DISPENSATIONALISM, DO WE AGREE TO THIS OR REJECT IT ?

[Ezra]

On 29/01/2016 at 9:48 PM, mevosper said:

Dispensationalism? Reject it. False teaching

If you are a Covenant Theology disciple. Otherwise it is sound teaching held by sound Christians.

[mevosper]

Too much confusion surrounding Dispensationalism to be sound teaching. For example, At what point will the disciples be raptured?

[OldSchool2]

On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 9:21 PM, Ezra said:

1. Dispensationalism is simply a helpful system of interpreting Scripture ( and a system of Hermeneutics which Covenant Theologians hate).

2. What it teaches is that God deals with men at different times and in different ways, although the Gospel never changes, and the plan of salvation is always the same. Many dispensations correspond to the primary covenants in Scripture.

3. Dispensationalists divide human history (as related to God) generally into seven dispensations, although five might be more accurate.

4. Dispensationalists see that God has a distinct eternal plan for the Church, and another for redeemed and restored Israel on earth....

Yet there are problems with Dispensationalism:

"... Dispensationalism is not necessarily heretical ... It will, however, give misleading and wrong interpretations and promote a limited sovereignty view of God, such as He can only do certain things in certain times with only certain people. Of course, any Bible student must realize God is not limited and is totally sovereign! Sometimes Dispensationalism is compared to 'Covenant Theology' and is divided by semantics. Other times it is divided by bad hermeneutics...

"... Dispensationalism also believes in a big distinction between God's plan for Israel and God's plan for the Church. Thus, the church did not start until Pentecost. And some say that the Jews have no role today. An honest reading of Hebrews and Revelation would clear that up! They also see and interpret any Scripture that would otherwise refute their view, as referring to another 'division' of Scripture. As a result, Scripture is not interpreted in its context or as a whole, but as fragmented divisions that applied only to certain times and places...."

http://70030.netministry.com/apps/articles/?articleid=32332&columnid=3844

And according to Descartes, "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts".

 

[mevosper]

I'm of the opinion that all sin is forgiven, except that of the blaspheme of the Holy Ghost. (Matt 12:31). There is no need for him to return to "save the Israelites".

The kingdom of God is not by observation, for the kingdom of God is within (Luk 17:20). Where God is, there is heaven. So when Christ says in Matt 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" , he's talking about the Spirit of God being within and growing within us, in our hearts and in our minds - the new temple being now our body.

Many of the rapture belief will point to Noah and the Ark as an example of how God will "save". But Noah's ark is a type, or a shadow of the real. We also see this same ark in the Ark of the Covenant, where the laws were placed. Now that the laws are written on the fleshy tables of the heart, can you see now what the ark is? Or what Noah's ark and the Ark of the Covenant are representative of? When Noah, his family, and the animals emerged out of the ark, they began to plant and repopulated the "new" earth. This is a type of "new birth". 

When Moses handed down his law, it was necessary in order for God to dwell or "tabernacle" with the Israelites. Of course this is a type or a shadow of the real. This was literally heaven on earth in which the tribe of levi, specifically the seed of Aaron that ministered unto God. They were in direct contact with the God of creation, in a manner of speaking. There was no higher place to attain.

A good question to ask is: Did the Pharisees and religious leaders of the time understand that their exclusive access to heaven was going to changed? Or, put in another way, access was going to be given to all? Of course they were probably under the impression that Israel once again, would be the proverbial creme of the crop.  But this is a fleshly desire and one that will not be attained in the flesh. God is spirit, and spirit is the real.

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, mevosper said:

Too much confusion surrounding Dispensationalism to be sound teaching. For example, At what point will the disciples be raptured?

The Church (all redeemed Jews and Gentiles until the Rapture) can be raptured at any time once "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."  Why should that be considered confusing? 

[mevosper]

Here's what I find confusing.

The disciples have been dead a long time. Are they still waiting for the promise of God that came through Christ, the promise of eternal life? If so, then did Christ not fulfill all? If they are with the Lord now, in his eternal kingdom, why would they want to come back to this earth, this abode of the dead?

[SINNERSAVED]

3 hours ago, OldSchool2 said:

Yet there are problems with Dispensationalism:

"... Dispensationalism is not necessarily heretical ... It will, however, give misleading and wrong interpretations and promote a limited sovereignty view of God, such as He can only do certain things in certain times with only certain people. Of course, any Bible student must realize God is not limited and is totally sovereign! Sometimes Dispensationalism is compared to 'Covenant Theology' and is divided by semantics. Other times it is divided by bad hermeneutics...

"... Dispensationalism also believes in a big distinction between God's plan for Israel and God's plan for the Church. Thus, the church did not start until Pentecost. And some say that the Jews have no role today. An honest reading of Hebrews and Revelation would clear that up! They also see and interpret any Scripture that would otherwise refute their view, as referring to another 'division' of Scripture. As a result, Scripture is not interpreted in its context or as a whole, but as fragmented divisions that applied only to certain times and places...."

http://70030.netministry.com/apps/articles/?articleid=32332&columnid=3844

And according to Descartes, "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts".

 

this is exactly what I was trying to bring to the table, for this is what it is , to place God as dealing with the Israel one way and to change and to deal with the Gentiles a complete different , as if there be a agenda for each, this is not what God has talked to us about through the bible and His teachings, it is about bringing the called out ones to Holiness and salvation to a holy and righteous God, and called believers from all over the world .

it was originated in the israel geographical area , but it was to preach it to the world and they were to be the focus point of getting Gods will accomplish for the world to see, by using a small land to show that it is about Gods power and not the might of the big dominating countries

many fail to see this and want to keep Gods people all separated, but in the end we see that all nations and tribes and tongues are standing around for the glorious blessing of God, and to those that don't believe judgment as they were accounted for ,

there is no Jew or Greek, it is about one people the called out ones for God,

so we have too different and main categories the believer , , and then the non -believer,  all fits into one or the other,

I rest my case  and may God open our eyes to see the love that He has bestowed on you and me and people around the world from every walk of life,

[SINNERSAVED]

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 7:41 PM, Ezra said:

If you are a Covenant Theology disciple. Otherwise it is sound teaching held by sound Christians.

I will have to give you this scripture then and it shall clear this up, as i have said KJV

 Numbers 15:15   One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

  Numbers 15:16   One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

scriptural and what God said that the stranger or alien or Gentile will be under the same as the jew, there is no difference and one God, under the same word  and statues, sop it is clear ?

American standard says

15 'As for the assembly, there shall be ⁹one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD.

×

References for Numbers 15:15

• Cross References

• 444 15:15 - Num 9:14 ; 15:29

16 'There is to be ¹⁰one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.' "

×

References for Numbers 15:16

• Cross References

• 445 15:16 - Lev 24:22

 

 

[Ezra]

2 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

I will have to give you this scripture then and it shall clear this up, as i have said KJV

Why are you referencing the Old Covenant when we are in the New Covenant, and the future of both the Church and Israel is under the New Covenant?  So this is what happens when Scriptures are taken out of context and misapplied.  If you want clarity study Romans chapters 9-11.

[SINNERSAVED]

1 minute ago, Ezra said:

Why are you referencing the Old Covenant when we are in the New Covenant, and the future of both the Church and Israel is under the New Covenant?  So this is what happens when Scriptures are taken out of context and misapplied.  If you want clarity study Romans chapters 9-11.

this is showing that God himself is joining all people to Him and to be one as the called out one for Him, Now in the new testament we have peter in acts 10 , learning the vision, of its interpretation, which is consistant to the gentiles being one with the jews under the same God with the same ,ways as there is no difference between alien and jew, and that, it was not God that separated jew from Gentile , but it was the jewish leadership that did that, to separate what man was making as law, and what God is saying is His word, it is clear, and not hard to understand this?

for many are taking what the jewish leaders were making as law that was not of God word,and so we have clarity,