Raptures & Resurrections

[n2thelight]

@Serving

We will never ever need these flesh bodies again,they are nothing but dust

 

Genesis 3:19 "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

 

Now let's go to Ecclesiastes

Ecclesiastes 12:6

"Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern."

The "cistern" is the clay flesh body that our soul lives in. The cistern is built to hold the water or life that is within the flesh body, but once that bowl is broken the water or life leaks out of it, just as water leaks out of this flesh body. The "silver cord" is what holds your soul and the spirit together with the flesh body

 

Ecclesiastes 12:7

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."

 

Then when? After the silver cord breaks, the mind is brain dead, and the body loses its life. Then shall the body "dust" return to the earth as it was, before it was formed into food, and entered your mouth as food to make your flesh body healthy.

 

The spirit is the intellect of the soul, that gives the soul its identity. This is not complicated. When the body dies, and goes to the grave, the physical body will never have a use again, for the soul has returned to the Father, to God who created it in the first place. Because this is a promise of God, it should be what all Christians look forward to all the days of their lives. That is the day that we will be with the Father and Jesus Christ is heaven, not at some distant time in the future.

 

When man gets to the point of not being able to understand this promise that at death the soul goes immediately to be with the Father, then he form his religious man made ideas, and sidesteps what God's Word teaches. Friend, it takes only a short time for the body to decay, and there is no body there to resurrect. The body returns to the dirt that it is made of, and the soul departs from that body never to return to it.

 

God creates the flesh body for your soul to occupy, and He places your spirit within your soul. That is what gives your soul its identity. Then just as God gave it for a brief time, He will take your soul back to Himself, when the flesh body stops having life.

 

Now let's hear from Paul

I Corinthians 15:13 "But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:"

In other words, you are saying; "if all of the dead are not risen, then Christ must not be risen also." This is the exact subject that Paul was addressing in I Thessalonians 4 where Paul is addressing the question, "Where are the dead?" The Thessalonian Christians were starting to lose their faith over the belief that when they died, their souls would remain in the ground. and Paul was saying that this line of thinking was as the heathen thought.

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

 

The concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them and their bodies have been placed in a hole in the ground. The heathen fears come from the fact that they do not know what happen to the soul after death, for they have no hope after death. Those that sleep [are dead physically] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. All the dead are with God; all of them.

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

 

The subject again is "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are". If you are a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb alive. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believers]. When Christ ascended back to the Father on the fortieth day after His resurrection, all the souls went with him into heaven that had passed on. Some of those souls went to wait for that time of judgment, while others went to the glory of God. However there are no souls that remain with their decaying flesh body in the ground, none.

 

I Corinthians 15:14 "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain."

 

I Corinthians 15:16 "For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:"

 

We know for a fact as a Christian that Christ has risen,to believe this is to know that we rise also...

 

I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

 

Paul is now going to tell us what happens and we bury them in the ground. Pay attention so that you will understand and there will be no confusion. So if you believe in the resurrection, than how does it happen? Where does it take place, and with what body does the dead rise?

 

We are talking about the physical body and it's change. In other words, what happens to the flesh after death, and the soul after it has departed from the body?

 

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

 

There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you.

 

It just can't be made any clearer than Paul has made it here. You have two bodies, the flesh and the spiritual bodies. When the flesh body dies, then the spiritual body is awakened and come alive within itself. It starts to live a life without the baggage of the flesh body confining it to the limits of the flesh.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then [at death] shall the dust [flesh body] return to the earth as it was: and the spirit [spiritual body] shall return [instantly] to God [Father] Who gave it."

 

 

[SINNERSAVED]

10 hours ago, n2thelight said:

@Serving

We will never ever need these flesh bodies again,they are nothing but dust

 

Genesis 3:19 "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

 

Now let's go to Ecclesiastes

Ecclesiastes 12:6

"Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern."

The "cistern" is the clay flesh body that our soul lives in. The cistern is built to hold the water or life that is within the flesh body, but once that bowl is broken the water or life leaks out of it, just as water leaks out of this flesh body. The "silver cord" is what holds your soul and the spirit together with the flesh body

 

Ecclesiastes 12:7

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."

 

Then when? After the silver cord breaks, the mind is brain dead, and the body loses its life. Then shall the body "dust" return to the earth as it was, before it was formed into food, and entered your mouth as food to make your flesh body healthy.

 

The spirit is the intellect of the soul, that gives the soul its identity. This is not complicated. When the body dies, and goes to the grave, the physical body will never have a use again, for the soul has returned to the Father, to God who created it in the first place. Because this is a promise of God, it should be what all Christians look forward to all the days of their lives. That is the day that we will be with the Father and Jesus Christ is heaven, not at some distant time in the future.

 

When man gets to the point of not being able to understand this promise that at death the soul goes immediately to be with the Father, then he form his religious man made ideas, and sidesteps what God's Word teaches. Friend, it takes only a short time for the body to decay, and there is no body there to resurrect. The body returns to the dirt that it is made of, and the soul departs from that body never to return to it.

 

God creates the flesh body for your soul to occupy, and He places your spirit within your soul. That is what gives your soul its identity. Then just as God gave it for a brief time, He will take your soul back to Himself, when the flesh body stops having life.

 

Now let's hear from Paul

I Corinthians 15:13 "But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:"

In other words, you are saying; "if all of the dead are not risen, then Christ must not be risen also." This is the exact subject that Paul was addressing in I Thessalonians 4 where Paul is addressing the question, "Where are the dead?" The Thessalonian Christians were starting to lose their faith over the belief that when they died, their souls would remain in the ground. and Paul was saying that this line of thinking was as the heathen thought.

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

 

The concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them and their bodies have been placed in a hole in the ground. The heathen fears come from the fact that they do not know what happen to the soul after death, for they have no hope after death. Those that sleep [are dead physically] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. All the dead are with God; all of them.

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

 

The subject again is "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are". If you are a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb alive. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believers]. When Christ ascended back to the Father on the fortieth day after His resurrection, all the souls went with him into heaven that had passed on. Some of those souls went to wait for that time of judgment, while others went to the glory of God. However there are no souls that remain with their decaying flesh body in the ground, none.

 

I Corinthians 15:14 "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain."

 

I Corinthians 15:16 "For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:"

 

We know for a fact as a Christian that Christ has risen,to believe this is to know that we rise also...

 

I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

 

Paul is now going to tell us what happens and we bury them in the ground. Pay attention so that you will understand and there will be no confusion. So if you believe in the resurrection, than how does it happen? Where does it take place, and with what body does the dead rise?

 

We are talking about the physical body and it's change. In other words, what happens to the flesh after death, and the soul after it has departed from the body?

 

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

 

There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you.

 

It just can't be made any clearer than Paul has made it here. You have two bodies, the flesh and the spiritual bodies. When the flesh body dies, then the spiritual body is awakened and come alive within itself. It starts to live a life without the baggage of the flesh body confining it to the limits of the flesh.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then [at death] shall the dust [flesh body] return to the earth as it was: and the spirit [spiritual body] shall return [instantly] to God [Father] Who gave it."

 

 

that was a awesome response, do you have any more scripture to back this up , if you do I would like al that covers this view , thank you I will examine also about this for my self and to take notes,

[WilliamL]

Matthew 22:32 states, “I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” God is not the God of the DEAD; but of the LIVING. Lazarus was dead in body but alive in consciousness when he went to Abraham, who was also alive in consciousness; or else Jesus was deceitfully teaching.

2nd Corinthians 5:8, “We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.” Paul said to be absent from the body means to be PRESENT WITH THE LORD. If our soul is unconscious when our body dies, then how can we be “absent” from the body? The Bible teaches that we will be with the Lord while absent from our body. Clearly, the Word of God teaches that the soul separates from the body at death.

In Luke 23:43 Jesus told the repentant thief on the cross... "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Jesus didn't say anything about soul sleep.

Jesus arose from the dead both body and soul: his body was gone from the tomb. However, when his physical body was dead, Jesus "preached to the spirits in prison [Hades.]" No lack of awareness there for either Jesus nor those in Hades.

The only part of the man that sleeps in death is the physical body.

[Serving]

Hi n2thlight,

You haven't quite understood the main difference I was pointing out which is why I only need to answer this :

Quote

We will never ever need these flesh bodies again, they are nothing but dust

I was NOT speaking of the SAINTS who get caught up in the air, as I already mentioned AND agreed with you that those SAINTS will be SPIRIT beings .. so your answer was based on your misunderstanding of my response.

ANY saint IN Christ WILL be changed to SPIRIT at the 2nd coming never ever again being flesh but forever more immortal spirit beings like the angels.

Let's be 100 % sure about that FIRST because that is what this RULE means :

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Again, I was NOT speaking of that group .. I was talking about THIS GROUP who are NOT changed into SPIRIRT :

Isaiah 65:19-25

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

THAT group STILL HAS CHILDREN .. meaning .. THEY are HUMAN.

That FLESH group who will be RULED by Christ's SAINTS ..

Are you aware that this is what God has planned?

Serving.

 

[Serving]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Matthew 22:32 states, “I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” God is not the God of the DEAD; but of the LIVING. Lazarus was dead in body but alive in consciousness when he went to Abraham, who was also alive in consciousness; or else Jesus was deceitfully teaching.

 

IF Lazarus went to PARADISE then Lazarus went to HEAVEN (using the definition of paradise proponents of that belief use) which means this is deceitful :

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Again, IF Lazarus went to paradise then the above is false, which would mean many other scriptures along with this one below are too :

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

And those many brethren are all His Saints who get gathered to Him in the clouds.

Which understanding gives a different perspective on "God is the God of the living" to a much more literal view.

 

Quote

In Luke 23:43 Jesus told the repentant thief on the cross... "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Jesus didn't say anything about soul sleep.

In relation to the above, this too changes.

Quote

Jesus arose from the dead both body and soul: his body was gone from the tomb. However, when his physical body was dead, Jesus "preached to the spirits in prison [Hades.]" No lack of awareness there for either Jesus nor those in Hades.

1 Peter 3:18-19

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Notice Christ was FIRST quickened BEFORE preaching?

Concerning Christ's flesh body .. remember this :

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Christ's flesh body was CHANGED (quickened) into Spirit when He ASCENDED to His Father that very same day, not long after uttering these words actually.

Serving.

[Serving]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

2nd Corinthians 5:8, “We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.” Paul said to be absent from the body means to be PRESENT WITH THE LORD. If our soul is unconscious when our body dies, then how can we be “absent” from the body? The Bible teaches that we will be with the Lord while absent from our body. Clearly, the Word of God teaches that the soul separates from the body at death.

 

Sorry William,

I needed to fix this bit .. I am rushing MADLY before turning off .. I'm MOVING house today and mad a silly mistake in my haste

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Notice Paul said *WILLING RATHER TO BE ABSENT* from the body ?

Paul would PREFER to be with Christ than be here on earth is all he meant.

Okay, gotta go now and continue moving.

Serving.

 

[n2thelight]

4 hours ago, Serving said:

Hi n2thlight,

You haven't quite understood the main difference I was pointing out which is why I only need to answer this :

I was NOT speaking of the SAINTS who get caught up in the air, as I already mentioned AND agreed with you that those SAINTS will be SPIRIT beings .. so your answer was based on your misunderstanding of my response.

ANY saint IN Christ WILL be changed to SPIRIT at the 2nd coming never ever again being flesh but forever more immortal spirit beings like the angels.

Let's be 100 % sure about that FIRST because that is what this RULE means :

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Again, I was NOT speaking of that group .. I was talking about THIS GROUP who are NOT changed into SPIRIRT :

Isaiah 65:19-25

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

THAT group STILL HAS CHILDREN .. meaning .. THEY are HUMAN.

That FLESH group who will be RULED by Christ's SAINTS ..

Are you aware that this is what God has planned?

Serving.

 

I understood you well...My point was,ALL shall be changed,that's the only way we can be judged,saint and sinner alike....When Christ returns,the age of the flesh is over...There will be no flesh in the milennium...

 

Now let's look at Isaiah

Isaiah 65:17 "For, "Behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

 

There are three earth ages, the former we discussed earlier in Isaiah 64, and the second is the age of the flesh. After the coming of Jesus Christ and the Millennium age kingdom, there will be a third earth age, and that third earth age is what is referred to here. Today we think that the things of the flesh are so very important, however in that third earth age the things of this age of the flesh will be erased from all memory of those saints of God that have not been judged to hell fire with Satan. Upon the judgment of the great white throne judgment even your close loved ones that refused the salvation of God, will be as if they had never existed, they will be blotted out of your mind.

 

They will be blotted out of the book of life because they are dead, physically, and spiritually their soul has been turned to ashes. They do not exist in eternity in any form, not even in memory. This is why there will be no tears in that third and heavenly age.

 

Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away [completed blotted out]."

 

Those things of this earth system of today will not even be remembered in eternity. This age of the flesh is a time of testing of each soul because of the falling away and rebellion that Satan caused in that first earth age. The test is here and now, and the choice is up for each soul whether he or she will choose God or Satan. One third fell in the first earth age, and those that made a stand then are called the elect. They were judged and found worthy then, yet they also had to be born of woman in the flesh, just as the free-will souls must.

 

Those souls that refused to be born of woman, and followed Satan in that first earth age, are the "sons of God" spoken of in Jude 1-6, and Genesis 6:1-5. On judgment day, satan and all his followers will be judged and cast into hell fire, and their remembrance will be no more.

 

Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

 

The second death is the death of your soul, whereas the first death is the death of your flesh body.

 

Revelation 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

 

Are you getting the picture of this verse in Isaiah? It is your choice whether your name is written in the book of life by the choices you make in this life. Though your physical body may die in this age of the flesh, you soul will not die unto after judgment day. The Millennium age is for those that did not have the opportunity for one reason or another to hear the Word and see with understanding so they could make the choice. However, in the Millennium age salvation will not come by faith and grace, or unmerited favor, but by the works of that soul during the thousand year period. Then salvation will come by their works only. Those works which they performed in the Millennium age when they had the full understanding of God's Word will be what places their name in the Lamb's book of life.

 

Remember that at the seventh trumpet the flesh body will be changed in the wink of an eye into the incorruptible body and each soul will not age nor get sick in the Millennium. They will have complete understanding of God's Word, because God will place that in their memory. God will sentence no one to hell fire but that they have had the choice of choosing, and they knew exactly what they chose.

 

Isaiah 65:18 "But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy."

 

In that New Jerusalem there is going to be joy everywhere.

 

Isaiah 65:19 "And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying."

 

Every thing and person that would cause one to weep will be gone forever. They will be as if they had never been created in the first place. If you had a relative, a wife, husband, or daughter and they didn't make it, you could be sad about it, however God will wipe every thought of them from your memory. It is like you having four kids and one wasn't saved, that thought of that one will be erased from every family members mind, it will be like that son or brother never existed. This is why there will be no crying and weeping, but a continual time of rejoicing. This verse goes back to verse seventeen.

 

Isaiah 65:20 "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."

 

This verse is a little twisted in the English, from what it reads in the Massoretic text. This is saying that no longer will a child die when it is only a few days old, and no longer will a person be considered old when they are an hundred days old. Why is this? We are in the eternity, there are no births and deaths, and every soul is in its incorruptible and immortal bodies. God is saying also that the sinner, no matter what his or her age will be blotted out, no longer in existance. The sinner will be gone, ashes forever.

 

http://www.theseason.org/isaiah/isaiah65.htm

[n2thelight]

@Serving

One must understand that there was an age before this one....We come from God,and I don't mean at conception,we were with Him in the beginning before the rebellion of lucifer....If one can understand this,grasp it,the Word will flow like the living water it is............

 

[SINNERSAVED]

4 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

@Serving

One must understand that there was an age before this one....We come from God,and I don't mean at conception,we were with Him in the beginning before the rebellion of lucifer....If one can understand this,grasp it,the Word will flow like the living water it is............

 

that sounds really good, but how do you come to this conclusion, for I have always thought that we were of a spirit , and in and out of time some how, but what you say I do understand , but is there scripture to tell us this is firm ? thank you    n2thelight

[n2thelight]

30 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

that sounds really good, but how do you come to this conclusion, for I have always thought that we were of a spirit , and in and out of time some how, but what you say I do understand , but is there scripture to tell us this is firm ? thank you    n2thelight

Hello SS

There's alot of scripture to back this...

Try the below link,it explains it well,with scripture

 

http://www.theseason.org/genesis/genesis1.htm