Old Covenant vs New Covenant

[SINNERSAVED]

4 hours ago, Ezra said:

As already mentioned, this passage applies to a future period and is related to Israel on earth during and after the Millennium. So you are misapplying Scripture, while ignoring the Scriptures which pertain to the Church Age.

really , how is that , ??

[SINNERSAVED]

2 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Isaiah 66 never mentions food. It does mention a bunch of other things the children of Israel doing which were against the law. One mention is of idols, and another is about an improper sacrifice. Although they were sacrificing clean animals, they were doing it out of habit rather then with their hearts into it, so the effect would be for nothing, or as if they were sacrificing a pig. But, nothing about food. 

While clean animals for sacrifice are almost identitical to animals which are clean for food, they are not the same. Some animal categories which might be clean for food are not because that animal is designated for sacrifice, so in that case a calf would not be clean for food, but would be clean for sacrifice. Isaiah 66 only discusses sacrifices and a bunch of other things.

okay here you have it , so everyone can see this clear, KJV version, it is about a abomination, ?and swines flesh in the mouth ?

Isaiah 66:15   For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

  Isaiah 66:16   For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

  Isaiah 66:17   They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
 

[Qnts2]

5 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

okay here you have it , so everyone can see this clear, KJV version, it is about a abomination, ?and swines flesh in the mouth ?

Isaiah 66:15   For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

  Isaiah 66:16   For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

  Isaiah 66:17   They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
 

Go back in the verses.

Isaiah 66:3 “But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man;
He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck;
He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood;
He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol.
As they have chosen their own ways,
And their soul delights in their abominations,
⁴ So I will choose their punishments
And will bring on them what they dread.
Because I called, but no one answered;
I spoke, but they did not listen.
And they did evil in My sight
And chose that in which I did not delight.”

In the Mosaic law, there is no punishment for eating non-Kosher food. The passages you quote are the punishment for all that they had done as they were acting double minded. So, if a Jewish person makes a sacrifice out of routine, without the heart for God, even though they make a proper grain offering, it is not better then sacrificing pig blood. A Jewish person who goes through the sanctification rights, while hiding from others because they are eating an unclean mouse, is not sanctified because their heart is not in it.

[SINNERSAVED]

7 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Go back in the verses.

Isaiah 66:3 “But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man;
He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck;
He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood;
He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol.
As they have chosen their own ways,
And their soul delights in their abominations,
⁴ So I will choose their punishments
And will bring on them what they dread.
Because I called, but no one answered;
I spoke, but they did not listen.
And they did evil in My sight
And chose that in which I did not delight.”

In the Mosaic law, there is no punishment for eating non-Kosher food. The passages you quote are the punishment for all that they had done as they were acting double minded. So, if a Jewish person makes a sacrifice out of routine, without the heart for God, even though they make a proper grain offering, it is not better then sacrificing pig blood. A Jewish person who goes through the sanctification rights, while hiding from others because they are eating an unclean mouse, is not sanctified because their heart is not in it.

so you don't think that eating swines flesh or a mouse has nothing to do with what God hates , ?I think he is saying this and there is no other way to interpret this , if it is clear to understand , if it be a jew or gentile, swine flesh and mouse is not to be placed in your mouth that is what I read and what I see, and this is to come, it has not happened yet , from what I understand , it to be saying, am I wrong?

[Ezra]

28 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

really , how is that , ??

That's because you did not take the time to properly study Isaiah 66. So here is what it reveals to us (verses 12-24):

THE FUTURE OF ISRAEL AFTER THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST

PEACE TO ISRAEL AND SUBMISSION OF THE GENTILES

12, For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.

JERUSALEM A SOURCE OF COMFORT

13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

ENEMIES JUDGED, GOD’S SERVANTS BLESSED

14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.

THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST

15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

ARMAGEDDON

16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

JEWISH HYPOCRITES TO BE DESTROYED

17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

THE JUDGMENT OF ALL NATIONS

18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

CHRIST’S GLORY TO BE DECLARED AMONG THE GENTILES

19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow,to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

JERUSALEM THE CENTRE OF WORSHIP ON EARTH

20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

THE LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD RESTORED

21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

REDEEMED ISRAEL TO REMAIN ETERNAL

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

JERUSALEM THE CENTRE OF WORSHIP ON EARTH

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

ETERNAL HELL FOR SINNERS

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

[other one]

2 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

okay here you have it , so everyone can see this clear, KJV version, it is about a abomination, ?and swines flesh in the mouth ?

Isaiah 66:15   For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

  Isaiah 66:16   For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

  Isaiah 66:17   They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
 

that does not say that eating swine is an abomination....     the term and the abomination is something else to eat.   I'll give you that it does say not to eat swine, but it is not saying swine are an, or the abomination.

but as I have tried to get you to understand, Jesus changed all that when he came.

[Qnts2]

11 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

so you don't think that eating swines flesh or a mouse has nothing to do with what God hates , ?I think he is saying this and there is no other way to interpret this , if it is clear to understand , if it be a jew or gentile, swine flesh and mouse is not to be placed in your mouth that is what I read and what I see, and this is to come, it has not happened yet , from what I understand , it to be saying, am I wrong?

No, I don't. The issue was sanctification rituals while eating mouse in hiding (behind a tree). The entire list of things which they did wrong had to do with double mindedness. The entire context is important. No where in scripture does it call eating unclean things an abomination. Scripture is very specific. (By the way, roasted mouse was a popular food among pagan cultures. It was considered a delicacy and was often consumed during pagan celebrations right up to Roman times. Pigs were also central in pagan worship, using the blood as a sacrifice to idols.) So the hint is the combination of pig and mouse, both used in pagan worship.  If an animal which falls into the clean for food category is used in pagan worship, that renders the clean animal unclean. How can a person go thru sanctification rituals for God, while consuming a pagan related delicacies in secret during the biblical ritual?  That is double minded. While doing something in obedience to God and doing the opposite at the same time in hiding. It is not about Kosher food

 

[SINNERSAVED]

1 hour ago, Qnts2 said:

No, I don't. The issue was sanctification rituals while eating mouse in hiding (behind a tree). The entire list of things which they did wrong had to do with double mindedness. The entire context is important. No where in scripture does it call eating unclean things an abomination. Scripture is very specific. (By the way, roasted mouse was a popular food among pagan cultures. It was considered a delicacy and was often consumed during pagan celebrations right up to Roman times. Pigs were also central in pagan worship, using the blood as a sacrifice to idols.) So the hint is the combination of pig and mouse, both used in pagan worship.  If an animal which falls into the clean for food category is used in pagan worship, that renders the clean animal unclean. How can a person go thru sanctification rituals for God, while consuming a pagan related delicacies in secret during the biblical ritual?  That is double minded. While doing something in obedience to God and doing the opposite at the same time in hiding. It is not about Kosher food

 

okay let me know if I am understanding you , you said this mouse and swines flesh was used in pagan rituals and worship and is good for them, but we are not to call it unclean and that God never said in the scripture I gave , if it be real or a example to what he is saying  a thing that he don't agree with ,

I am saying if God is talking about it and it is what God hates how am I not understanding what is being said, , I am wanting to understand your view, and what does this really mean?

[Qnts2]

51 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

okay let me know if I am understanding you , you said this mouse and swines flesh was used in pagan rituals and worship and is good for them, but we are not to call it unclean and that God never said in the scripture I gave , if it be real or a example to what he is saying  a thing that he don't agree with ,

I am saying if God is talking about it and it is what God hates how am I not understanding what is being said, , I am wanting to understand your view, and what does this really mean?

God hates double mindedness. Which is the root of all the examples. Also, eating any animal which was used in pagan sacrifices is unclean, but involvement in the worship of pagan gods is an abomination. All worship of pagan gods is an abomination, including eating anything sacrificed to idols, making a graven image, magic and divination are idolatrous and abominations. All things involved in worship of idols are abominations. So if a cow is used in the worship of a pagan idol, the cow is unclean. And to consume that cow would be an abomination. 

When David ate the showbread, since David was not a priest and only Priest could eat the showbread, the showbread was unclean for David to eat. The showbread was not unclean in itself, and it was clean for the Priests to eat. The reason David was allowed to eat the showbread was extreme hunger and the welfare of people is a higher law. So, if a Jewish person was in need of food, and the only food available was camel meat, the higher law says that one may eat camel meat for health and well being. The person doing sanctification rituals, often done to either enter the assembly in general or enter the assembly in the Temple, one does not hide during the ritual to secretly eat something sacrificed to idols.

Clean and unclean are ritual terms. A donkey is unclean for food and sacrifice, but is a useful animal for almost all other purposes and many families owned and raised donkeys. Donkey hide is clean for clothing. Wool combined with linen is not clean for clothing. Wool is clean for clothing and linen is clean for clothing but the combination is not clean for clothing. Jesus rode a donkey. So, ritually unclean depends on the use or situation. A first born calf is clean for sacrifice but unclean for food. A second born calf is clean for sacrifice and clean for food. An animal which died of itself is unclean for food, but a Jewish family can sell it to a Gentile for food. Should a Jewish person eat an animal which died of itself, the Jewish person is unclean until sunset. Contacting a dead animal renders a Jewish person unclean until sunset. Touching water which is in contact with a dead animal renders a Jewish person unclean until sunset. Grain which has contacted water which has contacted a dead animal is unclean, even though grain is almost always clean except for that situation, and except during Passover.

 

[SINNERSAVED]

5 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

God hates double mindedness. Which is the root of all the examples. Also, eating any animal which was used in pagan sacrifices is unclean, but involvement in the worship of pagan gods is an abomination. All worship of pagan gods is an abomination, including eating anything sacrificed to idols, making a graven image, magic and divination are idolatrous and abominations. All things involved in worship of idols are abominations. So if a cow is used in the worship of a pagan idol, the cow is unclean. And to consume that cow would be an abomination. 

When David ate the showbread, since David was not a priest and only Priest could eat the showbread, the showbread was unclean for David to eat. The showbread was not unclean in itself, and it was clean for the Priests to eat. The reason David was allowed to eat the showbread was extreme hunger and the welfare of people is a higher law. So, if a Jewish person was in need of food, and the only food available was camel meat, the higher law says that one may eat camel meat for health and well being. The person doing sanctification rituals, often done to either enter the assembly in general or enter the assembly in the Temple, one does not hide during the ritual to secretly eat something sacrificed to idols.

Clean and unclean are ritual terms. A donkey is unclean for food and sacrifice, but is a useful animal for almost all other purposes and many families owned and raised donkeys. Donkey hide is clean for clothing. Wool combined with linen is not clean for clothing. Wool is clean for clothing and linen is clean for clothing but the combination is not clean for clothing. Jesus rode a donkey. So, ritually unclean depends on the use or situation. A first born calf is clean for sacrifice but unclean for food. A second born calf is clean for sacrifice and clean for food. An animal which died of itself is unclean for food, but a Jewish family can sell it to a Gentile for food. Should a Jewish person eat an animal which died of itself, the Jewish person is unclean until sunset. Contacting a dead animal renders a Jewish person unclean until sunset. Touching water which is in contact with a dead animal renders a Jewish person unclean until sunset. Grain which has contacted water which has contacted a dead animal is unclean, even though grain is almost always clean except for that situation, and except during Passover.

 

that is very interesting thank you for that , I will note this , , but would not anything that is started and called unclean from the start be unclean today , by the word of God ? I totally understand and see what you wrote , but I want to focus on this for , I believe if we are not placing any covenants or laws or anything other then Gods word in the bible of what he considered to be unclean, would  still be unclean today , if we are following Gods word for Gods word, for the bible is the inspired word of God, and I will not rest until we have clearly addressed this , for many times, scripture and content can be mis understood, thank you and I am still open to hear more views and advise on this , thank you