The True Name of God and Jesus ,in respect to its origin?

[Qnts2]

3 hours ago, tigger two said:

The following is for those who believe the King James Version is the infallible, perfect word of God:

Here is how Ps. 83:16-18 reads in the KJV:

“16 Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD [YHWH].
“17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:
“18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH [YHWH], art the most high over all the earth.” (Boldfacing added)

Never mind that YHWH is purposely mistranslated as ‘LORD’ thousands of times in line with the Jewish superstition that His name is never to be spoken (in spite of the fact that it is spoken by hundreds of prophets and men of God in prayer and conversation throughout OT Scripture)! We see here that YHWH in Ps. 83:18 translates that same name as JEHOVAH and tells us that it is God’s name alone!

If the KJV is your infallible guide, we have the true pronunciation of God’s only [personal] name: JEHOVAH.

Correction. YHVH was never, ever mistranslated by Judaism. Judaism uses the Hebrew text, and the Hebrew text clearly says YHVH. Jewish people, when speaking scripture out loud, say Adonai. In the text it says YHVH. This is done out of respect. But!!! It is not a mistranslation. 

Jehovah is not God's name, but a confusion of understanding of the original Hebrew. Hebrew was written without vowels in the canonized text. In copies of scripture used for study such as the Chumash, vowels are included. In the study versions with the vowels included, God's Name has the vowels added which are from Adonai, as a reminder to say Adonai. It is a simple convention and well known in Judaism, but resulted in confusion for non-Jews who used the vowels from Adonai and came up with Jehovah.

Adding:

The term, Adonai, is a noun with a pronoun suffix. Adonai is also a plural noun. In Hebrew, when there is a plural noun with a singular adjective or verb, it indicates supremacy. So, when the verse means God/Lord, the noun is usually plural but the others words in the sentence are singular. This is found with the use of Adonai, but more commonly with the word for God, Elochim. Elochim is plural and when the rest of the grammar is singular, it refers to God. (If the grammar is plural, the sentence refers to gods).

When a translation is into English, it makes no sense to carry forward Hebrew names or words. That just creates a poor and messy translation.

[tigger two]

55 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Correction. YHVH was never, ever mistranslated by Judaism. Judaism uses the Hebrew text, and the Hebrew text clearly says YHVH. Jewish people, when speaking scripture out loud, say Adonai. In the text it says YHVH. This is done out of respect. But!!! It is not a mistranslation. 

Jehovah is not God's name, but a confusion of understanding of the original Hebrew. Hebrew was written without vowels in the canonized text. In copies of scripture used for study such as the Chumash, vowels are included. In the study versions with the vowels included, God's Name has the vowels added which are from Adonai, as a reminder to say Adonai. It is a simple convention and well known in Judaism, but resulted in confusion for non-Jews who used the vowels from Adonai and came up with Jehovah.

Adding:

The term, Adonai, is a noun with a pronoun suffix. Adonai is also a plural noun. In Hebrew, when there is a plural noun with a singular adjective or verb, it indicates supremacy. So, when the verse means God/Lord, the noun is usually plural but the others words in the sentence are singular. This is found with the use of Adonai, but more commonly with the word for God, Elochim. Elochim is plural and when the rest of the grammar is singular, it refers to God. (If the grammar is plural, the sentence refers to gods).

When a translation is into English, it makes no sense to carry forward Hebrew names or words. That just creates a poor and messy translation.

I think you misunderstood.  This was intended for those who believe the KJV is the only inspired English translation.  Therefore, when I refer to the mistranslation of YHWH thousands of times as 'LORD,' I am referring to the KJV.

Since my quote of Psalms 83:18 is from the KJV, it is clear that those who believe it is a perfect, inspired translation must believe that God's name is JEHOVAH!

Nearly every other Hebrew personal name is transliterated into English, including 'Jesus' (Yeshua in Hebrew and Iesous in NT Greek).  The scriptures don't show the prophets, priests, and ordinary Jews avoiding the name of God in their speech.  In fact it is the most-used personal name (by far!) in the OT.

We see added vowels and mistransliterated consonants in hundreds of personal names throughout the KJV.  My personal favorite is "James." But these are all understood as literally accurate by the people I am writing to.

Edited January 11, 2016 by tigger two

[Ezra]

6 minutes ago, tigger two said:

I think you misunderstood.  This was intended for those who believe the KJV is the only inspired English translation.  Therefore, when I refer to the mistranslation of YHWH thousands of times as LORD, I am referring to the KJV.

And in doing so you are making a false accusation. To accuse the translators of the KJV of "thousands" of mistranslations is slander of the worst sort. Just as the Jews -- OUT OF REVERENCE FOR THE NAME OF GOD -- chose to say "Adonai" instead of Yahweh, the KJV translators followed their example and inserted "LORD" (which is equivalent to Adonai) since no English speaker would know how to pronounce YHWH.

And you are also totally mistaken in saying that people believe that the KJV is "inspired" simply because they believe that it is the most faithful and reliable English translation.  Inspiration applies only to the original autographs (manuscripts), but no fair-minded person can question that God had His hand over this translation from the very beginning and has blessed it for over 400 years.

[tigger two]

 

Quote

but no fair-minded person can question that God had His hand over this translation from the very beginning and has blessed it for over 400 years.

That's why so many call it an inspired TRANSLATION.

As for calling the removing of the name "Jehovah" (as the KJV itself transliterates it in Ps. 83:18) and replacing it with an entirely different word ("LORD") thousands of times a "false accusation," it is there for all to see in black and white!  "LORD" is a clear mistranslation.  Even the Jews, who superstitiously refused to SPEAK the name of God, did not remove the name in written form in their OT manuscripts! 

Who has the gall to remove the only name of God (Jehovah, according to the KJV) and replace it with an entirely different word with an entirely different meaning??

Edited January 11, 2016 by tigger two

[Qnts2]

22 minutes ago, tigger two said:

I think you misunderstood.  This was intended for those who believe the KJV is the only inspired English translation.  Therefore, when I refer to the mistranslation of YHWH thousands of times as 'LORD,' I am referring to the KJV.

Since my quote of Psalms 83:18 is from the KJV, it is clear that those who believe it is a perfect, inspired translation must believe that God's name is JEHOVAH!

Nearly every other Hebrew personal name is transliterated into English, including 'Jesus' (Yeshua in Hebrew and Iesous in NT Greek).  The scriptures don't show the prophets, priests, and ordinary Jews avoiding the name of God in their speech.  In fact it is the most-used personal name (by far!) in the OT.

We see added vowels and mistransliterated consonants in hundreds of personal names throughout the KJV.  My personal favorite is "James." But these are all understood as literally accurate by the people I am writing to.

I do not believe that the KJV is inspired. It is a translation into English. With that idea in place, Jesus is the English transliteration from Hebrew to Greek to Latin, and then to English. Since the KJV is an English translation, it is incorrect to insert Hebrew among the English. Following the Hebrew to Greek, there was no letter equivalency as Greek does not have some of the sound as Hebrew. The 'Y' sound did not exist in Greek. Plus, in Greek names, males names always ended with an 'S', so when taking Yeshua to Greek, to make Jesus a man, the 's' was added. 

James, in Hebrew would be Yacov. But Yacov is not an English name. James is correct.  Again, there is no Greek sound for Y, and following the lettering systems down, originally, J had the sound of a Y. So, it is not a bad transliteration carried thru changing letters, letter sounds, and grammar (making James a man's name).

The names are accurate in the language they were written in, English. 

You want to use what you think is God's name. I am glad Christians do not. The term God says it all as to Who He is. Transliterating from Hebrew to Roman letters does not really make it God's Most Holy Name. God's Most Holy Name is written in the Hebrew lettering system so the use of the Roman alphabet changes the Name. 

When transliterating Hebrew letter to Roman letters, there is not really a direct equivalency, so the transliteration is to come to the closest possible for pronunciation, and then many words are a little off. That is why some Hebrew words written in the Roman letters have multiple different spelling. All are ok as long as they come close, but none are spelled correctly.

[Qnts2]

24 minutes ago, Ezra said:

And in doing so you are making a false accusation. To accuse the translators of the KJV of "thousands" of mistranslations is slander of the worst sort. Just as the Jews -- OUT OF REVERENCE FOR THE NAME OF GOD -- chose to say "Adonai" instead of Yahweh, the KJV translators followed their example and inserted "LORD" (which is equivalent to Adonai) since no English speaker would know how to pronounce YHWH.

And you are also totally mistaken in saying that people believe that the KJV is "inspired" simply because they believe that it is the most faithful and reliable English translation.  Inspiration applies only to the original autographs (manuscripts), but no fair-minded person can question that God had His hand over this translation from the very beginning and has blessed it for over 400 years.

Thanks for that clarification on how you view the KJV. I know that some of the more extreme KJV onliests believe that the KJV is inspired, and the more extreme believe the KJV corrects the Hebrew so is a better inspired scripture then the original Hebrew.

[Littlelambseativy]

Be careful how in ignorance you can blaspheme the Holy Spirit and His work through the men He has chosen.

[WilliamL]

17 hours ago, Willa said:

Jesus told us to pray: Our Father Who is in heaven.  If that is good enough for Jesus it is good enough for me. 

Amen.

Personally, I don't think our Father gets all uptight about people incorrectly pronouncing his name. "The Lord looks on the heart." That is what is important to him: our intent.

And I don't think the Divine Name is even able to be spoken by the mouth; at best it can only be breathed.

 

 

[And I hope I'm not debasing this conversation by saying that the football gods certainly looked on the Seahawks with favor this weekend, Willa. ]