eyes.

 

[thereselittleflower]

1to3

If Jesus is God, and God is good, then Jesus is good.

 

 

[Ezra]

15 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

So are you saying no one can know if you are a saint?

No. What I am saying is that the Pope has no business playing God.

[hmbld]

50 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

1to3

If Jesus is God, and God is good, then Jesus is good.

 

 

Another example of sidestepping what is being shown to you.  You have demonstrated that you have very high intelligence, so when you deliberately sidestep and make others run in circles I can only conclude that you know you don't have scripture to stand on when defending rcc practices/traditions.

[1to3]

5 hours ago, 1to3 said:

Thank you kwik for expressing what I also believe.

 

 To :Theres is a little flower,

If you could not understand what I was saying with scripture verses,

Than I think without Gods Holy Spirit helping you SEE, you will not SEE what I wrote in the context that I wrote it which was to show you the word of God from the Holy Bible.

You asked me a question: is Jesus God?

Yes exactly Jesus is God, you know that to? I hope,

as the RCC does acknowledge the trinity of God the Father , the Son and the Holy Spirit of God as being the same yet distinct.

If you read the whole of the chapter I quoted in Matthew 19 and follow through to the next chapter where Christ Jesus explains through a parable about what the kingdom of heaven is like, I do pray that you SEE what Christ Jesus is trying to say, that no one who God gives His Mercy and Grace is better than the other no matter how many good works one has done. 

Following through reading to the end of Matthew chapter 20 Christ Jesus tells a woman inverse 20 through 28 that he who wants to be great will be least, and to those who still did not understand, but asked that Christ Jesus open their eyes so that they may SEE what Christ Jesus was saying, Christ Jesus had compassion and touched their eyes.

 

Theres a  liitle flower,

Did you read the full chapter of Matthew 19 and 20?

Once again you come at me by asking me if Christ Jesus was good?

If you don't know that by now, may God help you and also help you understand Matthew 19 and 20 in its completeness .

“Why do you call me good? Only God is good.” This is what our Lord Jesus said to the wealthy young man in. Matthew 19:16-26

Why did our Lord say this? Was He denying His inherent deity as the Son of God? I recall a conversation I once had with a Jehovah’s Witness at my front door who tried to use this verse as “proof” that Jesus couldn’t possibly be God. Talking to me as if I were a slow-witted child he asked, “Now, you believe that God is good, right?” Yes, I agreed, God is good. “That’s right!” he said. “And so if God is good and Jesus said ‘don’t call Me good’ then how can Jesus be God?”

Jesus didn’t say, “Don’t call Me good” but instead had carefully asked the young man, “Why do you call Me good?” I then asked him if he thought it was right or wrong to call Christ Jesus good. He wasn’t sure what to say, so I continued, “I think we would both have to agree that Christ Jesus is good. That’s why mournful sinners were drawn to Him, that’s why righteous people loved Him, that’s why even His enemies were forced to invent false charges against Him at His trial. We can’t even say that Christ Jesus was relatively good in comparison to the rest of humanity, because the scriptures testify that there was absolutely no sin or unrighteousness in Him whatsoever. Jesus was and is entirely and completely good, with a goodness utterly indistinguishable from God’s goodness.”

I then concluded, “If Jesus is undeniably good, and we both agree that only God is good, then who must this Jesus be?”

Well I’m sorry to say that the unhappy man at my doorstep lost interest in our discussion after this and soon left. But returning to the gospel in Matthew 19, we can see that Christ Jesus was by no means denying His deity to the rich young man, or His goodness. If anything, He was confirming it. Reading this verse correctly we can see that our Lord was simply trying to make this man slow down and put the pieces of the puzzle together as to who this “good Jesus” must truly be.

And why would He do that in this particular case? There were many people who came to Christ Jesus, mostly asking for healing, and He usually healed them with only a brief word about the importance of faith or of living without sin. But here Christ Jesus spoke of much more, granting a sort of “mini-Theophany” by way of a subtle revelation of His divinity. Why did He do this? The answer might be found in the fact that this young man’s request was different from anyone else’s. He came, seeking not physical healing, but salvation.

“What good thing must I do to inherit eternal life?” Please notice the wisdom in our Lord’s response. He first spoke of the need to follow the commandments of God, or in other words, of the necessity to not bring further harm to one’s soul by doing those things which are contrary to eternal life. Many Christians today have a rather cavalier attitude about sin, feeling that as long as they are forgiven their actions are more or less irrelevant. But the effects of sin aren’t marked on some scoreboard in heaven, but upon our souls. Righteousness matters, and the commandments of God are important to us, or else Christ Jesus wouldn’t have said so.

Now this young man claimed to have kept all the commandments from his youth. This was apparently not a false boast, for we are told in Mark’s account that Jesus looked upon him and loved him when he said this. From Matthew’s gospel we can see that the young man was even further blessed to recognize that the commandments alone were not enough to save him, and so he asked with urgency, “What do I still lack?”

Have you ever thought to ask God, “Lord, what do I still lack?” Most of us would rather tell God what we think is missing from our lives, and be miserable until He gives it to us. But what a bold thing it is to ask, “Lord, what do I still lack?” We can begin to see why Christ Jesus loved this man. And indeed, here was a fellow about as ready as any person could be to receive the answer from Jesus Christ as to what he needed to gain eternal life.

And Christ Jesus told him, “One thing you lack. Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven. And come, take up the cross, and follow Me”. At this command, the man became sad and went away grieving, for he had great possessions.

Our Lord knew He was asking a difficult and unexpected thing of this young man. That is why He first graciously allowed the man a certain spiritual insight into His divine authority. “It is not simply your ‘good teacher’ asking this of you; it is your good God. Follow Me in both life and death, and you will live in My kingdom forever.” The inescapable tragedy of this story is that even with this kind and wonderful revelation, the man still turned his back on Christ Jesus and walked away.

Before we are tempted to think that Christ Jesus was too harsh, notice that the young man didn’t go away angry or offended. He went away grieving. You see, when people think they are being treated unfairly they generally get mad. But when they are asked to do what they know is right, but find that they are unwilling to make the sacrifice, their souls are filled with sorrow.

This is a grief that many Christians know all too well. There may be some impediment in our lives that we know Christ has asked us to give up, to leave behind, or to walk away from that we might follow Him in freedom. Or perhaps there is some good thing He has asked us to do that we are simply unwilling to obey. No matter how much we try to excuse, justify, or distract ourselves, that thing remains as a kind of barricade between us and our good Jesus. Sorrow of soul is the natural result, and this seems to be what was taking place in this young man’s heart.

 We were created to enjoy an unhindered communion with God, though the path to that through our spiritual darkness is long and difficult. If we must mourn in this life, let it be over our present fallen condition, tempered with hope in God’s mercy and healing. Let us not needlessly add to our sorrow by any stubborn refusal to follow Christ Jesus and obey Him. If we will be careful to do what is right, one day our mourning will be turned into joy, our tears into laughter. We can trust the good Christ Jesus, our God, to save us and have mercy upon us.

To the glory of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

 

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

No. What I am saying is that the Pope has no business playing God.

How is recognizing someone is a saint playing God?

If you can recognize someone is a saint, why can't others?

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

46 minutes ago, hmbld said:

Another example of sidestepping what is being shown to you.  You have demonstrated that you have very high intelligence, so when you deliberately sidestep and make others run in circles I can only conclude that you know you don't have scripture to stand on when defending rcc practices/traditions.

I am trying to find out what he or she intended by including that scripture, and if he or she misconstrued what was said.

 

 

29 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

Theres a  liitle flower,

Did you read the full chapter of Matthew 19 and 20?

Once again you come at me by asking me if Christ Jesus was good?

If you don't know that by now, may God help you and also help you understand Matthew 19 and 20 in its completeness .

“Why do you call me good? Only God is good.” This is what our Lord Jesus said to the wealthy young man in. Matthew 19:16-26

Why did our Lord say this? Was He denying His inherent deity as the Son of God? I recall a conversation I once had with a Jehovah’s Witness at my front door who tried to use this verse as “proof” that Jesus couldn’t possibly be God. Talking to me as if I were a slow-witted child he asked, “Now, you believe that God is good, right?” Yes, I agreed, God is good. “That’s right!” he said. “And so if God is good and Jesus said ‘don’t call Me good’ then how can Jesus be God?”

Jesus didn’t say, “Don’t call Me good” but instead had carefully asked the young man, “Why do you call Me good?” I then asked him if he thought it was right or wrong to call Jesus good. He wasn’t sure what to say, so I continued, “I think we would both have to agree that Jesus is good. That’s why mournful sinners were drawn to Him, that’s why righteous people loved Him, that’s why even His enemies were forced to invent false charges against Him at His trial. We can’t even say that Jesus was relatively good in comparison to the rest of humanity, because the scriptures testify that there was absolutely no sin or unrighteousness in Him whatsoever. Jesus was and is entirely and completely good, with a goodness utterly indistinguishable from God’s goodness.”

I then concluded, “If Jesus is undeniably good, and we both agree that only God is good, then who must this Jesus be?”

Well I’m sorry to say that the unhappy man at my doorstep lost interest in our discussion after this and soon left. But returning the gospel in Matthew 19, we can see that Christ Jesus was by no means denying His deity to the rich young man, or His goodness. If anything, He was confirming it. Reading this verse correctly we can see that our Lord was simply trying to make this man slow down and put the pieces of the puzzle together as to who this “good Jesus” must truly be.

And why would He do that in this particular case? There were many people who came to Christ Jesus, mostly asking for healing, and He usually healed them with only a brief word about the importance of faith or of living without sin. But here Christ Jesus spoke of much more, granting a sort of “mini-Theophany” by way of a subtle revelation of His divinity. Why did He do this? The answer might be found in the fact that this young man’s request was different from anyone else’s. He came, seeking not physical healing, but salvation.

“What good thing must I do to inherit eternal life?” Please notice the wisdom in our Lord’s response. He first spoke of the need to follow the commandments of God, or in other words, of the necessity to not bring further harm to one’s soul by doing those things which are contrary to eternal life. Many Christians today have a rather cavalier attitude about sin, feeling that as long as they are forgiven their actions are more or less irrelevant. But the effects of sin aren’t marked on some scoreboard in heaven, but upon our souls. Righteousness matters, and the commandments of God are important to us, or else Jesus wouldn’t have said so.

Now this young man claimed to have kept all the commandments from his youth. This was apparently not a false boast, for we are told in Mark’s account that Jesus looked upon him and loved him when he said this. From Matthew’s gospel we can see that the young man was even further blessed to recognize that the commandments alone were not enough to save him, and so he asked with urgency, “What do I still lack?”

Have you ever thought to ask God, “Lord, what do I still lack?” Most of us would rather tell God what we think is missing from our lives, and be miserable until He gives it to us. But what a bold thing it is to ask, “Lord, what do I still lack?” We can begin to see why Jesus loved this man. And indeed, here was a fellow about as ready as any person could be to receive the answer from Jesus Christ as to what he needed to gain eternal life.

And Christ Jesus told him, “One thing you lack. Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven. And come, take up the cross, and follow Me”. At this command, the man became sad and went away grieving, for he had great possessions.

Our Lord knew He was asking a difficult and unexpected thing of this young man. That is why He first graciously allowed the man a certain spiritual insight into His divine authority. “It is not simply your ‘good teacher’ asking this of you; it is your good God. Follow Me in both life and death, and you will live in My kingdom forever.” The inescapable tragedy of this story is that even with this kind and wonderful revelation, the man still turned his back on Christ Jesus and walked away.

Before we are tempted to think that Christ Jesus was too harsh, notice that the young man didn’t go away angry or offended. He went away grieving. You see, when people think they are being treated unfairly they generally get mad. But when they are asked to do what they know is right, but find that they are unwilling to make the sacrifice, their souls are filled with sorrow.

This is a grief that many Christians know all too well. There may be some impediment in our lives that we know Christ has asked us to give up, to leave behind, or to walk away from that we might follow Him in freedom. Or perhaps there is some good thing He has asked us to do that we are simply unwilling to obey. No matter how much we try to excuse, justify, or distract ourselves, that thing remains as a kind of barricade between us and our good Jesus. Sorrow of soul is the natural result, and this seems to be what was taking place in this young man’s heart.

 We were created to enjoy an unhindered communion with God, though the path to that through our spiritual darkness is long and difficult. If we must mourn in this life, let it be over our present fallen condition, tempered with hope in God’s mercy and healing. Let us not needlessly add to our sorrow by any stubborn refusal to follow Jesus and obey Him. If we will be careful to do what is right, one day our mourning will be turned into joy, our tears into laughter. We can trust the good Jesus, our God, to save us and have mercy upon us.

To the glory of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

 

    I am glad to find we agree  

 

 

[1to3]

I am glad you agree that Christ Jesus is good  there is a littler flower,

even satan acknowledged who Christ Jesus is,

but keeping to the original topic, unless you have had a change of heart,

No, we definitely do not agree.

I see deception at work here, so I have said my peace, it is found in my already given replies.

 

To the glory of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, 1to3 said:

I am glad you agree that Christ Jesus is good  there is a littler flower,

even satan acknowledged who Christ Jesus is,

but keeping to the original topic, unless you have had a change of heart,

No, we definitely do not agree.

I see deception at work here, so I have said my peace, it is found in my already given replies.

 

To the glory of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

What I see is misunderstanding.

    

[thereselittleflower]

19 minutes ago, Davida said:

There are no examples of man recognized saints in the Bible. All born again believers are referred to as saints.

 

ok

All born again believers are saints.

Can you tell who is born again and who isn't?