Who makes sinners into saints?

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎24‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 2:33 AM, thereselittleflower said:

I don't agree with your pov I'm sorry.

 

Well as a convert, and someone who has I assume never visited other churches in other countries ,your experience is limited . And in my outline ,it was a personal expression ,not only for you but for readers of this site .  It was not meant to be accepted as a 'doctrine' ,but for consideration by those who are not fixed rigidly in their assumptions ,  having been given the gift of discernment .  I have just seen a mass where all of the participants were 'kissing ' a statue ' of the 'baby Jesus , and  another where after a lovely holy ceremony, a black African woman started to 'holer' and shake her body to some pagan beating of drums . And you don't think we need to change anything .   

The first one is a 'relic ' of an ancient paganism , and the  later a P.C nonsense, which is destroying what is the best of the R.C.C., it's reverent and Holy music , and respect for the holiness of God ,in not bringing pagan music into the Church .   

Because it is so vast ,all sorts of things are let to pass , so there is a need to go back to smaller churches ,and less political correctness     ; more rigour mentally  , which comes over time with learning and discussing the word of God together  . Not  being goats  , who need men to tell us what to think .  That is the function of the Holy Spirit

 

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, Thallasa said:

Well as a convert, and someone who has I assume never visited other churches in other countries ,your experience is limited . And in my outline ,it was a personal expression ,not only for you but for readers of this site .  It was not meant to be accepted as a 'doctrine' ,but for consideration by those who are not fixed rigidly in their assumptions ,  having been given the gift of discernment .  I have just seen a mass where all of the participants were 'kissing ' a statue ' of the 'baby Jesus , and  another where after a lovely holy ceremony, a black African woman started to 'holer' and shake her body to some pagan beating of drums . And you don't think we need to change anything .   

The first one is a 'relic ' of an ancient paganism , and the  later a P.C nonsense, which is destroying what is the best of the R.C.C., it's reverent and Holy music , and respect for the holiness of God ,in not bringing pagan music into the Church .   

Because it is so vast ,all sorts of things are let to pass , so there is a need to go back to smaller churches ,and less political correctness     ; more rigour mentally  , which comes over time with learning and discussing the word of God together  . Not  being goats  , who need men to tell us what to think .  That is the function of the Holy Spirit

 

Thallasa, I never said that individuals or groups do not practice their faith in error.   That has happened since the beginning of christianity.

Unfortunately, often there is a difference between the actual teachings of the Church and how individuals or groups perceive them and implement them or, frankly, disregard them.   I won't defend that.   But I think if what you suggest as the solution at the very end of your post actually worked, we would have seen it work already over the last 500 years in Protestantism, and there would not be tens of thousands of divisions, the number of which only continues to grow. We would have seen great unity, not great fracturing.     

 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings thereselittleflower

    I think you may be misunderstanding the point that others are trying to make ,,,,,,,Little Flower,no one is claiming to be able to look into anyones heart or to say that their relationship & "standing" with God does not qualfy or categorize then as a"saint" ,,,,what they are saying is a heresy is the false doctrine that a person be required to perform 3 recognized(by the RCC)tio receive the "title" SAINT,,,,,,,,the person may very well have been a saint but the people & their man-made traditions & customs are not found in Gods Truth,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

   All one needs to do is be a Sinner Saved by the Blood of Jesus,,,,in other words,as it has been said repeatedly,,,,,,,,,,Jesus does it,turns Sinners into Saints,,,,,,,,,period!  The term "believer" & "saint" can be interchangeble because all believers are the 'saints":,,,,,perhaps Christopher was a saint,perhaps Jude was a saint,,,,& so on but they certainly did not need to perform any miracle or be recognized by any person to qualfy as though it is some kind of prestigious award ,,,,,,,,,the folks that teach this are the heretics,,,,,,,,,,,,,is is false teaching

   Also,how can an angel ever be compared to a person,,,,yes,they are "Holy"but they are not saints,if they were then you would find that in Gods Word & it is not ,,,,in fact the Word of God is very clear on that angels should not be worshipped or glorified in any way ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

  Personally I don't believe in bashing anyones religious preferences or denominations because it is not necessary & many Catholics,Lutherans,Methodists etc   are Saved,,,,,,they fall under the "whosoever" too,no exclusions

Quote

King James Bible
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

                                                                                                                                                   John 3:36

I just saw your frustration & I hope to clear things up a bit,,,,,,,,in Jesus name,,,,,,,I really hope I helped                With love-in Christ,Kwik

[thereselittleflower]

On 12/24/2015 at 5:09 AM, manuelf324 said:

You're correct no man knows the heart of Man but God. Canonization is catholicism's way of Man attaining  God hood. It's called humanism which is the worldwide religion preparing us to worship the coming antichrist. Man cannot save himself it can only be done through the blood of Jesus Christ. Now after being canonized (made God by man's good work) A Catholic saint can repent and truly be saved after he sees the error of his ways. A good topic to research is Jesuit spiritual exercises which is the core of humanism. 

I have no idea where you are coming up with this balderdash.   Sainthood is not God hood.  Man does not save himself.   One who is canonized has already died, so how can one who is dead repent and be saved after death?

Everything you said above is false.

 

[manuelf324]

Actually if you actually read what I said instead of skimming through it you would know I agree with you fully

The only mistake I made  is canonization is after death your correct . My point is those who worshipped man(canonized by man)  are in hell because they rejected Christ I  confused canonization with Catholic priesthood. All Catholic priests believe they can be Christ in the flesh just like the Pope believes he is Christ. 

It's in their catechism  I apologize for the confusion 

God bless 

 

 

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

7 minutes ago, manuelf324 said:

Actually if you actually read what I said instead of skimming through it you would know I agree with you fully

The only mistake I made  is canonization is after death your correct . My point is those who worshipped man(canonized by man)  are in hell because they rejected Christ I  confused canonization with Catholic priesthood. All Catholic priests believe they can be Christ in the flesh just like the Pope believes he is Christ. 

It's in their catechism  I apologize for the confusion 

God bless 

 

 

 

 

 

No one worships man.

You err not understanding the subject matter very well.  One can read and not understand what they are reading.

 

 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings manuelf324

    I am not doubting that these are things you have heard or read but it is not so,,,,,I have had many years of study in the RCC and I can tell you that priests do not think they are Jesus & neither does the pope,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,There are many false teachings within the RCC but that is not one of them and personally I do not care to categorize "Catholics" & say "they " believe this or that ,,,,people are individuals & each Christian can have(should have) a very individual ,intimate & personal relationship with Jesus ,,,,,,,,,,lets not post any hearsay because something was on the internet ,a blog or whatever,,,,,,,,,

   I had 12 years of catechism & studied the catholic missile,that is not what is taught,,,,,,,,,,I am not defending RCC teachings but I do not want to see false allegations against them either,,,,,,,,let us all try to keep our opinions & assumptions clear and not refer to anything we do not know as a fact,okay?

    There is no reason to be defensive about any "religion" or even about our Faith,,,,,,,,,,let us provoke jealousy in others by our deeds & actions or our kind words,,,,,,,,canonization is a Tradition of men ,,,,this is Truth,it is only found in the Catholic Bible & Missile,,,,,,,,,,,I believe we have established Gods Truth here ,,,no one,no person can "make" a saint,,,,,,,believers ARE saints,,,,,,Gods Grace changes the sinner into the saint ,by our FAITH in the knowledge of WHO our Savior is    Love,Kwik

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings manuelf324

    I am not doubting that these are things you have heard or read but it is not so,,,,,I have had many years of study in the RCC and I can tell you that priests do not think they are Jesus & neither does the pope,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,There are many false teachings within the RCC but that is not one of them and personally I do not care to categorize "Catholics" & say "they " believe this or that ,,,,people are individuals & each Christian can have(should have) a very individual ,intimate & personal relationship with Jesus ,,,,,,,,,,lets not post any hearsay because something was on the internet ,a blog or whatever,,,,,,,,,

   I had 12 years of catechism & studied the catholic missile,that is not what is taught,,,,,,,,,,I am not defending RCC teachings but I do not want to see false allegations against them either,,,,,,,,let us all try to keep our opinions & assumptions clear and not refer to anything we do not know as a fact,okay?

    There is no reason to be defensive about any "religion" or even about our Faith,,,,,,,,,,let us provoke jealousy in others by our deeds & actions or our kind words,,,,,,,,canonization is a Tradition of men ,,,,this is Truth,it is only found in the Catholic Bible & Missile,,,,,,,,,,,I believe we have established Gods Truth here ,,,no one,no person can "make" a saint,,,,,,,believers ARE saints,,,,,,Gods Grace changes the sinner into the saint ,by our FAITH in the knowledge of WHO our Savior is    Love,Kwik

Thank you kwikphilly

And you are absolutely, 100% right - no one, no person can "make" a saint.   All that can be done by man is to recognize them.

 

[Ezra]

26 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

Thank you kwikphilly

And you are absolutely, 100% right - no one, no person can "make" a saint.   All that can be done by man is to recognize them.

If you really believe this then you should publicly denounce the doctrine of canonization as held by the RCC.

[thereselittleflower]

1 minute ago, Ezra said:

If you really believe this then you should publicly denounce the doctrine of canonization as held by the RCC.

Why?

Canonization is exactly that - recognizing these people were indeed saints.