Old Covenant vs New Covenant

[Shar]

24 minutes ago, other one said:

but most of us are not Jews and we are not expected to become Jews.   That's what not being circumcised was all about.

True.  Never has circumcision been supported in my posts.  Oh, quite the opposite.

[SINNERSAVED]

3 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

   

No, this is incorrect.

The New Testament is written in Greek, using the Greek language.

We are not grafted into Israel.  We are grafted into Christ.

There in no longer Jew or Greek (gentile) in Christ but ONE NEW MAN, as I have already pointed out from scripture.

The teaching of Judaizers was condemned in the New Testament.

 

 

  

A gentile would never be put over a Jewish synagogue - the Jews would never have stood for it.

Yet Paul made Titus, a Greek gentile, a Bishop of the Church of a particular location.   This made him the leader of that Church.   They were not meeting in the synagogue and they were not being taught by Jews but by a Greek gentile.   They met in homes.

 

 

why are you continually trying to poison the threads of truth thereseflower, you are in a area of not understanding for you have stir , everyone to believe lies, I would not respond, to you ,for you are pushing false doctrines and questioning everything that is good, and everyone should see the true colors of this,  if others haven caught on yet , ,they will,

I knew a story of a fox that got into the hen house, and it stired a lot of confusion for they did not know what to believe ,but something got them off focus and then many was taken away ,

I know of the parable of the sower , one day there was seed that was thrown , but the birds swept down and eat it up , so it had no chance to grow, tell me a story of truth and of the holy God we serve and I will tell you about belief and faith in the almighty ,

[other one]

26 minutes ago, Shar said:

True.  Never has circumcision been supported in my posts.  Oh, quite the opposite.

and yet you tell me i need to do the things that Jews do anyway....      i think we've reached a point that i don't care to carry on a conversation..

[Qnts2]

4 hours ago, Shar said:

I am not talking about what Jewish Rabbis taught in Rabbinic Law.  Just the many references already stated in Scripture.  Gentiles entering into the faith had no other means of worship than the existing system G-d established and Paul referred to often as the Jewish sect, known as the Way.  It would have been blasphemous to fold any form of pagan worship into the practice.   For example, the Feast of Ishtar (Easter) to substitute for Passover, our L-rd's death, burial and resurrection.

Since you used a verse which referenced Gentiles learning in synagogues, you are talking about what Jewish Rabbis teach. 

Easter was not mentioned as an official Church holiday until the Nicean council. In reality, Easter is Passover, with the name changed and the date re-set. Passover is only about Jesus death, His resurrection was on the first fruit wave offering, which is another OT practice. 

Gentiles did not enter into the Mosaic covenant. Gentiles came to the Messiah as prophesied in the OT, and remain as Gentiles (not Israel).

During the time of Jesus and the Temple, uncircumcised Gentiles were not allowed to partake in the Passover according to the law  

Exodus 12:⁴³ The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: no foreigner is to eat of it; ⁴⁴ but every man’s slave purchased with money, after you have circumcised him, then he may eat of it. ⁴⁵ A sojourner or a hired servant shall not eat of it. ⁴⁶ It is to be eaten in a single house; you are not to bring forth any of the flesh outside of the house, nor are you to break any bone of it. ⁴⁷ All the congregation of Israel are to celebrate this. ⁴⁸ But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it

So, the uncircumcised are not allowed to partake in the Passover, according to OT law. The uncircumcised believers could celebrate a NT version of Passover, which has to do about Jesus, in remembrance of what He did, but not about the deliverance from Egypt by the blood on the doorposts. While named differently, Easter is based on the NT version of Passover although with a different name. Easter is not pagan as it does not celebrate or have anything to do with Ishtar. 

[Qnts2]

4 hours ago, Shar said:

Yes, we are to walk in the Messiah.  Yes, we are not to adopt the philosophy of the world system.  Yes, we have been circumcised by our belief in Him.  Yes, Paul states, Now, as a Gentile, don't let anyone judge you for keeping the established feasts and Sabbaths, now that you have pulled away from your paganism.  There seems to be a mindset that if you follow any of G-d festivals or Sabbaths that you have added to G-d's word.  This is not so.  Yes, these are a foreshadow of the Messiah and in each one of them we are reminded of the richness of Him.

The men who came from James were insisting that Gentiles had to be circumcised and become Jews in order to be saved.  This is false.  Gentiles are grafted into Israel through their belief in Messiah.  Paul throughout Acts refers to the faith as a sect of Judaism, The Way. 

Gentiles were not grafted into Israel. Gentiles are grafted into Jesus. One emphasis in both the OT and the NT is that Gentiles would be drawn to the Messiah, and remain Gentiles.

[SINNERSAVED]

39 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Gentiles were not grafted into Israel. Gentiles are grafted into Jesus. One emphasis in both the OT and the NT is that Gentiles would be drawn to the Messiah, and remain Gentiles.

that is  a great response, and since you have brought this up about the gentiles, let me add, my view to this, you are correct that we as Gentiles was pulled into the fold in acts  10, now , lets have the jews be jews , and converted Gentiles that have accepted Jesus as there savior, saved sinners and gentiles,

for all have fallen short , and God came to save what was lost, and to bring in the Gentiles into the fold we all agree and so the God of the jews is also our God, there is only one God and now we as Gentiles not of jewish or passdown blood line , but in spirit and truth we are all one family , the body, we all are now a part of the body of Christ jESUS , NOW IN THE MEDICAL field if a body part was not a match to the person receiving from a donor, that if it does not match it will not last and die, and so , we need to be inline , jew and Gentile in one blood line of spiritual bonding of the blood of Christ shed on the cross, ,

so now with this as we are all brothers and sisters in the same blood that saves us , and we are now one people  one body , under one God, we as Gentiles are not able to become jews , but we are able to try to follow as close as possible to be in respect and honor to God by all that we have and all that we are , and by this we follow in action and in tradition of Gods words and instruction, so we would want to follow the commandments , and follow the teachings of Jesus  and do the things in rememberance of the sacrifice on the cross, when the jews were told stay away from the unclean , why would we not also try to do the same ? this is all that I have tried to say, for we want to put forth our best , to be pleasing in the sight of the lord , amen..

 now this is not us gentiles trying to go under moses and side step jesus and all the finish work m,done on the cross, but we want to do as much and everything to reflect Jesus and everything He would do or tell us we should by every means, and so , with that said, there is no one here today ,or yesterday , or tomorrow that can tell me I have violated any law of moses or the grace of Christ Jesus , for I am with in all of the law and grace at the same time, not creating anything new under the sun , but abiding in Christ , as a follower and believer , and a called out one to separate my self from the non believer, and today ,is a very good example, for other then someone saying they are a believer and have not done anything to show the fruits of the spirit , and the filled spirit  light of the word, we seem to all be the same,

in the futre we will be separated by the choices for sure for when that day comes when you need to make  a decision to follow or be let go from a job , or you cannot get food unless you have a mark , or killed just for believing , this is when we will really have no choice but to prove to your self ,the world and God whos side you are really on so I believe with this dietary law , it gives me insight , and power of the spirit to develop my plan that I need to be in compliance with the holy spirit and the word of God , for this is a stepping stone of the much larger stones to be stepping up on, we need to have a mind set on God not of our selves and not about what people will say or act  against what you believe,

 if we are believers we are , not to be ashamed of the gospel , for if we cannot try to adjust our lives to this or anything , I believe God calls us to, then we will not have built up the strength to endure until the end , he who endures until the end will be saved, not the one that says I am saved and does nothing for there is no faith to do any works, and god forbid this , that we do not obey and be one with HiM ?

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, Qnts2 said:

Gentiles were not grafted into Israel. Gentiles are grafted into Jesus. One emphasis in both the OT and the NT is that Gentiles would be drawn to the Messiah, and remain Gentiles.

Exactly.

• Romans 11 ¹⁶ If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

  ¹⁷ But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root^[b] of the olive tree, ¹⁸ do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.¹⁹ Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”²⁰ That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. ²¹ For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. ²² Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.²³ And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. ²⁴ For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

 

• John 15 4"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned

 

Jesus is the firstfruits.

Jesus is the root.

Jesus is the vine.

Jews, ie Israel, are branches.

These branches were broken off.

Gentiles were grafted in -  not into Israel but into the the tree itself -  not into branches but into the tree itself.

When Jews believe in Christ, they are grafted back into the tree itsefl.

The Tree that supports them as it supports gentile believers is Christ Himself, not Israel.

This is why there is now no more Jew or Gentile, but One New Man IN Christ.

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, SINNERSAVED said:

that is  a great response, and since you have brought this up about the gentiles, let me add, my view to this, you are correct that we as Gentiles was pulled into the fold in acts  10, now , lets have the jews be jews , and converted Gentiles that have accepted Jesus as there savior, saved sinners and gentiles,

 

Why make a false distinction when God says there is no distinction between believing Jew and believing gentile?

If God is no respecter of persons, why are people treating Jews differently than gentiles?

  God is no respecter of persons, and there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ but ONE NEW MAN.

• Sons Through Faith in Christ
  Galatians 3  27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 

 

• Put on the New Self
  Colossians 3  10and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him-- 11a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all. 

 

• One in Christ
  Ephesians 2   14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity

 

Notice again what the scriptures says here:

The Law of commandments was ABOLISHED in CHRIST'S FLESH.

 

Th Law of commandments is what stood between Jew and Gentile-  it was enmity between them.   Jesus abolished this in His flesh so nothing stands between Jew and gentile today in Him.

 

 

 

[SINNERSAVED]

2 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

Why make a false distinction when God says there is no distinction between believing Jew and believing gentile?

If God is no respecter of persons, why are people treating Jews differently than gentiles?

  God is no respecter of persons, and there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ but ONE NEW MAN.

• Sons Through Faith in Christ
  Galatians 3  27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 

 

• Put on the New Self
  Colossians 3  10and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him-- 11a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all. 

 

• One in Christ
  Ephesians 2   14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity

 

Notice again what the scriptures says here:

The Law of commandments was ABOLISHED in CHRIST'S FLESH.

 

Th Law of commandments is what stood between Jew and Gentile-  it was enmity between them.   Jesus abolished this in His flesh so nothing stands between Jew and gentile today in Him.

 

 

 

thereseflower, you are trying to confuse the people  and to twist what I was saying, you are trying to nickel and dime, to make a point against me, for exposing you, now since you have made a effort to try to destroy my view, lets go back to what you have not been able to do ,

I asked you a few simple yes and no questions about what you do when you go to your catholic church , and you have side step and avoided me , for it will expose the truth and so you are staying far away from it , and do not want any to know , that you are trying to destroy and deceive all that people are saying is Good,

so why are you doing this, I would like to atleast know , how you go after every thread ,and I mean every thread to get it stirred up,and put your comment in and its not even biblical, I think you want confusion, and I will not let the truth  be spoiled by false teaching, you can try to put it on me , but we can all see something is not right with your agenda,  ?so what is it that you are trying to do ? so I can understand ?

[SINNERSAVED]

thereseflower, if you would have read all that I already posted you would see how this topic was placed as a follow up , so you might want to go and see what is being expressed and examined, and what is scriptural , for I don't see why you are saying I am not telling the truth , if it be personal  let it go ? this is about learning in debt Gods word, you have thrown the topic off course, for why I don't know , but I see its been going on for awhile, and no one will be able to learn if it is taken of its tracks  again, and again,