Old Covenant vs New Covenant

[Shar]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

 

 

 

 

 

Ezra, I am not sure that what you said to SinnerSaved is dogmatically correct.  I think there is confusion around the whole dietary laws by reading these posts on each person's view.  When Jesus said that "all foods are clean", he was responding to the Pharisees tradition that expected His disciples to wash their hands before eating or the food would be considered unclean.  It was accurate for Jesus to say then,  "all food is clean, because He was only speaking about what G-d already designated as food.  Unclean animals were not designated as food.

So, the question has been asked.  Where did G-d suddenly designate unclean animals as food?  If we fall back to the vision of Peter, visions in the Bible were symbolic.  The Pharaoh's vision of the fat and thin cows, was not literal, but a symbol of the true meaning that there was to be 7 years of plenty and 7 years of famine.  Peter's vision had to do with the reference to Gentiles.  Gentiles were considered unclean and even referred to as dogs (an unclean animal).  Henceforth, Peter then goes to Cornelius's house, to tell this Gentile about the good news.

Even Jesus' reply to the Gentile woman, kneeling before him and asking for help, was "He came for the lost sheep of Israel and it was not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs."  He was quite familiar with this designation given to the Gentiles.  However, because of her great faith, He healed her daughter of demon possession.

So, while each view tosses back and forth various arguments.  There are scriptures to support SinnerSaved's position, and I do not think because we may not agree with one another on matters that can be confusing in Scripture that one should accuse others of false doctrine.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Shar

[Ezra]

5 minutes ago, Shar said:

here are scriptures to support SinnerSaved's position, and I do not think because we may not agree with one another on matters that can be confusing in Scripture that one should accuse others of false doctrine.

When anyone brings a teaching which contradicts New Testament truth, that is false doctrine. The New Testament is there for a reason, and Christians who insist on going back to the Old Covenant are saying (internally) "God has made a mistake, but I am going to fix it".  That is how we end up with cults.  So no matter if you wish to follow the dietary laws of Moses, Scripture (not my opinion) tells you that ALL MEATS are clean. I already posted the Scriptures (which you ignored) so here they are again:

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. (1 Tim 4:1-6).

Please note verse 4. Every creature means EVERY CREATURE, and this corresponds to Genesis 9:3,4 which says “every moving thing:

Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Are these the words of God, or the words of men?  If they are the words of God, they should be believed and applied without argument. Those who prefer dietary restrictions are free to keep them. But they dare not claim that those restrictions have NOT been removed.

[SINNERSAVED]

26 minutes ago, Shar said:

Ezra, I am not sure that what you said to SinnerSaved is dogmatically correct.  I think there is confusion around the whole dietary laws by reading these posts on each person's view.  When Jesus said that "all foods are clean", he was responding to the Pharisees tradition that expected His disciples to wash their hands before eating or the food would be considered unclean.  It was accurate for Jesus to say then,  "all food is clean, because He was only speaking about what G-d already designated as food.  Unclean animals were not designated as food.

So, the question has been asked.  Where did G-d suddenly designate unclean animals as food?  If we fall back to the vision of Peter, visions in the Bible were symbolic.  The Pharaoh's vision of the fat and thin cows, was not literal, but a symbol of the true meaning that there was to be 7 years of plenty and 7 years of famine.  Peter's vision had to do with the reference to Gentiles.  Gentiles were considered unclean and even referred to as dogs (an unclean animal).  Henceforth, Peter then goes to Cornelius's house, to tell this Gentile about the good news.

Even Jesus' reply to the Gentile woman, kneeling before him and asking for help, was "He came for the lost sheep of Israel and it was not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs."  He was quite familiar with this designation given to the Gentiles.  However, because of her great faith, He healed her daughter of demon possession.

So, while each view tosses back and forth various arguments.  There are scriptures to support SinnerSaved's position, and I do not think because we may not agree with one another on matters that can be confusing in Scripture that one should accuse others of false doctrine.

thank you  Shar for that support and definition,  for I have to say there is a few people here that think they are all about the truth and the truth is not in them, and then you have opposition and it is , false doctrine as you say , but this is not confirmed and so , they dismiss it, they also , say things that make no sense and say they are right , and then you have a couple that has so much drama , that they don't care about anything  or the truth but would rather try to get even and make people look bad, its a real shame to see this , and so I will refuse to answer anymore the evil intentions of a couple and to answer people thinking they are almighty and this is all about them , when they have lost focus on the simple teaching of Jesus , they are out smarting them selves backwards for they are out of touch with God and they are about the pride and the self, quick to judge and fast to trip someone up

 this is how it started when I first got on this sight , and its has not changed , but they will see the truth and I will bring in truth with the help of the spirit and the word of God , for any other God or focus of the flesh is  evil and so  I wanted to realty thank you for your response , it is very kind,

 I see most people and my self to try to defend our selves more then learning, this is not of God an I am sure many can see this , how its been a dog  eat dog, may god have mercy on all of us  and that we can come into His grace, and be blessed and the evil will flee ,

[completedbeliever1]

So  based on this revelation, it is (1) Christ within the Holy Place in Heaven, (2) His shed blood, (3) His perfect sacrifice, (4) His New Testament (Covenant) which gives the sinner (1) eternal redemption, (2) a clear conscience, (3) freedom from dead works, (4) power to serve the living God, and (5) the promise of an eternal inheritance.

There is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood. Therefore we are (1) washed in the blood of the Lamb and (2) there is an ongoing cleansing of our sins by the blood of Christ - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7).

For all to be "cleansed" it must be death, burial, and resurrection.  (Baptism.)
He is free from dead works, (works of the flesh) after he is baptized.
Power to serve the living Almighty, because he has power on earth after Yashua ascended into heaven.  
Put these two together and you have a person having the power to not sin because he was given the power to stop because of obedience. 
Baptism is the point where the sin stops and the power of the spirit begins.

[Spock]

2 hours ago, Shar said:

Sorry for this.  Means nothing.  Cannot not get out of multi-quote.  Hoping this does it.

May I make a suggestion here? I think everyone on this thread needs to read Romans 14 slowly again and ponder how it can be applied in our lives and then return here. Cheers.

spock being a peacemaker (because he wants to see God too)

[SINNERSAVED]

16 minutes ago, Spock said:

May I make a suggestion here? I think everyone on this thread needs to read Romans 14 slowly again and ponder how it can be applied in our lives and then return here. Cheers.

spock being a peacemaker (because he wants to see God too)

spock , maybe you should change your name to peace maker, , it sounds good brother, lol

[Qnts2]

4 hours ago, Shar said:

That is why I was soooooooo perplexed.  You quote these articles that blast the Jews, like the last one you posted from an early Church source, that was so upsetting to portray the Jews in such a disgusting manner.  Why would you do that?

I know exactly why the dash is used.  That is what I am used to and will continue to do so.  I am in communication with Jews and I do not wish to slip.  Your discourse did not teach me anything I did not already know.   I already answered you regarding Esther and my argument not being with the Easter name designation, but the substitution for Passover, Unleavened Bread and First Fruits.  Why not keep them since they are the actual times of his death, burial and resurrection as scripted in the Holy Scriptures?

I am quite familiar with Jews, as I explained in my growing up in Miami.  I have never claimed to be Jewish.  I am making my presentation to posts, just like you.  I will continue to do so because it is a Jewish book, written by Jews, regarding a Jewish Messiah, who will return to restore the Jews and return as a Jew to reign in a Jewish land. 

I have never been judgmental of others and their beliefs, but I have reasonably given a counter argument.  Just as you have.  I don't neglect people, but love them and do whatever my Messiah directs me to do in regard to good deeds for them.  I don't think you can accuse me of not holding people in high regard when I had a legitimate question around the offensive post blasting the Jews.

I, however, hold you in high regard, because you are in the family of G-d.

 

The letter I quoted is historical, and it was to show the anti-semitic attitude as I stated. The change was to eliminate anything connected to Jews from Christianity. The change of name was to separate from the Jewish people, and not to insert paganism into Christianity. Easter is about honoring what Jesus did. While it separates from the Passover, the meaning and purpose is the same. As I also stated, most Christians, after hundreds of years, do not know the source of the name or date change, and celebrate in an entire Jesus honoring manner. The celebration of Easter is not pagan.

When you said that I did not sound or act like a Jewish person, that was very judgmental and clearly wrong, and since you claim to know Jewish people, you should have known better then to say that.     

 

[SINNERSAVED]

2 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

The letter I quoted is historical, and it was to show the anti-semitic attitude as I stated. The change was to eliminate anything connected to Jews from Christianity. The change of name was to separate from the Jewish people, and not to insert paganism into Christianity. Easter is about honoring what Jesus did. While it separates from the Passover, the meaning and purpose is the same. As I also stated, most Christians, after hundreds of years, do not know the source of the name or date change, and celebrate in an entire Jesus honoring manner. The celebration of Easter is not pagan.

When you said that I did not sound or act like a Jewish person, that was very judgmental and clearly wrong, and since you claim to know Jewish people, you should have known better then to say that.     

 

are you saying that easter celebration it self is not pagan ? how do you come to this conclusion, for I believe all the holidays are evil and pagan, for there is none of it ,stated in the bible that we should follow ,or celebrate it,

just like Christmas, where is it in the bible , and I do not believe that Jesus would celebrate this , for it is completely south of the teachings in the bible , but that is my opinion and I will stick to it, thank you sister I ask this in love , not in any other fashion blessings

[Qnts2]

14 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

are you saying that easter celebration it self is not pagan ? how do you come to this conclusion, for I believe all the holidays are evil and pagan, for there is none of it ,stated in the bible that we should follow ,or celebrate it,

just like Christmas, where is it in the bible , and I do not believe that Jesus would celebrate this , for it is completely south of the teachings in the bible , but that is my opinion and I will stick to it, thank you sister I ask this in love , not in any other fashion blessings

The bible mentions Chanukah (Feast of Dedication) and that Jesus was at the Temple during the time of the celebration. Chanukah is not in scripture. Yet, Jesus did not criticize or object. Jesus actually did some Jewish traditions which are not in scripture.

What Jesus did criticize was traditions which altered or contradicted scripture. Traditions are not necessarily bad things. As long as they do not cause a person to go against scripture.

We know that Jesus was born and that those who were aware of the birth of the Messiah saw it as a celebration. We do not know when exactly Jesus was born. But, if people see His birth as something to celebrate, and choose a common date to celebrate together, it is a tradition which is not counter to scripture. Christmas is a celebration of Jesus for those who view it as the birth of Jesus and want to honor Him. It is not pagan, but is a good thing to do. God uses Christmas to bring the gospel, and I know of people who have come to Jesus thru Christmas.

For something to be a pagan celebration, it has to celebrate or honor pagan gods. Neither Christmas or Easter celebrate or honor pagan gods. They celebrate and honor Jesus. So, neither is pagan. But if a person who worships a pagan god, chooses to do so on Christmas or Easter, it is not those holidays, but that person who is a pagan and doing pagan worship.

As far as the timing of Jesus birth, we do not know for sure, but one of the least likely times would be around Succoth (Feast of booths). The dates do not match up, and the weather around Bethlehem which is more of a arrid/desert, would not allow the shepherds to have their sheep out grazing in the hills outside Bethlehem at the time of Succoth. Succoth is at the end of the dry season when all the grass in the hills is brown and dead. The wet season starts at the end of October or middle November, so the grass would be green in December thru April or May.  

Finally, I did not grow up with Christmas, and to me Christmas involves memories of times past. I have no memories so do not relate well with Christmas, so I do not celebrate Christmas. I have no problem for those who keep that tradition to honor Jesus. Actually, I encourage them because so many Jewish people are curious about Jesus and Christmas and are more willing to hear more about Jesus at that time. It is a wonderful evangelistic time.     

[Qnts2]

4 hours ago, Spock said:

Q,

Do Jews even consider you Jewish? I'm thinking not. I would think most Jews see you as a traitor and definitely not one of them anymore.  (Are you now a Christian or goyim to them?)   Let me know.

spock

Within the Jewish community, when I first accepted Jesus, I was called a traitor. I understand the thinking as before I found that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah, I thought the same way. But, when I read the NT, and realized that Jesus is the Messiah, my next thought was, 'how could we, the Jewish people, have missed this?'  

A huge insult from one Jewish person to another is to call a Jewish person a Gentile. It is a cultural insult. I come from a Yiddish background, and an Orthodox background, and we used to consider some Reform Jews to be Goyisha Yids, which means Gentile thinking Jews. Again and insult. Not the being Gentile is wrong, but for a Jewish person to act like a Gentile was considered bad. So, when a Jewish person calls me a Gentile, it is meant as an insult, because of the disgust of me believing in Jesus. 

But, Jewish law and the OT, considers a person born Jewish as still Jewish. I had a friend who was a Messianic Jew. (I have told this before on this forum so sorry for those who remember this repeat). He was visiting the local Chabad Rabbi (ultra-Orthodox). That Rabbi called him a Gentile/goy (Yiddish). The prayer service was starting and the Rabbi realized there were not 10 Jewish men (a minyan) but only 9, which is required to read from the Torah. He quickly went out and asked my friend to stay so they would have a minyan. It was just 15 minutes earlier this Rabbi was calling my friend a Gentile because of his belief in Jesus, and 15 minutes later, asking my friend to fill a role which can only be done by an adult Jewish male. Did the Rabbi really think my friend was a Gentile? Obviously not or he would not have asked him to stay so there would be 10 adult Jewish men.

As an added note: Goy in Hebrew means nation and most of the time refers to the nations who lived around Israel, so would be referring to Gentile nations. Israel is also called a nation. Yiddish uses the word Goy with a different meaning, and Goy in Yiddism means Gentile. Yiddish and Hebrew uses many of the same words but the words do sometimes have different meanings.