Raptures & Resurrections

[SINNERSAVED]

14 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Hello SS

There's alot of scripture to back this...

Try the below link,it explains it well,with scripture

 

http://www.theseason.org/genesis/genesis1.htm

 

 

 

 

okay I will look it up  thank you for the link blessings to you

[n2thelight]

39 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

I'm not sure what is yours and what you were replying to....

As for a different post apparently though,

 remember Jesus Resurrected showed Himself to the disciples ALIVE

and made  a point :  see, I have flesh and bone.  I AM not a ghost/ ethereal without body.....   Not for this thread though.... if ever....

 

What kind of body did Christ accend to heaven with?

[n2thelight]

We were a soul before we were made flesh.....What kind of body did Christ have before being born of woman?

[WilliamL]

11 hours ago, Serving said:

IF Lazarus went to PARADISE then Lazarus went to HEAVEN (using the definition of paradise proponents of that belief use) which means this is deceitful :

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

At this time of Lazarus, Abraham's bosom was in Hades, the abode of all the dead, both the righteous and unrighteous. There was a great division between the two. The Hebrews called the place of the righteous dead Abraham's Bosom; the Greeks called it Elysian Fields. Only after Jesus descended to Hades, preached the Gospel there (as 1 Pet. 3:19, 4:6, and Eph. 4:5 tell us), and "led captivity captive," in that "the gates of Hell/Hades did not prevail against the Church" he established there -- only thereafter did Abraham and the other righteous dead ascend to heaven. So Christ indeed was the firstborn of the dead both in body and in spirit.

12 hours ago, Serving said:

Concerning Christ's flesh body .. remember this :

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Christ's flesh body was CHANGED (quickened) into Spirit when He ASCENDED to His Father that very same day, not long after uttering these words actually.

Seems like you've changed your view, if you say his body was quickened, that is, he kept his body, although that body was changed. I entirely agree. That is why his body was missing from the tomb.

A Hebrew sage has put it this way, to which I also entirely agree: "In the seventh millennium, the bodies will rise to the level... where the body is entirely subject to the soul. However, in the eighth millennium, the body will be merged with the soul as at the first..."

Before Adam fell, his physical body was malleable, according to the states of his soul. After he fell, his soul was bound within a fixed physical form. When Jesus arose from the dead, his soul began to shape his physical form as at the first, so at times he could be unrecognizable to his former disciples, and at other times he appeared in the form they remembered.

[Serving]

12 hours ago, n2thelight said:

I understood you well...My point was,ALL shall be changed,that's the only way we can be judged,saint and sinner alike....When Christ returns,the age of the flesh is over...There will be no flesh in the milennium...

 

Now let's look at Isaiah

Isaiah 65:17 "For, "Behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

 

There are three earth ages, the former we discussed earlier in Isaiah 64, and the second is the age of the flesh. After the coming of Jesus Christ and the Millennium age kingdom, there will be a third earth age, and that third earth age is what is referred to here. Today we think that the things of the flesh are so very important, however in that third earth age the things of this age of the flesh will be erased from all memory of those saints of God that have not been judged to hell fire with Satan. Upon the judgment of the great white throne judgment even your close loved ones that refused the salvation of God, will be as if they had never existed, they will be blotted out of your mind.

 

They will be blotted out of the book of life because they are dead, physically, and spiritually their soul has been turned to ashes. They do not exist in eternity in any form, not even in memory. This is why there will be no tears in that third and heavenly age.

 

Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away [completed blotted out]."

 

Those things of this earth system of today will not even be remembered in eternity. This age of the flesh is a time of testing of each soul because of the falling away and rebellion that Satan caused in that first earth age. The test is here and now, and the choice is up for each soul whether he or she will choose God or Satan. One third fell in the first earth age, and those that made a stand then are called the elect. They were judged and found worthy then, yet they also had to be born of woman in the flesh, just as the free-will souls must.

 

Those souls that refused to be born of woman, and followed Satan in that first earth age, are the "sons of God" spoken of in Jude 1-6, and Genesis 6:1-5. On judgment day, satan and all his followers will be judged and cast into hell fire, and their remembrance will be no more.

 

Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

 

The second death is the death of your soul, whereas the first death is the death of your flesh body.

 

Revelation 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

 

Are you getting the picture of this verse in Isaiah? It is your choice whether your name is written in the book of life by the choices you make in this life. Though your physical body may die in this age of the flesh, you soul will not die unto after judgment day. The Millennium age is for those that did not have the opportunity for one reason or another to hear the Word and see with understanding so they could make the choice. However, in the Millennium age salvation will not come by faith and grace, or unmerited favor, but by the works of that soul during the thousand year period. Then salvation will come by their works only. Those works which they performed in the Millennium age when they had the full understanding of God's Word will be what places their name in the Lamb's book of life.

 

Remember that at the seventh trumpet the flesh body will be changed in the wink of an eye into the incorruptible body and each soul will not age nor get sick in the Millennium. They will have complete understanding of God's Word, because God will place that in their memory. God will sentence no one to hell fire but that they have had the choice of choosing, and they knew exactly what they chose.

 

Isaiah 65:18 "But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy."

 

In that New Jerusalem there is going to be joy everywhere.

 

Isaiah 65:19 "And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying."

 

Every thing and person that would cause one to weep will be gone forever. They will be as if they had never been created in the first place. If you had a relative, a wife, husband, or daughter and they didn't make it, you could be sad about it, however God will wipe every thought of them from your memory. It is like you having four kids and one wasn't saved, that thought of that one will be erased from every family members mind, it will be like that son or brother never existed. This is why there will be no crying and weeping, but a continual time of rejoicing. This verse goes back to verse seventeen.

 

Isaiah 65:20 "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."

 

This verse is a little twisted in the English, from what it reads in the Massoretic text. This is saying that no longer will a child die when it is only a few days old, and no longer will a person be considered old when they are an hundred days old. Why is this? We are in the eternity, there are no births and deaths, and every soul is in its incorruptible and immortal bodies. God is saying also that the sinner, no matter what his or her age will be blotted out, no longer in existance. The sinner will be gone, ashes forever.

 

http://www.theseason.org/isaiah/isaiah65.htm

Hi n2thelight,

Those revelation scriptures deal with what is to take place AFTER the Millennium period .. but Isaiah is talking of the Millennial period itself which is BEFORE what those rev scriptures declare .. and what they declare does NOT match those Isaiah scriptures at all.

Take a closer look at this :

Isaiah 65:17-18

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth : and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

18 "But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy."

See it?

v17 is saying God is going to create a NEW HEAVEN & a NEW EARTH right .. other words, that is his INTENTION .. YET .. lets not presume WHEN He is going to do this just yet because now take notice the language of the very next verse, because it is very telling ..

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth : and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

18 "But ..  << STOP >>  .......  "BUT" what?

18 "But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy

That word "but" is signifying that something else is FIRST going to be explained to them .. which means a CHANGE / ALTERATION from what God was just speaking about .. other words .. switching to ANOTHER SUBJECT from what He was just explaining.

And WHAT does God go on to explain?

The CONDITIONS within a certain place where children will live to 100 years old BEFORE they die etc .. that brother is the Millennial Kingdom where HUMAN Israelites will dwell .. so God is NOT describing the NEW heavens & earth there which comes AFTER the millennium .. BUT .. is describing the RESTORED KINGDOM of Israel.

Remember God said that national Israel would be PROVOKED TO JEALOUSY by the Gentiles?

Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

HOW will He provoke them?

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

BY OUR SALVATION !!!!

Do you really think Israel today is jealous of CHRISTIANS ????????????????????

But they don't even BELIEVE Jesus was the Messiah, nor do they think Christians are God's people either !!

So HOW can THEY be provoked by OUR SALVATION ???

LOL .. see?

They can ONLY be PROVOKED to jealousy AFTER they realise that Jesus is Lord .. NATIONALLY.

And that only happens AFTER Christ returns with HIS RESURRECTED SPIRIT SAINTS .. THAT is HOW God is going to provoke them to jealousy .. not a bad jealousy, but one that INSPIRES them to emulate .. because the resurrected Christian saints have the envious POSITION that was meant for THOSE National Israelites .. but national Israel continually provoked the Lord and lost that place to those believing 'Gentiles' instead.

Which is why it is written .. "The first will be last, and the last will be first" .. the first (to be God's people/ministers) were Israel .. BUT, they were 'cut off' when they weighed HIS PRICE at 30 pieces of silver so they will now become the LAST to find SALVATION  at the resurrection .. which means that the last (to be God's people/ministers) TAKE THEIR PLACE and become the FIRST (to be raised into SPIRIT) whilst the Israeli's must first LEARN of Christ and as  mortal FLESH during the millennium whilst THEIR rulers are those resurrected SPIRIT saints.

So you see, those Isaiah verses can not be what those you have quoted said they were .. they got that one wrong brother .. because there are MANY scriptures revealing that mortals are indeed alive during the millennium, not just Isaiah.

Hope you think on it a bit before defending/answering.

Thanks brother.

Serving.

[Serving]

5 hours ago, WilliamL said:

At this time of Lazarus, Abraham's bosom was in Hades, the abode of all the dead, both the righteous and unrighteous. There was a great division between the two. The Hebrews called the place of the righteous dead Abraham's Bosom; the Greeks called it Elysian Fields. Only after Jesus descended to Hades, preached the Gospel there (as 1 Pet. 3:19, 4:6, and Eph. 4:5 tell us), and "led captivity captive," in that "the gates of Hell/Hades did not prevail against the Church" he established there -- only thereafter did Abraham and the other righteous dead ascend to heaven. So Christ indeed was the firstborn of the dead both in body and in spirit.

Seems like you've changed your view, if you say his body was quickened, that is, he kept his body, although that body was changed. I entirely agree. That is why his body was missing from the tomb.

A Hebrew sage has put it this way, to which I also entirely agree: "In the seventh millennium, the bodies will rise to the level... where the body is entirely subject to the soul. However, in the eighth millennium, the body will be merged with the soul as at the first..."

Before Adam fell, his physical body was malleable, according to the states of his soul. After he fell, his soul was bound within a fixed physical form. When Jesus arose from the dead, his soul began to shape his physical form as at the first, so at times he could be unrecognizable to his former disciples, and at other times he appeared in the form they remembered.

Hi William,

I suppose what I am trying to convey is that Christ's body was reverted back to His original state which in no way resembled His mortal body/features .. and Christ only showed Himself in His mortal form (features) so men could identify Him and say, " YES, we saw Jesus, and He was ALIVE" .. He showed Himself in THAT body ONLY for a witness .. otherwise, no man could declare that the Christ had been risen from the grave if He showed Himself any other way (body).

And as you know, unlike us mortals .. Jesus already had a Spirit body BEFORE He became flesh .. and the descriptions in revelation bear no relation at all to His mortal body .. which is not to say our Lords true appearance/spirit body is likewise restricted by the revelation descriptions either.

Thanks William, 

Serving.

[WilliamL]

4 hours ago, Serving said:

I suppose what I am trying to convey is that Christ's body was reverted back to His original state which in no way resembled His mortal body/features .. and Christ only showed Himself in His mortal form (features) so men could identify Him and say, " YES, we saw Jesus, and He was ALIVE" .. He showed Himself in THAT body ONLY for a witness .. otherwise, no man could declare that the Christ had been risen from the grave if He showed Himself any other way (body).

If he showed his physical body "ONLY for a witness," then why did he show that body so many times, and eat and drink and hang out with his friends? I don't think it was only for a witness.

And you can bet on it that those weren't the last times he will appear in his physical body.

[Serving]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

If he showed his physical body "ONLY for a witness," then why did he show that body so many times, and eat and drink and hang out with his friends? I don't think it was only for a witness.

And you can bet on it that those weren't the last times he will appear in his physical body.

I'd say He showed His 'former self' as He did because that was the Jesus they all knew .. if I had a friend that could shape change his features, it would really irk me if he kept changing his features ets, because that is not normal for us mortals to do .. it would really annoy us after a while .. and we both know Jesus also changed His features (which is not natural for mortals to start with) so even those who did know Him had no clue it was Him whensoever He so desired.

If one can change His features at will, then that tells us that HE decides what features He will take and when and why which itself suggests to me that NO features (when appearing in the flesh) are 'fixed' but instead 'optional' to the circumstances/whims .. and if that is the case, then that suggests that the features/form He is showing is NOT His actual and true form.

I agree that He will again show His human body during the millennium when desired/needed, and quite possibly His features He had when human .. but I do not see the type of features He shows as something that is fixed or conforms to any rules as though He were still human and restricted to the body He was given when flesh .. because He is Spirit once again, whatever body He had when He was Spirit before He came flesh is His TRUE form .. His flesh body was not His true form/features, His spirit body was.

Serving.

 

[WilliamL]

So I see were are essentially on the same page about this, just a matter of semantics. I would only add that "true form," whether spirit, soul, or flesh, is only an outer manifestation/expression of one's inner essence, which is without form. Therefore, all of these forms can and will change according to that which the essence chooses to fit the circumstance.

All forms are garments.

[n2thelight]

On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 8:46 AM, WilliamL said:

So I see were are essentially on the same page about this, just a matter of semantics. I would only add that "true form," whether spirit, soul, or flesh, is only an outer manifestation/expression of one's inner essence, which is without form. Therefore, all of these forms can and will change according to that which the essence chooses to fit the circumstance.

All forms are garments.

We were made in His image so I can't figure out why people think God is just some glob of energy

Angels have came down,and they look like us,and they ate...In other words,though we may be changed we will still have substance,it's a totally different deminsion,and flesh and blood cannot enter that dimension...

 

Christ had a body before He was born of woman