To Be, Or Not To Be (?)

[RevelationWriter]

- Trinitarians believe Jesus is Incarnate.

But the only true case I see for Incarnation was when

Jesus Himself said John the baptist was Elijah who was to come. - Matt.11:14

- Jesus went on to even ask His disciples who men say He, The Son Of Man is.

Well the men must have believed in Incarnation too for they said Jesus The Son Of Man was

John the baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah, or one of the Prophets. - Matt.16:14

They could not have believed that Jesus was the Reincarnation of John the Baptist being they knew both John & Jesus to have lived at the same time. 

- Would anyone like to discuss this further with me? Thanks.

 

[FresnoJoe]

9 hours ago, RevelationWriter said:

- Trinitarians believe Jesus is Incarnate.

But the only true case I see for Incarnation was when

Jesus Himself said John the baptist was Elijah who was to come. - Matt.11:14

- Jesus went on to even ask His disciples who men say He, The Son Of Man is.

Well the men must have believed in Incarnation too for they said Jesus The Son Of Man was

John the baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah, or one of the Prophets. - Matt.16:14

They could not have believed that Jesus was the Reincarnation of John the Baptist being they knew both John & Jesus to have lived at the same time. 

- Would anyone like to discuss this further with me? Thanks.

Forever

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5

LORD

For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. Isaiah 54:5

Forever

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 1 John 5:20

Love, Your Brother Joe

[RevelationWriter]

Jesus said, "And This Is Eternal Life To Know You The Only True God, And Jesus Christ Whom You Sent." - John 17

- Jesus didn't say His Father was the Only God. Jesus said His Father is 'The Only TRUE God'.

The word true means genuine, or pattern.

Which makes sense seeing Jesus told the Jews in their law that they were gods. - John 10:34

Seeing God is "the God of gods, The Lord God of gods" - Josh.22:22

Therefore I have no trouble believing Jesus is god too. But Jesus is not "The Only True God" as Jesus said His Father is.

[Riverwalker]

You have to look hard to find places where Jesus claims to be God

 

for He did not come to be God, He did not live as God

 

He came to be man, and live as man, including submitting Himself to the Father

 

Phil 2: ⁵ Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, ⁶ who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, ⁷ but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. ⁸ And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

 

Jesus is God, who humbled himself to be man, who submitted Himself to the Father and humbled Himself to die a curse death

to Claim his diety in the amidst of this would be counter productive.  But on occasion He gave Hints

John 8:58 “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

and the jews knew exactly what He was saying because tyhey took up stones to stone Him for blasephemy

 

John 14:7

[ The Father Revealed ] “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

 

 

John 10:30

I and My Father are one.”

 

 

 

And it is no coincidence that all of these references from Jesus are in the Gospel of John...for it is John who reveals the true nature of Christ to the Christian

 

John 1:1

 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ² He was in the beginning with God. ³ All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. ⁴ In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

 

¹⁴ And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

It is a fundamental and required belief to be Christian. That Jesus is God incarnate.  But the idea that God himself would come and be a man, was foreign to them.  In their mind should they stand before God, they would wilt. When the looked at Jesus they saw a natural man so they were looking for a ntural explanation......of which there was none, for this was a supernatural event

 

And in the midst of all the others trying to figure this out Peter cracks off with “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Matthew 16;16

 

to which Jesus answers: ¹⁷ Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

 

 

 

so talk of incarnation is just man attempt to understand that which had to be revealed by God

 

 

Edited January 1, 2016 by Riverwalker

[post]

He taught in parables, so that those who were blinded and made deaf would remain blind and deaf, and those to whom it was given to understand, would understand. 

when Peter confessed that He is the Messiah, He told him that 'flesh and blood didn't reveal this' but that the Father did. 

in the same way, i believe, we to whom it is given to know Him, know that He is God - and those whom God has chosen to harden, do not see it or hear it. 

[Righttruth]

John 20:17    Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Therefore, incarnation/manifestation is not fully God. Jesus also claimed that Father is greater than him!

[angels4u]

1 John 1:22

Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ?

This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father

 

[RevelationWriter]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 11:23 AM, Riverwalker said:

You have to look hard to find places where Jesus claims to be God

 

for He did not come to be God, He did not live as God

 

He came to be man, and live as man, including submitting Himself to the Father

 

Phil 2: ⁵ Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, ⁶ who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, ⁷ but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. ⁸ And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

 

Jesus is God, who humbled himself to be man, who submitted Himself to the Father and humbled Himself to die a curse death

to Claim his diety in the amidst of this would be counter productive.  But on occasion He gave Hints

John 8:58 “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

and the jews knew exactly what He was saying because tyhey took up stones to stone Him for blasephemy

 

John 14:7

[ The Father Revealed ] “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

 

 

John 10:30

I and My Father are one.”

 

 

 

And it is no coincidence that all of these references from Jesus are in the Gospel of John...for it is John who reveals the true nature of Christ to the Christian

 

John 1:1

 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ² He was in the beginning with God. ³ All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. ⁴ In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

 

¹⁴ And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

It is a fundamental and required belief to be Christian. That Jesus is God incarnate.  But the idea that God himself would come and be a man, was foreign to them.  In their mind should they stand before God, they would wilt. When the looked at Jesus they saw a natural man so they were looking for a ntural explanation......of which there was none, for this was a supernatural event

 

And in the midst of all the others trying to figure this out Peter cracks off with “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Matthew 16;16

 

to which Jesus answers: ¹⁷ Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

 

 

 

so talk of incarnation is just man attempt to understand that which had to be revealed by God

 

 

- In The Dead Sea Scrolls God told Moses to tell the people: "I am THAT I am" sent you.  Jesus didn't say, 'I am THAT I am".

The Word Of God which was with God before The Word Became flesh?  Yes was in fact truly before Abraham was.

God Who wanted to be understood as "I am THAT I am,  

God is many things...such as "Father Of Lights", "God of gods", "a consuming fire" etc.  So God saying "I am THAT I am" ?  Jesus is not.

The Word that WAS with God and WAS God which God Spoke things into exist with in Genesis? The Word that WAs God with Him; was not His Son then.

Jesus is not the incarnation of God Himself in the flesh.

"The Word Became Flesh" - God did not become Jesus.

Jesus being equal with God does not make Jesus 'The ONLY TRUE God'.

 

Jesus being equal with God makes Jesus a god as Jesus told the Jews they were gods. For God is "The God of gods"

Jesus is "The Only Begotten god" - Greek

Yes, we are to honor the Son just as we honor the Father. Because The Father gave The Son all authority. (John 5:23)

We are not to honor God as coming in the flesh as Jesus. Therefore honoring Jesus as God Himself.

- Of course they would know The Father and have seen Him when they saw Jesus

Being, Jesus is in the form of God; saying He came forth from God to show them The Father.

Jesus didn't come to show them that He was The Father but to show them The Father.

Jesus said, I am In The Father And The Father is IN Me. So of course The Father could speak by His Word, that Became Flesh.

If you have seen Him you have seen The Father. After all Jesus came forth from God to show them The Father.

Being in the form of man? The word Man is also scripturally a reference to Angels as well.

After all God said to the Angels, let us make Man in our Image.

 

- So there is more truth to the scriptures to consider than just what Trinitarians try to prove in some scriptures by their doctrine.

Trinitarians teach Christianity is a required fundamental belief in their 3D-imensional  doctrine that Jesus is God incarnate.

But that's not what Jesus taught His disciples nor what they taught either. -

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2016 by RevelationWriter

[RevelationWriter]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 0:00 PM, post said:

He taught in parables, so that those who were blinded and made deaf would remain blind and deaf, and those to whom it was given to understand, would understand. 

when Peter confessed that He is the Messiah, He told him that 'flesh and blood didn't reveal this' but that the Father did. 

in the same way, i believe, we to whom it is given to know Him, know that He is God - and those whom God has chosen to harden, do not see it or hear it. 

Jesus is a god-like because He is The Son of God. Not because He is God Himself.

We are gods too because we are sons of God.

Jesus told the Jews they were gods.

"God of gods, The Lord God of gods" - Old Testament

I ask God once what does it mean then that I am a god?

He said, it simply means I am Immortal like Him.

 

 

[post]

who is the one the Jews pierced?